Match-up Discussion Johnny Cage: Official Matchup Discussion

[GGA HAN]

When you learn how to approach Freddy, which may take some time because the zoning game is unique, the match up becomes even, if not just slightly in Freddy's favor. Unlike Kabal and Kenshi, Freddy has no cheap armor attacks and fast pokes. You can bully him with repeated f+3s without any risks. EX teleport can be thrown on start up and EX sweet dreams do not track reliably. You also cannot do d+1 XX back teleport unless you are standing.

I have fought Johnny Cage more than any other character aside from Kabal. I never managed to dominate Master D. 8:2, 7:3, or any of the other laughable numbers that some Cage players post about. This match up is at the very best 6:4 in Freddy's favor.

April FOOLS:

Sent from my phone, using the keypad.

 

[Fractured_Shadow]

April FOOLS:

Sent from my phone, using the keypad.

I WAS JUST THINKING THIS LOL

 

[HGTV Soapboxfan]

When you learn how to approach Freddy, which may take some time because the zoning game is unique, the match up becomes even, if not just slightly in Freddy's favor. Unlike Kabal and Kenshi, Freddy has no cheap armor attacks and fast pokes. You can bully him with repeated f+3s without any risks. EX teleport can be thrown on start up and EX sweet dreams do not track reliably. You also cannot do d+1 XX back teleport unless you are standing.

I have fought Johnny Cage more than any other character aside from Kabal. I never managed to dominate Master D. 8:2, 7:3, or any of the other laughable numbers that some Cage players post about. This match up is at the very best 6:4 in Freddy's favor.

Agreed, it just takes practice and patience.

 

[M2Dave]

What's the best way to get in you think? I try to dash d3 under claws and block spikes to start advancing but it seems easier said than done haha.

You are right. The key is to neutral-crouch the gloves on reaction, block the spikes, and advance. It is definitely not easy, but the more you practice the better you will get.

GGA HAN, thanks for the link. I am aware of that technique. You are doing the following in reality.

Release block, f,d/b,d+1,d/b,b+3

But look at the amount of inputs. And none of them can be buffered.

 

[Durango]

Frametrap doesn't work on Raiden? I did all the moves (11, D3, F32) and he was able to teleport out of all of them. Teleporting in general pretty much 90-10'd my Cage. I couldn't get near him, but he just took advantage of teleports and the kick combos. I couldn't predict him.

How does Cage beat Raiden?

 

[G4S Claude VonStroke]

None of those are frame traps though... Only 11f1, or sweep are frame traps. You can get plus frames on hit with d4 or d3 as well. Basically if they teleport out a lot just delay your f3 for a sec and it will autocorrect into either a b3 for full combo or another f3

 

[Durango]

None of those are frame traps though... Only 11f1, or sweep are frame traps. You can get plus frames on hit with d4 or d3 as well. Basically if they teleport out a lot just delay your f3 for a sec and it will autocorrect into either a b3 for full combo or another f3

What counts as all the frametrap moves?

11, F32, F3, F32 EX Fireball, D3, and the 2B1 combos, right?

 

[G4S Claude VonStroke]

What counts as all the frametrap moves?

11, F32, F3, F32 EX Fireball, D3, and the 2B1 combos, right?

11F1, EX Fireballs, Sweep, those are his only frame trap strings. The others are neutral. But you can do d3, or d4 and on hit they are advantage as well so adding to the frame traps. But if d3 is blocked you are -7 but if d4 is blocked you are neutral. So if they are standing you do EX FB or 11f1 OR do d3 or d4. If they are ducking a lot just do f3, f32 (which are both neutral) sweep or f4. F3 has random advantage of on crouching opponents when they try to jump out it will be plus 9 randomly.

 

[crosstalk]

You have to be careful not to whiff anything against a good Raiden. Cage is very whiff punishable on a lot of his strings (f33, f33b3, f32, 21, 11f1 come to mind), so if you misread on the teleport and throw out a full string you can get punished pretty badly.

When Raiden is crouching I like to stick with just f3, 2, 21, d1, and d3. That way I can react much better when he teleports, and I don't risk whiffing strings as much. When he's standing you can take more advantage of f33 and cancel it into EX FB. If he teleports after EX FB and you read that, he's gonna be in trouble.

 

[Mikemetroid]

me vs raiden = standing 1 all day f3 when I see his stupid ass crouch.

 

[zaf]

GGA Dizzy what do u have for ermac cage mu?

Randomly : i find cage weird in the corner. I mean after a blockstring cage does a d3 and its blocked. When he does the d3 i find visually it sucks him in closer and even though i blocked a d3 i feel hes still positive

 

[Dizzy]

GGA Dizzy what do u have for ermac cage mu?

Randomly : i find cage weird in the corner. I mean after a blockstring cage does a d3 and its blocked. When he does the d3 i find visually it sucks him in closer and even though i blocked a d3 i feel hes still positive

Prob 6-4 cage. I'll elaborate on it later.

 

[HGTV Soapboxfan]

GGA Dizzy what do u have for ermac cage mu?

Randomly : i find cage weird in the corner. I mean after a blockstring cage does a d3 and its blocked. When he does the d3 i find visually it sucks him in closer and even though i blocked a d3 i feel hes still positive

I have seen this shit too. It seems like impossible to counterpoke it.

