Match-up Discussion Post-patch Match up List and Discussion

[G4S KT]

I really do think Bane is 4-6 Bane, after playing PND_Mustard for a good lengthy set and having troubles with Bane from others.

No, I'm not just in a state of salt, because I've been trying to figure this matchup out for a while now. Hear me out on this one.

The thing with Bane is, you don't want to be close. Yeah, of course. HOWEVER, here's where the whole idea of keepaway sorta falters a little bit. Bane's venom charge forces you to mini gun, specifically trait mini gun. However, that's only a good few seconds of being able to stop his charge from full screen. The problem with mini gun, though, is GL has to MB it constantly to keep Bane from charging on the whiff, and this only really is a great idea with trait up, because if mini gun whiffs just once, Bane can charge on whiff, and he's pretty much in, block or hit. Not to mention, when blocked, you have to MB OR, or Bane will just dash in, unless he's level 3. At that point, Bane gives no fucks about ANYTHING not mini gun.

The whole keepaway process sucks simply because you're constantly burning through meter to keep him there, because it's the only way you will. Once in, you might as well hope you didn't blow everything on mini gun. Wakeups are out of the question, and GL's backdash is so bad, it's very easy to catch him with Bane's stuff. So up close he's mauling you. But what about once venom runs out? If you managed to survive his onslaught without too much damage taken...what are you doing to get into his face? His backdash is retarded good, even with the debuffs. You have to do stuff like OR or LM to catch backdashes, and without much meter that you may have spent trying to keep Bane away, you don't really have much left to convert for damage on those options.

Bane forces GL into using too much meter for him to get damage where he can, and can even fuck him over for using the meter pretty well. Without meter, Bane becomes extremely difficult to manage. With meter, you can do stuff, but you have to make the right reads way too often with it for the usage to pay off. Not to mention you're stuck trying to keep Bane full screen, with a keepaway game that doesn't necessarily keep him out.

I'm willing to hear what everyone else is doing to combat Bane, but I don't see how GL wins it, or even how it's even for him.

I'm not gonna say that this is wrong because I have little experience against high level Bane, but I will say this:

This whole post reads as though EX chaingun is the only move that Bane isn't invincible to and that Bane is venom'd at all times.

 

[G4S KT]

on a related note, I played extended sets against REO's scorp and Killer Frost today.

scorp is bad, but being on a stage with very few interactables helps IMMENSELY (you'd think it'd be the opposite)

I'm more sure than ever that KF - GL is 5-5

 

[Crimson Panther]

I don't really keep up with this game too much, is Green Lantern still considered one of the best characters? I remember people talked about him being the best, and I didn't really agree but I kept my mouth shut because honestly I haven't been a ton of time into the game.

Top 10 at least. Could be argued for Top 5.

 

[CitizenSnips]

Top 10 at least. Could be argued for Top 5.

True.

 

[THTB]

I'm not gonna say that this is wrong because I have little experience against high level Bane, but I will say this:

This whole post reads as though EX chaingun is the only move that Bane isn't invincible to and that Bane is venom'd at all times.

The problem is Bane can turtle it out if he's on a debuff, since his backdash is still good enough to run away from GL. That's where trait MB minigun does come into play, but you're spending too much meter in the first place using it to keep him out.

At level 3, mini gun is the only thing that actually stops charge. And the debuff changes makes a hell of a difference.

 

[PND_Mustard]

So 6-4 in favor of Bane?

Sent from my SCH-R830 using Tapatalk 2

yeah, 6-4 Bane imo.

 

[ChaoticShdwMonk]

At level 3, mini gun is the only thing that actually stops charge. And the debuff changes makes a hell of a difference.

can't you just jump/AOR over it? or maybe backwards jump over it then lift if in range?

 

[THTB]

can't you just jump/AOR over it? or maybe backwards jump over it then lift if in range?

You can, but Bane isn't going to always charge randomly. What Mustard was doing was reacting to my minigun...if I didn't have trait ready, he'd wait outside of its max range, and charge on the recovery.

 

[G4S KT]

Batgirl revised to 5-5, she's just annoying. Don't throw air rockets or jump unless its on reaction to a bola and you'll be fine.

Cyborg on the other hand is anywhere from 6-4 to 9-1 depending on map and location.

This MU is decided in the first 5 seconds. If you can catch cyborg before he escapes out to full screen and get a good life lead, you're in good shape. The reason is he can't keep you pinned down with iagbs because you can get off standing oas rocket and trade with him in a lot of cases, forcing him to come to you.

If he gets away and you're playing a cyborg capable of consistently hitting as-low-as-possible (ALAP) iagbs, you LITERALLY can't do anything. Not even walk forward; the start up of GLs forward walk is too slow, he moves maybe 5 pixels forward before the next fireball is on top of you. At this point, you have to make reads on when to jump forward because you CAN jump over ALAP iagbs but NOT ones that are slightly higher.

If you're on a map with a reusable corner interactable, or if he gets on the right hand side of watchtower, gg lantern. You might as well quit to character select and pick scorpion.

 

[G4S KT]

Batgirl revised to 5-5, she's just annoying. Don't throw air rockets or jump unless its on reaction to a bola and you'll be fine.

Cyborg on the other hand is anywhere from 6-4 to 9-1 depending on map and location.

This MU is decided in the first 5 seconds. If you can catch cyborg before he escapes out to full screen and get a good life lead, you're in good shape. The reason is he can't keep you pinned down with iagbs because you can get off standing oas rocket and trade with him in a lot of cases, forcing him to come to you.

