SaJa
FH_FenriR
Absolutly because Shazam's forward dash are godlike. Now if we can run to them and catch them from a "safe distance" with that unblockable grab, it looks great.
DP'ing in Ibuki's vortex is only unsafe if she reads the dp or tries to bait it and does a safe jump setup specifically for baiting out dp's. So because Shazam actually has limited use of his vortex and has to use it sparingly it isn't good? Unlike Ibuki who is about to lose hers because it was so broken. I'm not comparing the vortexes themselves, more so just the general idea. Just because you can't use the vortex for free doesn't mean it isn't great.
To bad aquaman doesn't give a shit about Shazam's vortex and just shields every option possible. Also, its hard to compare a wake-up vortex in this game with one in street fighter. You are normally only baiting out one type of move in SF like an unsafe dp. This game has characters with like 3 or 4 options to choose from on wake up that could lead to full combos at times.
Fair point, and also Aquaman doesn't give a shit about anything ever lol.
As for the vortex, good luck timing that right, and if you do you're better than me. (Not saying much tbh though I don't really play that game that much yet lol) I'm going to be going in circles here so we can agree to disagree. I understand you're points, but he really doesn't need any better footsie tools. If you were to give him anything of the sort I would say make 22 positive on block. It would get rid of the tick he has on block, but it would open up more options and you would be able to make people respect your pressure enough to delay tick throws.
It just feels like the character was built around the vortex but the other characters wake-ups are so strong that the core of his game becomes irrelevant. What else does he really have? His normals really aren't that great since they don't have much range and a command grab that only hits standing or only hits crouching will only get you so far. 2, 2 HM is okay until people know that they can backdash and all you get is a situation they get out of your pressure free, take about 10% from psycho crusher (don't quote me on percentage) or use a meter to keep your pressure going. Everything seems extremely high risk with a pretty small reward and everything costs a meter. Hopefully the patch makes the rewards for smart play better with the extra damage.
Well, the only way to escape shazam's vortex is to wakeup actually, so if they don't you grab, if they do you can punish them, this is also a kind of 50/50. His issue was to not making good damage with 1 meter, and doing nothing meterless so the risk/reward was actually not good enough to try the 50/50 over and over. Now it looks legit.
That isn't true, you can't DP out of her vortex at all.
Read previous post.
This 50/50 is still high risk / low reward once they know what Shazam can do. You still have to pay to have that situation again and nothing guaranteed comes from it other than having the situation. If you guess wrong you with atlas torpedo you take a full combo from the punish, if you guess right you get like 10% and a 50/50 on wake up vs characters with like 3 wake up options that you have to read to get damage. So many reads for so little.
It depends who you are fighting against. There are some characters that can still punish. And do we know yet how much damage his bnb does? Also that 50/50 vs superman doesn't work if he does his upward grab move on wake up (I don't know the name). It escapes both options and he recovers to fast afterwards.
They did a combo off of raw HM that went HM mb, b3, j2, f223xxhm and that did 37%, so I'd guess replacing that j2 with a j3 would net him ~40%. The b23 one went b23, f223xxhm mb, j2, d3 = 35%, just b23, f223xxhm was like 26% I believe.
I mentioned superman because you said it worked vs superman. You can check the recovery of the move. A naked HM or d2 isn't fast enough if you attempt to do MB F3 or HM on wake up. I was directly replying to the 50/50 scenario you described.
Considerably less I think.
Yeah looked like trait combo did about 10-12% less
Back dash doesn't work on wakeup against HM, if you are talking about his wakeup I think jump in punish him (Flash jump in 2 does, and yet it sucks). About Superman, he isn't good char for nothing but is it the only example you've got ?
Ji2 crossup is also an option.
http://www.testyourmight.com/threads/wake-up-punish-guide.34499/