 

[Dizzy]

zaf

Do you remember what specifically causes it? I can look into it when I get a chance. It sounds like "reverse pushback" which happens in certain situations (back turned or laying grounded with certain moves) and in any other case I've seen it does not affect the frame data at all.

 

[HGTV Soapboxfan]

zaf

Do you remember what specifically causes it? I can look into it when I get a chance. It sounds like "reverse pushback" which happens in certain situations (back turned or laying grounded with certain moves) and in any other case I've seen it does not affect the frame data at all.

It seems kind of random for me. I haven't played cage in a while, I will look and see if I can find it again.

 

[zaf]

zaf

Do you remember what specifically causes it? I can look into it when I get a chance. It sounds like "reverse pushback" which happens in certain situations (back turned or laying grounded with certain moves) and in any other case I've seen it does not affect the frame data at all.

Happens like 100% more on the left side corner.
I swear that corner is so fucked up, more so then the right side.
I always seem to have this happen on The pit at night on the left hand side.

I guess just do a f33b3, into d3. Cage always gets sucked back in and I can never fucking d1 or standing 1 him for the life of me after this d3.
his d3 is like what -7 ? So if he goes d3 ( -7) into f3 ( 9 frames ) that is a 16 frame gap and I can never hit shit.

I can consistently do 1-2 frame punishes, but I can not get the fuck out of this shit.

 

[Dizzy]

Happens like 100% more on the left side corner.
I swear that corner is so fucked up, more so then the right side.
I always seem to have this happen on The pit at night on the left hand side.

I guess just do a f33b3, into d3. Cage always gets sucked back in and I can never fucking d1 or standing 1 him for the life of me after this d3.
his d3 is like what -7 ? So if he goes d3 ( -7) into f3 ( 9 frames ) that is a 16 frame gap and I can never hit shit.

I can consistently do 1-2 frame punishes, but I can not get the fuck out of this shit.

Yeah there is certain things that happen in the left side but not the right, like KL can't do spin into JK xx Tele 3 immediately or it kicks them out of the corner (must do JK xx DK first) while this does not occur on the right side. So it wouldn't be unprecendented for it to be some left corner thing.

Weird though, I will check it out tonight for sure.

 

[Mikemetroid]

zaf cant handle the mikemetroid mash buttons tech

no but seriously I get away with that d3 shit way to much in the corner lol

 

[Dizzy]

zaf

I didn't see anything of the sort when looking into it last night, the only thing that I saw (that I had forgot to mention) is after f33b3 is blocked, if Cage dashes up and does d3 max range, the pushback causes Ermac's counterpoke d1 to whiff and it can be whiff punished by F33 nutpunch. It's a setup though, doesnt have to do with frame data.

Either way, I didn't see anything happen where d3 wasnt minus frames. It only has 7f of blockstun so counterpoking it on reaction while looking for other things is nearly impossible.

 

[HGTV Soapboxfan]

Yeah I laugh when players complain that I am using gimmicky shit when I d3 in pressure. They don't understand frame data at all.

 

[ChrisJG]

I put cage ermac close to even. It really depends on the player. Cage has to be super patient and wait for a good opening. Ermacs instant air fireball can zone pretty hard but once cage gets in ermac has no armor so it's rough... I'm sure dizzy knows more though but that's just my 2 cents.

 

[Soul Bound X]

I put cage ermac close to even. It really depends on the player. Cage has to be super patient and wait for a good opening. Ermacs instant air fireball can zone pretty hard but once cage gets in ermac has no armor so it's rough... I'm sure dizzy knows more though but that's just my 2 cents.

I played this game when it was alive and there was a lot of competition. ermac isn't going to keep cage out, he'll get in, instant air fireball is annoying but that's it. Cage might have to be a little patient but its not like ermac is sub zero. Cage will get in, and like you said, its rough.

 

[getoverhere--->]

So Cage players? What is the secret to getting out of Knee pressure?

I don't even call it pressure, that's just spam to me, seriously... fuck him.

 

[Soul Bound X]

I don't even call it pressure, that's just spam to me, seriously... fuck him.

Armor, down 1 , or down 3. you dont want to stand up because 11f1 is plus on block giving cage a free fwd 3 so duck. when you duck look out for fwd 4, 2 1 fwd 2, and fwd 33 back 3. its all a big guessing game. if you see him begin to do any of those string you can stand up, and if he completes the string, then you're out of pressure because those string are negative on block. Just know your frame data and try to guess right or armor out. @Solo

 

[Soul Bound X]

11F1, EX Fireballs, Sweep, those are his only frame trap strings. The others are neutral. But you can do d3, or d4 and on hit they are advantage as well so adding to the frame traps. But if d3 is blocked you are -7 but if d4 is blocked you are neutral. So if they are standing you do EX FB or 11f1 OR do d3 or d4. If they are ducking a lot just do f3, f32 (which are both neutral) sweep or f4. F3 has random advantage of on crouching opponents when they try to jump out it will be plus 9 randomly.

This is late and irrelevant but its just a little thing that annoyed me when i read it. Never sweep when applying pressure. There is absolutely never a good reason i can think of to ever sweep when applying pressure with cage. Thats all i wanted to say