Is this game too easy from an execution standpoint?

[THTB]

sf 4 is not in anyway hard execution wise at all, the emphasis is a bit like injustice more on mind games and fundamentals.
sf4 is a poking game based of very small combos, more focus is on spacing reactions and oki.
you may find it hard but quarter circle motion dont quantify for harder execution.
these are just inputs some people are used to and prefer, and is the capcom style of inputs.

Read my post again, please.

This stuff is not so easy anyone can just pick up a pad/stick and just do it right off the bat if they're not used to as much execution.

Honda, Blanka, Gen, and Chun all require you to be capable of canceling to their mash specials off of different normals. It is not easy when you have to position your fingers in such awkward positions at times.

Safe jump timings are a rhythm, and if your rhythm is slightly off, the safe jump doesn't work as intended. And the same can be said for option selects.

Doing QCB, u/f in a smooth enough motion, taking into account the character's height restriction for said move, isn't something that everyone is capable of doing the first time.

People who have played SFIV or other, more difficult games for enough time won't have a problem. But others won't find it that easy, because it's not.

 

[Crazykitana]

Read my post again, please.

This stuff is not so easy anyone can just pick up a pad/stick and just do it right off the bat if they're not used to as much execution.

Honda, Blanka, Gen, and Chun all require you to be capable of canceling to their mash specials off of different normals. It is not easy when you have to position your fingers in such awkward positions at times.

Safe jump timings are a rhythm, and if your rhythm is slightly off, the safe jump doesn't work as intended. And the same can be said for option selects.

Doing QCB, u/f in a smooth enough motion, taking into account the character's height restriction for said move, isn't something that everyone is capable of doing the first time.

People who have played SFIV or other, more difficult games for enough time won't have a problem. But others won't find it that easy, because it's not.

it all depends on youre familiarity with the inputs sf4 is not hard execution wise at all.
all what you hav e listed has nothing to do with how complex execution wise sf4 is which it isnt.
its all a matter of muscle memory.
while aspects of the game may take longer with plinking around even links are easy.

 

[jonnzz]

I guess I tend to take some of that stuff for granted because it's second nature to me now, but I guess I can understand that perspective for someone just getting into the game.

Execution is probably very subjective.

Eg most combos in VS are easy, because i just need fast inputs. In marvel 3, controlling my opponent's character position during aerial combos is really hard for me.
In GG, most combos are not so hard if you avoid some really execution-heavy characters (I play Anji so i don't need very difficult combos).
I think SF4 is not so easy, because you have to slow down your inputs, which i find counter-intuitive.

I know some people that find SF4 easy will not being able to do any VS combos.

Granted, Kof is extremely difficult but i really think Kof XIII is easy compared to 98 or even 2002.

Some game engines will fit some players better.

 

[THTB]

it all depends on youre familiarity with the inputs sf4 is not hard execution wise at all.
all what you hav e listed has nothing to do with how complex execution wise sf4 is which it isnt.
its all a matter of muscle memory.
while aspects of the game may take longer with plinking around even links are easy.

Execution is pretty much muscle memory in general.

In that case, Fox waveshines are easy because it's muscle memory lol.

And again, I'm not saying it's hard. I'm saying it's not braindead easy as you seem to impose it is.

 

[Badboy Takuma]

imho ST is the fighting game which requires the highest execution level!

 

[jonnzz]

imho ST is the fighting game which requires the highest execution level!

ST sure is not easy. But you don't really need combos and pianoing helps (haha, we're talking about a game that makes you feel happy when you do the wrong version of Shoryuken, because it's better than no Shoryuken at all).

 

[Celerity]

imho ST is the fighting game which requires the highest execution level!

Vampire Savior is like ST on crack.

 

[Badboy Takuma]

Vampire Savior is like ST on crack.

Really?

 

[jonnzz]

Really?

I think you almost only to be quick to perform combos in VS (I play Morrigan, Lei Lei and Sasq).

 

[MorbidAltruism]

Yes. I think the game is extremely easy from an execution stand point. I don't necessarily think it is TOO easy. Things can never be too easy for me. I do agree though. There was nothing intense or rewarding to learn like Kabal's dash pressure. I mean the BnBs seem way easier to learn too. I remember some MK9 BnBs taking me at least half and hour to get down consistently. In Injustice it only takes me 2 or 3 tries to get the timing right. In some cases like Batman's B3 after his j2 223 I had some troubles. Mostly because the timing is messed up though. Most Batman players have trouble with that one at first. So yes. I agree.

