General/Other - Erron Black Justice For Erron Black

ienjoywinning said:

If you have any sort of good reaction you shouldn't get hit by it but regardless I don't care that it's 23f what I do care about is is his hitbox issues (read what I posted earlier). I don't think they should make it faster anyways , they can buff him in other areas and it'll make him good

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I've posted only here mainly because at some point 21122 said erron's overhead is useless, which i disagree, the string was a overhead low and advances EB forward, it was impossible to backdash out of it in 50-50 situations and ppl trying to space it would often get hit by it.
Neither should be comparable with ermac's overhead which only combos if he cancels with a launcher, which are punishable, i'm not saying ermac is fine, because that character is also ridiculous, but still...

Also, not in agreement that any character in this game should have a mid under 11 frames specially if it comes from a string asking for a 9f mid or 10 its going to be super OP against the poking game MKXL offers, which i personally vowed many times that i don't like it.

20 or 21 frames for the OH was a good nerf I guess, f4 is 24 frames... anyways I have to say that Ermac's f4 looks slowers than it seems.

Making b1 a mid would have been great and also 112 changing it to 12f and making it safe -5, -1 or even 0, +1 or +2 would make the string usefull, since for me I don't even use it.

Pretty much you can interrupt 11b3, b33, 11 and a lot more strings it's all bout matchup knowledge. You can also armor through SOS3 (Gunslinger) so... it ain't that EB can't be punished at all...

EDIT: NRS just nerfs EB because of God SonicFox and he will still rekt with any character he plays with. Seems that they don't get it.

Eddy Wang said:

I've posted only here mainly because at some point 21122 said erron's overhead is useless, which i disagree, the string was a overhead low and advances EB forward, it was impossible to backdash out of it in 50-50 situations and ppl trying to space it would often get hit by it.
Neither should be comparable with ermac's overhead which only combos if he cancels with a launcher, which are punishable, i'm not saying ermac is fine, because that character is also ridiculous, but still...

Also, not in agreement that any character in this game should have a mid under 11 frames specially if it comes from a string asking for a 9f mid or 10 its going to be super OP against the poking game MKXL offers, which i personally vowed many times that i don't like it.

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I never said that it was useless or compared it to ermac though. In fact I was gonna post saying that it shouldn't be compared to ermacs because they're completely different. As of right now I think if they fix the consistency issue he has with the f1 not connecting then it'll be fine. However he does some need some buffs in other areas.

Eddy Wang said:

I've posted only here mainly because at some point 21122 said erron's overhead is useless, which i disagree, the string was a overhead low and advances EB forward, it was impossible to backdash out of it in 50-50 situations and ppl trying to space it would often get hit by it.
Neither should be comparable with ermac's overhead which only combos if he cancels with a launcher, which are punishable, i'm not saying ermac is fine, because that character is also ridiculous, but still...

Also, not in agreement that any character in this game should have a mid under 11 frames specially if it comes from a string asking for a 9f mid or 10 its going to be super OP against the poking game MKXL offers, which i personally vowed many times that i don't like it.

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One of the changes being is making b1 a mid (11f) but maybe making it 0 on block or +1 or something because a +2 on block mid that jails into ex sg would be too much I think or maybe not. But regardless it has almost no range at all , you have to be point blank to land it. I think it would be fair. That's the only universal change I have in mind , both marksman and outlaw need a few very small changes that would make them better.

Red Reaper said:

People get hit by that because they forget/don't know it exists..
By the time they register that i's not a dash or a jump, they have already gotten hit.....

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Yeah but they are still getting hit by a 33F move. Which means the same could happen with Erron's F1 (I think he should've gotten something else tho)

Erron is a prime example of why you can't take a character who is built around setplay, significantly neuter their setplay to appease personal distaste and say "yup, job done."

It's not impossible to get hit with a 23f overhead, but I think it would've been in better interests if they just converted his F1 into a fast mid with better frames in general.

Gunslinger probably does enough to keep Erron serviceable but LBSH, that was a fluke/coincidence in line with the system changes. Let's not forget it had to get buffed to get the utility it does and was otherwise his worst variation by a mile during launch window.

21122 said:

While Ermac's OH barely got touched WTF? Its so god damn slow, if you get hit by it, you should quit the game.
.

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Forget Ermac, why is it okay for SuB2 Zero to keep that bitchass overhead? (on top of all the tick throws)

STRYKIE said:

Erron is a prime example of why you can't take a character who is built around setplay, significantly neuter their setplay to appease personal distaste and say "yup, job done."

