The Death of Zoning in Injustice: GAU

[Mr. Scythe]

There's this weird ass concept called "adapting". Basically, you change your strategy or sometimes even your character depending on the situation! Sounds fucking absurd I know, BUT.........it just may actually work. Seriously, I wanna slap the shit out of so many people in this thread.

 

[Doombawkz]

Deathstroke still has excellent projectiles and is still one of the hardest characters to move against. You will get shot trying to move in against a good Stroke. This couples with some of the best punishing ability in the game, superb wakeups, safe standing true 50/50s, an ambiguous crossup vortex and an ambiguous corner bounce crossup. The nerf on his guns mostly served to make mid-range a weak area for him, making it harder and more dangerous for him to move against other characters. Don't let Dave fool you, he's still entirely worth playing and he's still an A(+?) tier character.

To go in order:
Teleport makes your zoning irrelevant.
Your punishment is okay, nothing special considering the low damage.
Your wake-ups are all horrendous and laughable along with your backdash. Its why Bane strikes 5-5.
50/50s are nice until you realize you are forced to use only that and they don't outrange your opponent's options
Wake-up invuln teleport, AAs you for free
Gonna have to get them in the corner first

A+? Sure. You still have better options to pick from. If you hit Evo GF and pick deathstroke because of the few things you listed, then I'm sure the opponent won't mind disillusioning you.

 

[Sasuga]

Leave the FGC, please....

 

[Doombawkz]

There's this weird ass concept called "adapting". Basically, you change your strategy or sometimes even your character depending on the situation! Sounds fucking absurd I know, BUT.........it just may actually work. Seriously, I wanna slap the shit out of so many people in this thread.

Welcome to the point of the thread.
No reason to pick the zoning 3 because their zoning is now irrelevant and theres better options that don't lose half their kit because of one attack. A.K.A. Everyone needs to adapt.

 

[MadVillain]

the mindset of a "zoning master" is sorry as fuck

 

[jaym7018]

Why bother when I can shut down half your kit and get a free win? If we are skirting 1-1 and you are stuck with the zoning 3, I have no reason not to pick batgirl / scorp and take away your zoning. Rely on that other half of your kit that you were never meant to rely on so heavily while I use all of mine to full effectiveness.

Its not a free win as ive said 1000 times scorpion and batgirl dont hard counter those 3. They counter zoning those 3 arent the only ones with zoning. What do you mean never meant to rely on? Deathstroke has some of the dirtiest mix ups and his own vortex. Cyborg has among the highest corner damage in the game sinestro has unblockable set ups and resets. Batgirl and scorpion rely heavy on their counter zoning i can take that away by not zoning.

 

[jaym7018]

Welcome to the point of the thread.
No reason to pick the zoning 3 because their zoning is now irrelevant and theres better options that don't lose half their kit because of one attack. A.K.A. Everyone needs to adapt.

If zoning is irrelavent doesnt that make anti zoning irrelevant to? There are characters with beter options than the anti zoners.

 

[atljonesbro1]

the mindset of a "zoning master" is sorry as fuck

"THER NT M8KING IT EZ 4 ME 2 HIT THM"- Your mindset

 

[jaym7018]

"THER NT M8KING IT EZ 4 ME 2 HIT THM"- Your mindset

"Knot fair der dodgin my boolets" - Your mindset.

 

[Doombawkz]

Its not a free win as ive said 1000 times scorpion and batgirl dont hard counter those 3. They counter zoning those 3 arent the only ones with zoning. What do you mean never meant to rely on? Deathstroke has some of the dirtiest mix ups and his own vortex. Cyborg has among the highest corner damage in the game sinestro has unblockable set ups and resets. Batgirl and scorpion rely heavy on their counter zoning i can take that away by not zoning.

That's all nice, lets see...
KF has better mix-ups and doesn't do crap for damage.
Cyborg has the highest corner damage? Level 3 venom Bane says hi while he does the equivalent of Cyborg's damage in one simple BnB string. Also Superman does the same if not more damage and is all around better.
Sinestro has unblockable set-ups IF he manages to corner you.

You can not zone, you still only have half a kit and all the tools you have aren't made to be stand-alone.

Want mix-ups and dirty damage? Pick KF.
Want corner damage? Pick Superman
Want unblockable set-ups? Good luck getting to the corner or even charging trait.

Batgirl and Scorp only use one attack for counter zoning, everything else is for general use. That means it takes them one attack to get rid of half your kit and you are forced to play footsies with characters who can beat you in that field because they can use tools when you can't. You aren't gaining any advantage by picking those 3 when characters take away half the kit. No matter how you try to twist it, your options that you have left aren't going to beat out a full character. ESPECIALLY not batgirl who sits in a comfortable spot in S tier as it is because of her insane pressure game.