 

[Spyridon]

Yes. I think the game is extremely easy from an execution stand point. I don't necessarily think it is TOO easy. Things can never be too easy for me. I do agree though. There was nothing intense or rewarding to learn like Kabal's dash pressure. I mean the BnBs seem way easier to learn too. I remember some MK9 BnBs taking me at least half and hour to get down consistently. In Injustice it only takes me 2 or 3 tries to get the timing right. In some cases like Batman's B3 after his j2 223 I had some troubles. Mostly because the timing is messed up though. Most Batman players have trouble with that one at first. So yes. I agree.

No offense but people are thinking through rose colored glasses a little bit here.

Execution in games gets harder as the games develop more. I wasn't the biggest MK9 player (I gamefly'd it but never owned it myself) but I played a little bit early on, and I can say the month 1 BnB's were very easy to execute as well. Honestly one of the reasons I dropped the game was I spent a couple hours on a character and it felt like I knew them inside and out.

But look how far MK9 has developed. It would be silly not to expect the same here.

 

[MorbidAltruism]

No offense but people are thinking through rose colored glasses a little bit here.

Execution in games gets harder as the games develop more. I wasn't the biggest MK9 player (I gamefly'd it but never owned it myself) but I played a little bit early on, and I can say the month 1 BnB's were very easy to execute as well. Honestly one of the reasons I dropped the game was I spent a couple hours on a character and it felt like I knew them inside and out.

But look how far MK9 has developed. It would be silly not to expect the same here.

Of course... but I am not necessarily thinking in terms of a month from now... I do see your point though.

 

[jrock920]

its easy but fun if couldn't play it pad i wouldn't be playing it lol so mk9 is as easy as injustice

 

[Vilén]

The game's execution is fine.

Honestly I think you should just be able to input your combos in like 1.5 seconds if you're fast enough and then watch the whole thing play out on screen like a movie. Difficult execution doesn't prove anything other than who has the most free time to spend in training mode.

I remember the MK9 circle jerks over whose character had the hardest execution, as if in MK9, anyone was winning. It's just a stupid masturbation contest.

 

[IceNine]

I think it has a pretty low execution barrier, which is a good thing. ESPECIALLY in the current online era of fighting games.

I don't think base mechanics, especially things like movement, should ever be overtly difficult to execute. They should be intuitive.

That said, there should be a wide range of difficulty in characters to satisfy players who play fighting games to challenge their dexterity. I don't know if such a character exists in IGAU, as I'm just speaking on my general design philosophy. Fighting games should ultimately be a contest between two people's decision making abilities in the fast, fluid context of changing positions and differing options between characters, as opposed to a struggle with your own ability to execute. High execution characters ideally reward those dextrous players with style and oftentimes respect from their peers (not to mention personal satisfaction for overcoming that barrier).



But that's just my own opinion of the genre.

 

[Lost Icon]

Execution being easier still doesn't make up for the difference in skill level between players. That is what everyone is missing. Okay you can do 45% BNBs because it is easy, but if you are a bad/inexperienced player you still will not make the reads necessary to lead to those combos often. Execution being easier only helps the game in the long run. It attracts more players into competitive gaming which helps the games growth and longevity as a whole. More active players is a good thing...ALWAYS.

So while we are praising games for their difficulty and using them in comparison to injustice, lets remember how few people play those games. Tekken tag 2 is a pretty difficult game, and its community is pretty damn small now. No new players go to it. KOF? small community in the US.

You know why marvel attracts so many people? Because my imaginary armless little brother Geraldocan touch of death anyone off of a lucky hit in casual play. But there is still a HUGE difference between my imaginary handicapped brother Geraldo and Chris G/Yipes/FC champ. He would stand no chance

Is it annoying that any random player can land one hit that leads to a 40+% combo? yeah. But lets be real, it's annoying when ANYONE lands a combo on you. Bitching about stuff being easy to pull off is just as much of a cop out as antyhing else.

Woah I think youre missing the point. Even Marvel has very high execution tactics that people love to watch as a spectator. They are flashy and often lead to different setups and traps. People just act like they can actually do Magneto side switch hyper grav loops and Dante Dtrigger combos when yo know they cant. Those are strong high execution setups that lead to specific setups. Injustice at high level is literally the same 3 maybe 4 strings per character, and there doesn't seem to be much reason to deviate from these tactics.