If he gets away and you're playing a cyborg capable of consistently hitting as-low-as-possible (ALAP) iagbs, you LITERALLY can't do anything. Not even walk forward; the start up of GLs forward walk is too slow, he moves maybe 5 pixels forward before the next fireball is on top of you. At this point, you have to make reads on when to jump forward because you CAN jump over ALAP iagbs but NOT ones that are slightly higher.

If you're on a map with a reusable corner interactable, or if he gets on the right hand side of watchtower, gg lantern. You might as well quit to character select and pick scorpion.

NOTE: if the cyborg has sloppy air fireballs it's much much easier

 

[x MAD AXES x]

Harley wins the mu about 7-3 in her favour

 

[Orochi]

Harley wins the mu about 7-3 in her favour

Sounds legit.

 

[x MAD AXES x]

Sounds legit.

her gunshot beats all his spacing while Harley can duck his projectile while he takes chip, his air moving rocket that can be used to get in can be cupcaked on reaction, the mb version gives her a mini juggle with SS ts~3. He has to get in and has trouble with that and if he gets in Harley can still hold her own.

 

[Orochi]

He only has to get in if she's winning, the same goes for her if GL is winning. I haven't lost a lantern vs harley zone war when I'm in the lead yet, pick metro and get a life lead with GL and it's gg.

 

[x MAD AXES x]

You can't really count stages for match ups, a power character can destroy a gadget character who is 2-8 in a certain stage and vice versa, he always has to come in unless he has a marginal health lead, in a zoning war lantern is always taking chip while Harley isn't

 

[Orochi]

How's harley not taking chip? Her gunshots can be ducked too therefore she has to do her other 2 moves which can be traded for oas rocket, and one of them is so slow you can oas rocket MB. I don't know I havent been beat that bad by a harley yet to think the matchup's in her favor 7-3 and actually here we thought it was on lanterns favor.

 

[x MAD AXES x]

She has iags if you are ducking, which she can also jump over his projectile and damage him, dealing damage not chip.

 

[Orochi]

I'm talking about full zoning, iags and jumps over his projectile are mid-range, which is GLs optimal range, both of those can be lifted.

 

[x MAD AXES x]

I think she can pop pop back cancel in time to block lanterns projectile, she still takes chip but she can confirm if g lantern is going to do it.

 

[G4S KT]

Harley wins the mu about 7-3 in her favour

J360

 

[Endeavor]

I play a really good Harley on the regular, her name is Birdsongs. I do not think that match up is 7-3 Harley. If he stays within maximum life range he makes things extremely difficult for Harley. If he is ducking and she goes for iags, he can on reaction block and lift punish. And once he has the life lead It is very hard for her to get it back, she has to go to great lengths and take lots of risks to deal with him. I think its 5-5 at best, and maybe an even 6-4 GL. Another problem that GL gives Harley is his all seeing, all knowing b1, that move creates so many problems for Harley simply because of his range, and if your fighting a GL that knows his spacing with B1 and lift, he takes away mot of your advancing options. Granted when Harley does get in on him her high low mix ups give him quite the problem, however , if he does not what to deal with that, and blocks the fist hit of her string, he can push-block her and put her back in the neutral position and that exactly where Harley does not want to be.

 

[G4S KT]

Update on the most effective ways to deal with superman zoning:

Air laser:

do a LATE jump into a LATE air turbine. Too early and you'll run into the beam. Super easy to do on reaction and works everywhere on screen.

Ground laser & Heat Zap:

The startup for these 2 are almost identical, so just assume it's heat zap and crouch; you can't afford to be taking 5% chip on that shit. If it's ground laser and he MB's it, you're basically at even and can't respond.

If you crouch a heat zap, he must respect a standing rocket. If he tries to do another heat zap or ground laser you he gets hit by the rocket and you can MB for a nice 18% chunk and a chance to advance.

 

[Orochi]

Update on the most effective ways to deal with superman zoning:

Air laser:

do a LATE jump into a LATE air turbine. Too early and you'll run into the beam. Super easy to do on reaction and works everywhere on screen.

Ground laser & Heat Zap:

The startup for these 2 are almost identical, so just assume it's heat zap and crouch; you can't afford to be taking 5% chip on that shit. If it's ground laser and he MB's it, you're basically at even and can't respond.

If you crouch a heat zap, he must respect a standing rocket. If he tries to do another heat zap or ground laser you he gets hit by the rocket and you can MB for a nice 18% chunk and a chance to advance.

Nice, my biggest gripe with supes is the f23 pressure, online i always seem to drop the counter poke or the backdash b23

 

[G4S KT]

Nice, my biggest gripe with supes is the f23 pressure, online i always seem to drop the counter poke or the backdash b23

my advice would be to just be more patient. superman has no way of opening you up besides throw since you can block low to guard and punish scoop and react to his painfully slow overheads. Just wait until he gets bored and does one of those or some corny-ass air dash shit. If he pauses to try and whiff punish, jump at him. GL's j1 priority will probably still beat his d2 clean post July 2nd buff.

After the July 2nd patch if you're feeling saucy you can try and slip in a d1 xx EX rocket for a big damage combo but until then I can't really recommend it because at best you can hope for a trade. Otherwise you're betting that your timing of F23 breath is better than theirs and I guarantee they've done it more times than you.

I would never backdash either, it gets beat clean by another F23. There are very few situations where backdashing with GL seems like a good idea because he normally gets wrecked for it. What with the whole being slow as fuck and having a ton of recovery thing.

 

[G4S KT]

Ok, so GLs d2 needs to be re-evaluated for any buffs.

Also, everyone else's d2 against GLs jump ins need to be re-evaluated

Any corps members that can get on this right away?