Strategy Ares Strategy, Set-Ups, and Mind Games

[Breakin Wordzz]

Everybody can do big damage in the corner...being able to do it meterless is pretty meaningless in a game that is so meter-plenty.

How much more wrong can you be? It is the exact opposite. Ares can only zone when he has meter, so when he does 57% meter less in the corner and 40% metless midscreen he can use his meter more to zone, resets, and push blocking. And not everyone does big damage in the corner.

 

[WaywardStranger]

Why would you ever do b21?

• As an alternative to b23, in the case of an Ares player who regularly uses b23 on block. B23 cannot be canceled and is disadvantageous for Ares when blocked; B21 fits the opposite description. Opponent will think twice before taking advantage of blocked b23 if you mix in the occasional b21~...
• The string jails Ares' opponent on block. Thus b21~df1 is always safe (+4 on block, builds meter; creates far God Smack setup on hit). This also means b21~d4 0r b21~df1 mb is a true high/low mixup.
• Invisible high/low mixups
• Its cool way to lead into Super (the "Super-combo freeze" initiates before you see the second hit of the string, its crazy but it works)

Theres probably more ways b21 could be useful. Sometimes I wonder if we're playing the same character.

 

[The Gabriel]

How much more wrong can you be? It is the exact opposite. Ares can only zone when he has meter, so when he does 57% meter less in the corner and 40% metless midscreen he can use his meter more to zone, resets, and push blocking. And not everyone does big damage in the corner.

He can only zone when he has meter, which is bad. He cannot do high damage bnb's except in the corner, which is bad. The good characters in this game have neither of those problems.

 

[Breakin Wordzz]

how is superman going to zone without meter? Please man i thought 47% one bar was good. my bad i guess. i didnt know that every character could do 80% one bar.

 

[The Gabriel]

• As an alternative to b23, in the case of an Ares player who regularly uses b23 on block. B23 cannot be canceled and is disadvantageous for Ares when blocked; B21 fits the opposite description. Opponent will think twice before taking advantage of blocked b23 if you mix in the occasional b21~...
• The string jails Ares' opponent on block. Thus b21~df1 is always safe (+4 on block, builds meter; creates far God Smack setup on hit). This also means b21~d4 0r b21~df1 mb is a true high/low mixup.
• Invisible high/low mixups
• Its cool way to lead into Super (the "Super-combo freeze" initiates before you see the second hit of the string, its crazy but it works)

Theres probably more ways b21 could be useful. Sometimes I wonder if we're playing the same character.

I don't see where you are ever using b2 in the neutral against a good opponent, and in the limited times you do use it (knockdown, wake up teleport) it's because you know it's going to land, not as a block string.

 

[The Gabriel]

how is superman going to zone without meter? Please man i thought 47% one bar was good. my bad i guess. i didnt know that every character could do 80% one bar.

Superman can zone his ass off without meter thanks to his mobility and zero recovery projectile. As I already said, Ares get's barely 30% off of his most common starter, whereas Superman, Black Adam etc get 40-50%

 

[Breakin Wordzz]

I don't see where you are ever using b2 in the neutral against a good opponent, and in the limited times you do use it (knockdown, wake up teleport) it's because you know it's going to land, not as a block string.

I guess you didnt read the post i made.............

 

[Breakin Wordzz]

if superman's zoning is a problem then you need to level up.

 

[The Gabriel]

I guess you didnt read the post i made.............

The one about the crappy j2, not neutral game b21? Yeah I'm really going to pass up 3d2/3d4 when I actually land a j2 in favor of b21...

if superman's zoning is a problem then you need to level up.

LOL!

Aaand that's enough arguing with a 15 yr old for the day

 

[Colonel-Gilgamesh]

If we're talking air to air, j1 is way better for that. Uber fast at 5 frames and a nice horizontal hitbox.


Ares could use a few buffs for sure though. For one, his normals are kinda crap for the most part, especially compared to others who can just swing away with them (Superman f2, GL b1 or whatever the slide is, WW f2, Batman b2 3 string, pretty much anything Nightwing and Aquaman have, etc). You'd think for a guy able to summon all his weapons, he'd add them into some of his normals. It's not TERRIBLE that he doesn't have any; Netherrealm realized how important his teleport is and adding in good normals would just make him a bit too uber. Still, I'd like to see more moves he can use in neutral and footsies. Speaking of teleport, they made Ares's mobility crap to account for this, but by making TP the only way in, people just straight up expect it and it really hurts. But in all honesty, the biggest problem Ares has is how conditional he is. Best mixups, combos, and zoning all require his trait, a trait that may not have a large cooldown, but enough for it to be a problem.

 

[MetalPete]

Just remember teleport behind, d1, and rising sword. I see it coming every single time, but I can't seem to block it fast enough.

I think I am going start practicing with this guy. He has some nice combos.

 

[Breakin Wordzz]

The one about the crappy j2, not neutral game b21? Yeah I'm really going to pass up 3d2/3d4 when I actually land a j2 in favor of b21...


LOL!

Aaand that's enough arguing with a 15 yr old for the day

no if you do d1 MB dark engery they HAVE TO RESPECT IT. so you do a d1 then b21. Please stop, do you even play ares? Superman zoning isen't even a problem.