And I dont know if anyone else has noticed, high execution can be pretty exciting to watch and play in any game. I wouldnt want an NRS game that awards high execution inherently, but lets not dismiss execution entirely.

 

[PoweredbyProtein]

*Snip*

Try playing Guilty Gear. It seems like a game that fits you, and a new one and an update to the current one is coming out soon.

 

[Badboy Takuma]

.

And I dont know if anyone else has noticed, high execution can be pretty exciting to watch and play in any game. I wouldnt want an NRS game that awards high execution inherently, but lets not dismiss execution entirely.

this!

 

[Saboteur-6]

Honestly, if you want to play at a higher execution rate that requires almost perfection, play flash.

Or Hawkgirl.

 

[Chakk dizzle]

Woah I think youre missing the point. Even Marvel has very high execution tactics that people love to watch as a spectator. They are flashy and often lead to different setups and traps. People just act like they can actually do Magneto side switch hyper grav loops and Dante Dtrigger combos when yo know they cant. Those are strong high execution setups that lead to specific setups. Injustice at high level is literally the same 3 maybe 4 strings per character, and there doesn't seem to be much reason to deviate from these tactics.

And I dont know if anyone else has noticed, high execution can be pretty exciting to watch and play in any game. I wouldnt want an NRS game that awards high execution inherently, but lets not dismiss execution entirely.

I think you missed my point =\ . I said high damage combos are easy to do in marvel, but theres a big difference between a random player who can do said easy combo because its easy and Chris g/yipes/fc champ etc. I don't think you read it.

 

[KonDcnT]

I agree with many high % combos being easy to pull off, I am a Joker only main and it can be discouraging to see other characters with such easy inputs that yield high damage. Many of which are trait reliant, unfortunately Joker's trait leaves much to be desired. I feel injustice offers a lot. I have faith that the future patches will balance everything and for those of us fighting the uphill battle will be greatly rewarded for our dedication. I think it is cool that NRS made a game that can be played by everyone and still offer a lot to the hardcore gamer.

 

[Chakk dizzle]

I agree with many high % combos being easy to pull off, I am a Joker only main and it can be discouraging to see other characters with such easy inputs that yield high damage. Many of which are trait reliant, unfortunately Joker's trait leaves much to be desired. I feel injustice offers a lot. I have faith that the future patches will balance everything and for those of us fighting the uphill battle will be greatly rewarded for our dedication. I think it is cool that NRS made a game that can be played by everyone and still offer a lot to the hardcore gamer.

But jokers bnb does like 40+ itself, and its easy as hell to do. he is no exception.

 

[KonDcnT]

You're are right it is easy, and you can get about 43% from it, but it took me forever to get the timing right. It can all be blocked and punished and getting in to use it has been kind of a b$#%@ for me lately in online matches. I guess I was justifying his Bnb based on what he lacks in other aspects of the game. He also has some teeth loops that can put out some decent damage, but their kinda ghetto. Hopefully they won't nerf the damage output on his BnB. haha

 

[RoGE]

Why would fighting games need an execution barrier to begin with? There are plenty of other things you can focus practicing on. It shouldn't really be about if you CAN do a move but WHEN you do it.

I have yet to see a good argument defending this as there are plenty of games with a low execution barrier that can still take time to get on a pro's level, just look at umk3. Yes, umk3 is easy to pick up but you aren't going to beat someone like Reo in that game just by knowing some combos. Game's like SF4 contain a ton of annoying 1 frame links that you have to master in order to improve, which is what really turns me off from playing the game again.

Why should anyone be stalled in such a tedious way?

 

[atljonesbro1]

I like that it was that it was a bit easy to learn combos. This is the first fighting game I've REALLY played in terms of trying to get good. I still didn't go in and start blowing people up from the jump. I decided to main Green Arrow who I think is one of the harder execution characters in the game and DEFINITELY took my knocks learning him lol. I think at one point I was like 5-40 with him record wise. But every day I consistently saw progress learning spacing, how to punish, how to react to moves, and all that other jazz and now I'm winning a high percentage of games with him. I can say from experience there's a lot more to the game than just hitting combos. I could hit the combos I just couldn't do all the other stuff well.