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General/Other - Sub-Zero 3 Variations of Sub-Zero discussion

Qwark28

Qwark28

Joker waiting room
Imperium said:
Cryo is going to be really, really good because of that overhead hammer. That's a huge tool that isn't available elsewhere with sub. Yeah the clone gives a ton of utility, but between the overhead hammer, the great uppercut, the air hammer, and that devastating dagger ender, I'm not sure Grandmaster will actually be the default choice for sub. Once I heard Unbreakable needed bar to get that sweet damage reduction, I lost interest in it for the most part. It may still be good, but I'll have to see it to believe it.
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Don't get too excited, the hammer is meh.
 
xXstealthflameXx

xXstealthflameXx

Finding a Main
sIllverback said:
I don't think hes supposed to. Thats the defensive variation, so I wouldnt be surprised if they limited his numbers.
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A defensive variation that is supposed to make the opponent hang himself. If the parry adds a damage reduction and his damage is already low, then his punishes are ridiculously weak. Idk if it does though.
 
Rickyraws

Rickyraws

This mean you don't like me?
xXstealthflameXx said:
A defensive variation that is supposed to make the opponent hang himself. If the parry adds a damage reduction and his damage is already low, then his punishes are ridiculously weak. Idk if it does though.
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Parry adds damage reduction?

Are you sure you aren't mixing up the parry and the ice aura?

Ice aura negates chip.
MB Ice aura gives him a damage reduction (received)

Parry doesn't reduce anyone's damage.
 
xXstealthflameXx

xXstealthflameXx

Finding a Main
Rickyraws said:
Parry adds damage reduction?

Are you sure you aren't mixing up the parry and the ice aura?

Ice aura negates chip.
MB Ice aura gives him a damage reduction (received)

Parry doesn't reduce anyone's damage.
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I'm talking about causing Sub to deal reduced damage because it's a free combo. Much like Green Arrow in Injustice who had reduced damage automatically from his ice arrow. I said idk if it does though.
 
Lockhart sX

Lockhart sX

Noob
So what are the benefits of his variations? So far i've been studying Cryomancer and came up with some sick combo's; I just love how aggressive he can get in that variation. (Aggressive is my particular playstyle). I love his f4,2,1+2 reset. b,2 (low) into hammer/ex hammer is a nasty mixup. What's everyone coming up with for his other variations? BTW nothing like chucking ice clones
 
Desperdicio

Desperdicio

Tell me, do you bleed?
Lockhart sX said:
So what are the benefits of his variations? So far i've been studying Cryomancer and came up with some sick combo's; I just love how aggressive he can get in that variation. (Aggressive is my particular playstyle). I love his f4,2,1+2 reset. b,2 (low) into hammer/ex hammer is a nasty mixup. What's everyone coming up with for his other variations? BTW nothing like chucking ice clones
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You should check Tom Brady's guides, if you haven't, already: Unbreakable, Cryomancer, and Grandmaster.
 
NRF CharlieMurphy

NRF CharlieMurphy

Kindergarten Meta
Unbreakable absolutely wrecks characters without a teleport wakeup.

and f4 ice aura is stupid good. People think it is their turn to push buttons when in fact... it is not.

Grandmaster is a pressure machine. The clone is obnoxiously good. I mean... OBNOXIOUSLY good.

Cryomancer is a powerhouse as well. Once i started using exPound to anti air crossups.... yeah. The hammer is infact not meh, and a good option when people get wake up happy (the animation is so damn long that most single hit ex attacks lose armor).

Couple this with his fast lateral speeds and good jump and massive reaching d4. I'm in love.
 
TheIrishFGCguy

TheIrishFGCguy

Pew pew pew
So far I'm favouring Grandmaster, but mainly just because I can play kind of similar to how I did in MK9. Clone still acts as a good defensive tool mid screen and a nasty pressure tool in the corner. I also like the new property of projectiles breaking the clone, but on the other hand I'm sad that we can no longer create a clone mid jump. :[ I used to have so much fun forcing people to sit down. The only disappointing thing I can find with Grandmaster at the moment is midscreen damage, I can't even break 30%.

Cyromancer seems really solid if you're more of an aggressive player. Some really good strings that can add to combos and get good damage, the forward 4,2,1+3 in particular. I haven't really messed around with it that much yet but I have heard that the EX hammer can be nasty and I know his uppercut in this variation is hilariously good. Huge damage, huge range, and it apparently trades a lot with things that it should really lose out to.

As for Unbreakable, I have barely touched it at all. I tried it for about 20 minutes and didn't really think that it has much use. The reduced chip is cool but not exactly game changing, and the other benefit to this variation (I forget the name, it's the giant ice shield) just seemed like a worse version of the clone, but I could be really wrong and ignorant on that due to my lack of knowledge.
 
NRF CharlieMurphy

NRF CharlieMurphy

Kindergarten Meta
my quick notes so far

Cryomancer is kinda ... bleh. He def. gets the most damage, but lacks in other things. He HAS to be a good whiff punisher and use his meter wisely.