 

[Duck Nation]

To go in order:
Teleport makes your zoning irrelevant.
Your punishment is okay, nothing special considering the low damage.
Your wake-ups are all horrendous and laughable along with your backdash. Its why Bane strikes 5-5.
50/50s are nice until you realize you are forced to use only that and they don't outrange your opponent's options
Wake-up invuln teleport, AAs you for free
Gonna have to get them in the corner first

A+? Sure. You still have better options to pick from. If you hit Evo GF and pick deathstroke because of the few things you listed, then I'm sure the opponent won't mind disillusioning you.

- Teleport makes my zoning difficult. Scorpion and Batgirl make it harder, not irrelevant. I actually find Killer Frost and Nightwing more difficult because Frost can punish - much easier than reading, which is what Batgirl and Scorpion have to do - and Nightwing's ground pound is just plain more beefy than DS guns and will beat it out braindead.
- DS punishes also leave you either trying to guess a vortex or having to wade through his bullets again afterwards. It's not trivial.
- Sword spin is quite good as a wakeup, and since his sword flip is now invincible on wakeup as well he looks even better in this department. Don't know what to tell you other than that I think you're sorely underestimating this.
- Flying ninja crossup trades or beats Batgirl and Scorpion wakeups with correct timing. Crossover F3 also bones Scorpion, because it causes his input to reverse.
- Not all that hard.

 

[jaym7018]

- Teleport makes my zoning difficult. Scorpion and Batgirl make it harder, not irrelevant. I actually find Killer Frost and Nightwing more difficult because Frost can punish - much easier than reading, which is what Batgirl and Scorpion have to do - and Nightwing's ground pound is just plain more beefy than DS guns and will beat it out braindead.
- DS punishes also leave you either trying to guess a vortex or having to wade through his bullets again afterwards. It's not trivial.
- Sword spin is quite good as a wakeup, and since his sword flip is now invincible on wakeup as well he looks even better in this department. Don't know what to tell you other than that I think you're sorely underestimating this.
- Flying ninja crossup trades or beats Batgirl and Scorpion wakeups with correct timing. Crossover F3 also bones Scorpion, because it causes his input to reverse.
- Not all that hard.

Non-retarded deathstroke player right here.

 

[Doombawkz]

If zoning is irrelavent doesnt that make anti zoning irrelevant to? There are characters with beter options than the anti zoners.

True, but if they don't need to anti-zone then they won't be picked. If you get locked in as zoning 3? Batgirl.
Otherwise? Any other top tier juggernaut.

Its that simple.

 

[atljonesbro1]

"Knot fair der dodgin my boolets" - Your mindset.

Yeah how often do you hear, "Stop avoiding my projectiles you fuckig scrub" vs. "This fucking scrub is sitting full screen just throwing protectiles." Obvious answer. People who don't like zoning only want people to rushdown because it makes it easier for them. That's a fact.

 

[theSkareqro]

I don't know this m2dave but from what I gather from this and other whinings, his definition of zoners is staying fullscreen chucking projectiles and being safe at doing that. I don't know about you but doesn't zoning mean controlling space and making your opponent stay at unfavorable position and you gaining advantage or at least setup the opponent for a bad time NO MATTER WHAT DISTANCE AND MOVE YOU USE. I think m2dave, you are just salty that you now have to think and weigh the risks before chucking shit fullscreen. No more autopilot for you.

I'm not saying that those two characters don't "kill" zoning but actually they have special that do. That only means that you can't fullscreen zone against them and you have to resort to midscreen zoning with your strings. Plus it's only err what 4 characters out of 27 that you can't mindless chuck your shit fullscreen.

 

[jaym7018]

True, but if they don't need to anti-zone then they won't be picked. If you get locked in as zoning 3? Batgirl.
Otherwise? Any other top tier juggernaut.

Its that simple.

You really underestimate what the "zoning 3 " can do outside of zoning. Are you m2daves alt?

 

[jaym7018]

Yeah how often do you hear, "Stop avoiding my projectiles you fuckig scrub" vs. "This fucking scrub is sitting full screen just throwing protectiles." Obvious answer. People who don't like zoning only want people to rushdown because it makes it easier for them. That's a fact.

This entire topic is about dave crying that people avoid his projectiles.