It's not impossible to get hit with a 23f overhead, but I think it would've been in better interests if they just converted his F1 into a fast mid with better frames in general.

Gunslinger probably does enough to keep Erron serviceable but LBSH, that was a fluke/coincidence in line with the system changes. Let's not forget it had to get buffed to get the utility it does and was otherwise his worst variation by a mile during launch window.

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Pretty much this. F1 becoming a mid would have boosted EB's neutral game a ton and would have helped one of his biggest problems, lack of a good mid. If they sped it up by one or two frames and slapped the mid tag on it we'd be good to go. He'd lose the mix but with a tool like that he could focus more on the stagger game and tick throws.

CrazyFingers said:

Pretty much this. F1 becoming a mid would have boosted EB's neutral game a ton and would have helped one of his biggest problems, lack of a good mid. If they sped it up by one or two frames and slapped the mid tag on it we'd be good to go. He'd lose the mix but with a tool like that he could focus more on the stagger game and tick throws.

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??????
He already has 2 14f mids.

thlityoursloat said:

??????
He already has 2 14f mids.

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True but their hit boxes aren't great. F1 is an advancing normal that covers a lot of distance.

They could just buff F3 instead, a range extension and extra hit advantage for more consistent combos would be nice.
I honestly can't imagine EB without his OH starter, he's already had his EX SG pressure nuked and his tick grabs aren't as good.

thlityoursloat said:

??????
He already has 2 14f mids.

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That lead into nothing practically nothing. And one of them is +1 on hit only.

thlityoursloat said:

They could just buff F3 instead, a range extension and extra hit advantage for more consistent combos would be nice.
I honestly can't imagine EB without his OH starter, he's already had his EX SG pressure nuked and his tick grabs aren't as good.

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Honestly any buff to EB's mid situation would be a god send for the character.

21122 said:

That lead into nothing practically nothing. And one of them is +1 on hit only.

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F24 is hit confirmable (mostly in the corner anyways), and I'd rather they just buff those 2 mids instead of take away his only OH starter.

I know what happened...

SAVE ERRON

If someone can do a frame test on f1, please do, I feel the data is incorrect. Seems way slower. Somebody alluded to it earlier, but the real issue is the animation is easily recognizable and is not in any way similar to his other normals. Where some other characters with slower overheads have moves that animate or move similar to other moves in their toolset. The active collision of f1 seems so late to me as well, I've just been encountering people crouch blocking me and just fuzzying when they see the overhead. Other slower overheads work yes, but it depends on the tools around them to be effective. Marksman is useless now, no neutral at all. It was bad before, now his neutral is completely none existent. You cannot spend a single ounce of stamina on run in the neutral because you will be drained of it before you can do any of his old cancel strings.

F1 was great at stopping ppl from mashing down pokes 24/7. It could be hit-confirmed, had good range and could be made relatively safe. If it were up to me, I would revert back the start-up frames and just make it a mid.

ATP2014 said:

F1 was great at stopping ppl from mashing down pokes 24/7. It could be hit-confirmed, had good range and could be made relatively safe. If it were up to me, I would revert back the start-up frames and just make it a mid.

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If it was reverted and made a mid he would already have a mid in f3 that covers just as much range and is faster then f1's 16 frames. Also, f1 is his only overhead option outside of f4 which leads to nothing. Making f1 mid would eliminate all his mixups and people would just crouch block all day, and fuzzy the occasional coin shot gimmick.

Marksman is by far the coolest variation and is worthless...what a waste :/

#ErronBlackLivesMatter

CrazyFingers said:

True but their hit boxes aren't great. F1 is an advancing normal that covers a lot of distance.

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21122 already does that just fine. What he does need is a mid to stop people from freely poking after anything they do or you do and get properly punished for it .

The oh was slowdown wayyyyy to much. Honestly i think a gap inbetween the f1 string is more justifiable. Similar to sonya

The Farmer said:

If it was reverted and made a mid he would already have a mid in f3 that covers just as much range and is faster then f1's 16 frames. Also, f1 is his only overhead option outside of f4 which leads to nothing. Making f1 mid would eliminate all his mixups and people would just crouch block all day, and fuzzy the occasional coin shot gimmick.

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F1 can be hitconfirmed though, with f3 you have to commit at all times. Plus f1 was a great footsie tool to use against ppl using d1/d3/d4 in neutral.

The 50/50 aspect of Erron Black has been whatever for a long time imo. The command grab mixup is a lot scarier now with no armored launchers. I'll take better neutral over high/low mixups.

Erron was and still is OP.