Grandmaster. Very good. Clone creates situations that are very hard to deal with. Smashing clone to get advantage is nuts.

Unbreakable. Probably the easiest to get wins with on pepole who don't know the game. The parry just smashes wakeups. f4~ice aura is retard strong. People want to push buttons here, they eat a full combo.

I'm still struggling with netting good damage off air freezes... but i'll find it eventually.

ex ICE BURST is a great AA move on cross ups.

Cryomancer can put you in a world of hurt on a good read after a f4 2 1+3. Condition with ex Hammer. a normal 30 bnb into an ex Hammer bnb is roughly 65%
 
Jedah

Jedah

Fallen God
Unbreakables damage so far is quite low....

So its hard to really punish people with the parry i think this variation needs some good combo enders.

In a game where pressure dominates taking reduced chip damage really isn`t what anyone should be aiming for. The parry aspect adds so much pressure on the opponent especially in the corner and in block strings. Sub zeros should get used to doing typical Strings into freeze and after freeze immediately Ice aura up and then proceed to combo for example:

B+1,2 x Ice blast ---> Ice aura then jump in combo that way you have the aura after your combo is done and applying pressure.
 
TheIrishFGCguy

TheIrishFGCguy

Pew pew pew
How does the parry add pressure during block strings? Isn't it like -1000000 on whiff? As long as they don't just try and mash buttons they can get a free full combo on you, or am I missing something? Apologies because I have barely tried out that variation. I'm aware that the parry can be nasty on your opponents wakeup, but from my experience it was crappy during blockstrings because they can just block the string, wait for the parry, and punish.

The chip damage reduction is great though and really helps with characters that can mess you up with full screen pressure. It's not exactly the perfect answer to strong zoners who Sub Zero typically has problems with, but it sure helps.
 
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NRF CharlieMurphy

NRF CharlieMurphy

Kindergarten Meta
TheIrishFGCguy said:
How does the parry add pressure during block strings? Isn't it like -1000000 on whiff? As long as they don't just try and mash buttons they can get a free full combo on you, or am I missing something? Apologies because I have barely tried out that variation. I'm aware that the parry can be nasty on your opponents wakeup, but from my experience it was crappy during blockstrings because they can just block the string, wait for the parry, and punish.

The chip damage reduction is great though and really helps with characters that can mess you up with full screen pressure. It's not exactly the perfect defence to strong zoners who Sub Zero typically has problems with, but it sure helps.
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SZ in this game doesn't struggle at all against zoners.

He is alluding to the fact that Unbreakable is mean in that it doesn't always let your opponent push buttons. The damage is low... but you'll find MORE opportunities to get said damage if you're savvy.

btw... f4~ice Aura is + on block and is a good trap on block when you KNOW people should be blocking. It lets you get the aura up and then continue on.
 
Qwark28

Qwark28

Joker waiting room
NRF CharlieMurphy said:
SZ in this game doesn't struggle at all against zoners.

He is alluding to the fact that Unbreakable is mean in that it doesn't always let your opponent push buttons. The damage is low... but you'll find MORE opportunities to get said damage if you're savvy.

btw... f4~ice Aura is + on block and is a good trap on block when you KNOW people should be blocking. It lets you get the aura up and then continue on.
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Lab testing has shown that f4 ice aura is not +, more like -4.
 
TheIrishFGCguy

TheIrishFGCguy

Pew pew pew
I'm pretty confident that Sub still has huge issues with zoners like Kenshi's because his zoning completely craps on everything sub can do, particularly possessed Kenshi and the other variation that uses the telepathic clones like MK9 (forget the name). I mean that type of zoner, someone who has zoning tools for every situation, not any character with a fireball. It's like MK9, you're stuck blocking and hoping they mistime something so you can advance. Best you can hope for is a trade.

Serious question, I'm not trying to debate or argue, but what can we do against that type of play that we couldn't do in MK9? I was on a decent win streak yesterday and I came up against a competent Kenshi and I was just getting destroyed as I tried to be patient and get in.
Cryomancer has nothing for it, Grandmaster has the new clone trade mechanics but that doesn't help when the projectiles are bypassing the clone, and Unbreakable has the chip damage reduction which is helpful but it doesn't really advance the fight in your favour or change the strategy vs that type of play.
 
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STK

STK

Beso de Muerte + Fantasía Oscura
Where is the math that says f4 bd1 is plus? Tryimg to understand this variation.
 
I GOT HANDS

I GOT HANDS

Official Infrared Scorp wid gapless Wi-Fi pressure
So in regards to Cryomancer, he's pretty unpopular in comparison to Grandmaster. I get that it's mostly because Clones are so awesome, but is Cryomancer bad in its own merits? Is there another character out there who completely outclasses CryoSub for the rushdown role, or does he have his own merits to justify him in this role over some of the other rushdown characters out there? Just wondering if anyone can help me out a bit here
 
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