 

[Colonel-Gilgamesh]

no if you do d1 MB dark engery they HAVE TO RESPECT IT. so you do a d1 then b21. Please stop, do you even play ares? Superman zoning isen't even a problem.

He's saying Superman is a good zoner in general I think, rather than just vs Ares, whose whole schtick is anti-zoning really. Also, they can just jab you out of d1~d4 or MB Dark Energy. And d1 is -4 on block, so feinting them with d1 then b2 is probably a bad idea. Ares relies on the opponent being scared too much for his own good.

 

[Breakin Wordzz]

He's saying Superman is a good zoner in general I think, rather than just vs Ares, whose whole schtick is anti-zoning really. Also, they can just jab you out of d1~d4 or MB Dark Energy. And d1 is -4 on block, so feinting them with d1 then b2 is probably a bad idea. Ares relies on the opponent being scared too much for his own good.

You can't poke out of d1 MB DE the hit trades but doesnt stop the DE i tested it believe me.

 

[Colonel-Gilgamesh]

You can't poke out of d1 MB DE the hit trades but doesnt stop the DE i tested it believe me.

I just did my own testing and could jab him out of it using Doomsday's 7 frame d1, Aquaman's d1, etc. You're thinking of non MB high fireballs, which will trade or catch most people, but if they d1, there's no issue since they'll duck it. If you want to see if something is safe or not, go into training mode vs Lex and set him to always block and then reversal with Corp Charge. Computer will act on first possible frame with a 6 frame move that has massive range. Most jabs are only slower by a frame or two anyways.

 

[Breakin Wordzz]

I just did my own testing and could jab him out of it using Doomsday's 7 frame d1, Aquaman's d1, etc. You're thinking of non MB high fireballs, which will trade or catch most people, but if they d1, there's no issue since they'll duck it. If you want to see if something is safe or not, go into training mode vs Lex and set him to always block and then reversal with Corp Charge. Computer will act on first possible frame with a 6 frame move that has massive range. Most jabs are only slower by a frame or two anyways.

I just tested it, i put lex charge reversal, the MB DE would trade with the charge. the thing is tho you can delay the MB DE so you have to do it very fast. But lets be honest there is probably a 2 frame window at the most even if you could poke out.

 

[Colonel-Gilgamesh]

I think that's a little generous, but whatever. In any case poking after d1 is a big concern and seeing as he gets most of his power from d1 into something, it's kind of a big issue. Afterall, they can just MB armor through whatever you may want to do, and that's quickly becoming a very powerful, very damaging tool. I was able to get MB out every time against Ares, so even trading is not in your favor.

 

[4x4lo8o]

If your opponent is mashing buttons every time they see d1 you should be using d1~godsmack. Blow that shit up

 

[Colonel-Gilgamesh]

If your opponent is mashing buttons every time they see d1 you should be using d1~godsmack. Blow that shit up

Armored b or f 3 will still eat it since it'd be the second armor move to come out.

 

[4x4lo8o]

Armored b or f 3 will still eat it since it'd be the second armor move to come out.

Are you saying if they used MB b3 after a blocked d1(expecting d1 sword) that it would beat MB GS? That's probably true, although I think a lot of b3's might whiff if they didn't hold it. I've never had any one try that on me. I have had Grundy use armored trait grab, but GS beat that.


I guess maybe I didn't read the discussion going on here thoroughly and missed something, but the idea is to make them respect your d1. Some people realize they can interrupt d1~sword and will try to do it every time. If you're trying to discourage that and free up you d1, d1~GS is the way to do it. After you've established that they can't do whatever they want after a d1 then it becomes a game of reads and guesses
MB b3 requires meter and if you're worried about that you can just not follow up your d1. Or just use a far Godsmack. You may not be punishing them for the b3, but they just wasted a bar of meter. I don't use sword every time I go d1 anyway, so if they want to use meter to attempt to discourage d1 that's fine with me. I'm winning that guessing game in the long run

 

[Colonel-Gilgamesh]

People don't seem to use armored f3, but they really should, it's way more consistent as a whole on each character. That being said, in most circumstances, a MB 3 will grind through any pressure besides another armor move, and even then unless it's another MB 3 move, you will likely be at an advantage given the insanely awesome recovery on all f/b 3 moves. It's the same reason why taking the hit from a MB 3 and blocking it is still a decent use of meter, since every f/b 3 also has absurd frame advantage, and if Doomsday is willing to burn Venom for the frame advantage, I'd pay meter burn for that on some other characters. That leaves the only option with GS far away(Or if you're really confident, Teleport behind), and in a lot of instances, Ares is giving up positioning AND recovery time.. I would't say that it's a win for Ares in that situation, or at least a huge victory.

 

[Breakin Wordzz]

I use MB f3 all the time to blowup wakeups. sometimes i do f23 teleport MB f3

 

[Hellbringer]

I use MB f3 all the time to blowup wakeups. sometimes i do f23 teleport MB f3

Yeah its awesome. It makes them not waking up so you have save pressure again. I rarely see any player do this tough, they rather complain that wakeups are too easy to doo.

 

[The Gabriel]

why would you mb f3 on wakeup over mb godsmack?

 

[Hellbringer]

why would you mb f3 on wakeup over mb godsmack?

Because they can easily jump and punish, or backdash