 

[Doombawkz]

- Teleport makes my zoning difficult. Scorpion and Batgirl make it harder, not irrelevant. I actually find Killer Frost and Nightwing more difficult because Frost can punish - much easier than reading, which is what Batgirl and Scorpion have to do - and Nightwing's ground pound is just plain more beefy than DS guns and will beat it out braindead.
- DS punishes also leave you either trying to guess a vortex or having to wade through his bullets again afterwards. It's not trivial.
- Sword spin is quite good as a wakeup, and since his sword flip is now invincible on wakeup as well he looks even better in this department. Don't know what to tell you other than that I think you're sorely underestimating this.
- Flying ninja crossup trades or beats Batgirl and Scorpion wakeups with correct timing. Crossover F3 also bones Scorpion, because it causes his input to reverse.
- Not all that hard.

-Theres other counter zoners, but teleport does make your zoning irrelevant because you are no longer at a range at which it is a effective measure. You can still quick shot nightwing if you read the sparks, you can still somewhat zone out KF. You can't do either to scorp or S tier Batgirl.
-Punishes happen if you can secure them, the damage trade off? You happen into a 32% combo, I casually land a 40% combo for teleporting onto you.
- I can sit in your face and block. Your backdash isn't getting you out, and none of your wake-ups will help. You can literally just stand and block, and even then you have to guess correctly on the block. I don't.
-j.3? Its going to be hard to get that "correct timing" in the heat of the match, and input reversal? That happens with all cross-ups, just work with the inverted inputs and you are sold.
-harder than you are assuming

 

[Celerity]

I don't know this m2dave but from what I gather from this and other whinings, his definition of zoners is staying fullscreen chucking projectiles and being safe at doing that. I don't know about you but doesn't zoning mean controlling space and making your opponent stay at unfavorable position and you gaining advantage or at least setup the opponent for a bad time NO MATTER WHAT DISTANCE AND MOVE YOU USE. I think m2dave, you are just salty that you now have to think and weigh the risks before chucking shit fullscreen. No more autopilot for you.

I'm not saying that those two characters don't "kill" zoning but actually they have special that do. That only means that you can't fullscreen zone against them and you have to resort to midscreen zoning with your strings. Plus it's only err what 4 characters out of 27 that you can't mindless chuck your shit fullscreen.

Stop talking logic. We don't need your kind around here.

 

[Doombawkz]

You really underestimate what the "zoning 3 " can do outside of zoning. Are you m2daves alt?

You really overestimate them. Batgirl is S tier not just because of her one attack that erases half your kit's usefulness and gives her 40% to boot. You assume half a deathstroke can beat all of a Batgirl? Not even all of a deathstoke can do that.

 

[atljonesbro1]

This entire topic is about dave crying that people avoid his projectiles.

I'd say this vs complaining about zoners is probably a 1:100 ratio. It's just because rush down people want their style of play to be easier. It's not just this genre either. You see the EXACT same thing in FPS games. "Oh this [ban incoming] is just head glitching behind a barrel, get some skill and rush". Translate that to, stop making it hard for me to shoot you, run out in the open so you're an easier target. The same logic is used through all of gaming for any defensive style of play because it makes it harder on aggressive players.

 

[jaym7018]

-Theres other counter zoners, but teleport does make your zoning irrelevant because you are no longer at a range at which it is a effective measure. You can still quick shot nightwing if you read the sparks, you can still somewhat zone out KF. You can't do either to scorp or S tier Batgirl.
-Punishes happen if you can secure them, the damage trade off? You happen into a 32% combo, I casually land a 40% combo for teleporting onto you.
- I can sit in your face and block. Your backdash isn't getting you out, and none of your wake-ups will help. You can literally just stand and block, and even then you have to guess correctly on the block. I don't.
-j.3? Its going to be hard to get that "correct timing" in the heat of the match, and input reversal? That happens with all cross-ups, just work with the inverted inputs and you are sold.
-harder than you are assuming

In what world are you landing 40% combos off teleport? Have you even played this game?

 

[Duck Nation]

Sigh. Why am I bothering trying to explain the character I play to somebody who knows little about them? I give up on this thread.

 

[Doombawkz]

In what world are you landing 40% combos off teleport? Have you even played this game?

In what world is half of your kit demounting someone whose pressure is on par with KF?

 

[jaym7018]

You really overestimate them. Batgirl is S tier not just because of her one attack that erases half your kit's usefulness and gives her 40% to boot. You assume half a deathstroke can beat all of a Batgirl? Not even all of a deathstoke can do that.

Dude you are delusional she doesnt get 40% off her teleport . Couple posts back you said 2 months isnt long enough to guage tiers. But here your ass is calling batgirl S tier after 2 god damn weeks. You are geting more clueless by the post on top of contradicting yourself.