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General/Other - Erron Black Justice For Erron Black

21122

21122

Noob
Aside from Gunslinger, the changes NRS made to Erron Black are grossly unfair compared to other characters. Now before someone comments (thats if this gets any replies) please don't tell me about your character nerfs, idc, this is about my boy Erron Black.

1. Overhead slowdowns

Characters had OH's slowdowned to around 18-20 frames. Which is respectable, if you are on your A game, you can react to it.

Erron Blacks MAIN normal (F1) got nerfed to 23 FRAMES from 16. While Ermac's OH barely got touched WTF? Its so god damn slow, if you get hit by it, you should quit the game.

Erron basically lost his main 50/50 ( F1/B3) which I think is fine with the new direction this game is going. BUT he got nothing in return for it! He already had lousy mids to begin with, and now his only good overhead is useless! Only "decent" one, and thats pushing it, is F3.F1 is too slow to use as a footsie to whiff punish now as well.
Oh and did I mention? IT'S STILL -14 AND HAS A GAP.

2. Marksman is dead because of the stamina changes. He was already a low tier cancel character. Pretty much all his cancels left him negative. Who cares about the ones that left him plus, you just D1 and call it a day. His zoning is a freaking joke as well lmao.

3. Outlaw is totally trash now. They didn't adjust ANY of his sword moves that EB players were complaining about. All they did was remove armour from DB4 (sand toss re-stand), made it -5 if you ex it (-20 non ex) on block and called it a day. WHY would you ever EX DB4? There is literally no point, it doesn't re-stand airborne opponents, it only jails from B32 (every other string you can just armour out), Its slow as hell (no point in using it to catch people running at you). In every situation, its better to use ex-sand that leaves you plus and is 2 hitting.

He has so many variation specific sword moves that are totally worthless AND they did absolutely nothing about them.

They could of at least made F2 (his other mid) 9-10 frames. It would of helped Outlaw as his F22 leaves him at +1 or +2.

I honestly believe NRS seriously just applied the universal changes to Erron to make him fit in the new game and called it a day. No thought went to any of his changes.
 
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DownfouralitY

DownfouralitY

Noob
I still feel like Gunslinger is really good regardless of the OH nerf, the stamina changes help out the variation a bit and he has all around solid tools. Outlaw and Marksman should've gotten something for sure though, I agree.
 
JDM

JDM

Noob
Gunslinger is still really good but idk about the other two. He kinda got fucked on his changes for those two variations. I guess Marksman isn't flat out awful since he still gets safe 50/50s and okay zoning but no real reason to use it instead of Gunlinger.
 
neveradestroyer

neveradestroyer

Noob
It's the curse of the character of the champion. NRS saw SonicFox kicking asses with him, so it make him the target of the almighty nerf hammer curse.
 
P3irce

P3irce

Noob
As a side note Gunnslinger has gotten dumbed down by these nerfs / patch change in general. 2,1,1,2,2 or any other string into low guns for chip and meterbuild is so dumb given that you won't really punish it for 13% . Gunslingers still great but not for the right reasons imo
 
21122

21122

Noob
P3irce said:
As a side note Gunnslinger has gotten dumbed down by these nerfs / patch change in general. 2,1,1,2,2 or any other string into low guns for chip and meterbuild is so dumb given that you won't really punish it for 13% . Gunslingers still great but not for the right reasons imo
Click to expand...
Not unless the opponent has a 2 armoured move.
 
ienjoywinning

ienjoywinning

Noob
Tweedy said:
"you should quit the game"

I guarantee if you played a high level Erron you would get hit by it. 23 frames is not that slow. How do Takeda players ever land a B2? Sure it's technically reactable, but when you're thinking about other things, it'll land.
Click to expand...
Just incase someone didn't tell you yet the move literally has inconsistent hitbox issues as in if I get a slide on hit and run up f1 even if theyre at the point where they should be hit they don't. It literally goes through them and only the low connects. I can link you a gif someone posted on twitter if you want. My main issue about is not that it's 23 frames but that everything after it is unsafe pretty much outside of marksman , you can armor all of his options , you can jump out if you think he'll do ex sg you jump and you'll get hit for 3% °and able to tech roll and go back to neutral. I don't want it to be faster but I want it to have consistency if they fix the hit issue then I don't think it'll be that bad
 
G

Gofer_MK

Noob
While Gunslinger is great, the other two variations suffer. Marksman could use some improvements to his zoning. Outlaw needs his sword attacks to work, loss of armor on ST is something that needs a compensation. His OH should be max 19-20f, and ffs give him a mid.
 
ienjoywinning

ienjoywinning

Noob
Eddy Wang said:
scorpion's F4 overhead is 25 frames, and ppl are hit by it.

For gods sake, stahp calling your 23f overhead useless.
Click to expand...
If you have any sort of good reaction you shouldn't get hit by it but regardless I don't care that it's 23f what I do care about is is his hitbox issues (read what I posted earlier). I don't think they should make it faster anyways , they can buff him in other areas and it'll make him good
 
Lokheit

Lokheit

Noob
Isn't asking for justice for an Outlaw the same than asking him to be nerfed? :DOGE

In a more serious note, at least the variation that I have some experience with (Marksman) could use some improvements (can't really say too much about the others).

I don't think Marksman will suffer as much from the RC nerf as his RC was more about making the 50/50 safe which he still can. Johhny and Liu for example focus a lot on constant pressure without true 50/50 and Marksman has a tick throw which is a rare combination with run cancels.

He suffers from his OH getting slower though, all OH into Low strings got a similar treatment and it's true that online warriors abused the string a lot, but probably 20-21 frames would've been enough.

His zoning which is what he supposedly really brings is a bit lackluster, the projectile is a mid and does good damage but that's about it, he could use a bit of speed on his zoning tools, specially on his getaway shots that won't even combo from strings. If that attack was made a lot more faster it would help a huge lot this variation, specially if some strings would even jail into it.

The positive side is that opponents won't punish the gap on his rifle smash as much so he can use it to make things safe but it's still a really slow tool.
 
tatterbug4

tatterbug4

Bug of tater's
Honestly it may be 23 frames but I'm sure it's still pretty much unreactable. They nerfed triborgs over head to like 21 or 23 frames as well but just because of the animation of it is hard to react to.

However I feel the run canceling nerfs hit marksman hard
 
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