The Death of Zoning in Injustice: GAU

[jaym7018]

Hmm... Pick a 5-5 and be locked into KF where my opponent can't hard counter me...
Or pick a 7-3 and be locked into Hawkgirl where the opponent can...


Why play Hawkgirl and be locked into a character with god awful MUs to a decent chunk of the cast when you can pick Kf and be safe?
No, batman vs Bane could be though. Point being, why pick Deathstroke/Sinestro/Cyborg when you can be counterpicked? Theres characters without those issues of 7-3/8-2 bad MUs that will leave you in a better seat for the next round.

Deathstroke and cyborg have 0 2-8 or 3-7 match ups anyone who says different is wrong.

 

[Doombawkz]

''You guys and your constant adapt talk'' I think it was the people who were playing zoning characters that told the rest to adapt now its coming right back at them. Zoning is dead ? I dont think so, look at Aris, Slipps, woundcowboy and legend for example they all play zoning characters and they all place top 8 at locals/majors. How are they doing it ? Are they somehow superior ? I dont think so, its just that they are willing to adapt their playstyle a bit and work with the tools they are given. You cant just sit fullscreen no more and you have to space correctly and make good reads if you wanna zone properly. That being said zoning isnt the same as it was on release day I agree, and it did take a punch to the face I agree but going as far as saying ''Zoning is dead'' noway.

Uh no, they are superior. Theres only been 1 major where all the top names have come in, I can promise you in the next one there will be some counterpicking. And notice, there hasn't been a zoning to win a major as of yet. Its all been BA, Supes, Aqua, and Batman. Where is the adapting there? Fighting locals doesn't cost but the $20 in gas and the $10 at the door.

When theres 3k on the floor and you spent about half a grand just getting there, you are going to tell me people are going to "adapt" rather than "counter-pick"? I'll be the first to tell you that you are wrong. I can promise you every single person who has placed top 8 would trade ALL of those top 8s in for just one complete 1st place victory.

Top 8 isn't going to cover your plane ticket home or your hotel, it isn't going to get you sponsors or fame, its not going to feed you or get you to the next one. Its going to get you a pat on the back and a Big Mac.

 

[Zatoichi]

Doombawkz
Thank you for explaining what Dave's point is.

 

[MoldMan]

Im amazed slips deathstroke got 4th at UGT . I dobut he keeps him at evo

 

[jaym7018]

The addition of new characters, namely. You had a top set, and now two new people who change that set exist. And its not a stupid argument, if you have to choose to win 10k at Evo and be a low-tier hero, no opponent is going to respect you for picking that low tier. They are going to thank you for the free win and walk away with your money. Its not always pretty, but its the truth. Don't compete if you don't want to win, and the best way to win is to give yourself the best chanses.

There is no reason not to pick the best character in the game outside of favoritism. I play Bane, I main Bane. I can tell you firsthand that I am confident in Bane but at Evo top 32 I wouldn't be using him because all of that character love isn't going to cover my travel costs. Players aren't paid to play, they have to earn their keep. I'd rather sell out to Superman and cover my travel costs than be $300 in the hole to show off my b.23 resets with Bane.

How does this only apply to injustice? It sounds like to you there is no reson to pick anyone but akum cammy kabal etc etc.

 

[jaym7018]

Uh no, they are superior. Theres only been 1 major where all the top names have come in, I can promise you in the next one there will be some counterpicking. And notice, there hasn't been a zoning to win a major as of yet. Its all been BA, Supes, Aqua, and Batman. Where is the adapting there? Fighting locals doesn't cost but the $20 in gas and the $10 at the door.

When theres 3k on the floor and you spent about half a grand just getting there, you are going to tell me people are going to "adapt" rather than "counter-pick"? I'll be the first to tell you that you are wrong. I can promise you every single person who has placed top 8 would trade ALL of those top 8s in for just one complete 1st place victory.

Top 8 isn't going to cover your plane ticket home or your hotel, it isn't going to get you sponsors or fame, its not going to feed you or get you to the next one. Its going to get you a pat on the back and a Big Mac.

Chris g just won a major without using top tiers or counter picking.

 

[Doombawkz]

How does this only apply to injustice? It sounds like to you there is no reson to pick anyone but akum cammy kabal etc etc.

You guys assume I'm only talking about Injustice? Its the same everywhere, you pick to win. If you don't you are only messing your own odds up by doing so. I'm not going to glamorize picking who you like because at the top of the rung, it doesn't matter who you like. It matters what gets you the prize money and has you walking home a winner instead of a name in a top 8 bracket.

 

[Doombawkz]

Chris g just won a major without using top tiers.

Chris G used Green Arrow and outplayed the hell out of a lot of people. How do you know GA isn't a top tier?

Deciding who is a top tier takes longer than 2 months. Deciding that a character has a hard counter because they can't use half their kit without eating damage takes about 30 minutes. Also Chris G wins majors with MorriDoom Vergil. I'm sure he would kill to play someone else and not have to do fly-unfly cancels.

Especially with how the game is constantly evolving, changing, being patched. Theres going to be shifting MUs here and there, but character tools are what they are, and Batgirl/Scorp basically make Deathstroke/Cyborg/Sinestro irrelevant when you can just choose someone else and be on better odds.

 

[MoldMan]

Chris G had some favorable matches. His GA lost against BA and well he is freaking beast

 

[Blair Kirkley]

I also prefer rush down play-styles so less zoning the better. It just isn't fun IMO to trade projectiles. Especially when so many characters are at a HUGE disadvantage in this game.

 

[MorbidAltruism]

Chris G used Green Arrow and outplayed the hell out of a lot of people. How do you know GA isn't a top tier?

Deciding who is a top tier takes longer than 2 months. Deciding that a character has a hard counter because they can't use half their kit without eating damage takes about 30 minutes. Also Chris G wins majors with MorriDoom Vergil. I'm sure he would kill to play someone else and not have to do fly-unfly cancels.

According to REO and Tom Brady's tier list GA isn't top tier... so you know... it isn't debatable in this community.

 

[MoldMan]

I also prefer rush down play-styles so less zoning the better. It just isn't fun IMO to trade projectiles. Especially when so many characters are at a HUGE disadvantage in this game.

Like? Who?

 

[Doombawkz]

According to REO and Tom Brady's tier list GA isn't top tier... so you know... it isn't debatable in this community.

I also heard Bane is the worst character in the game. Yeah ok.

 

[Big Pampering]

Oh no, are zoners not S tiers anymore like in MK9?

Does this mean you have to work harder and be a better player to zone?

Oh how could they do this.

Oh. Just how.

How is MK zoning better than Injustice zoning when MK has Freddy and Kenshi? If Injustice had Freddy and Kenshi, I would never think about making this thread. MK's engine favors rush down characters, but there are some great zoning characters in the game. Injustice has mediocre zoning characters.

kabal and kenshi weren't S tier because of their zoning. kabal can easily just fuck you up close and kenshi outfootsies you with that charge, armor,d3, f3 and b2.

 

[Celerity]

Well-said.

I speak for the vast majority of tournament players when I say that I spend lots of time and money playing this game and I want to make sure that the characters I pick are at least top 10. But 2013'ers do not understand this mentality as most only play the game casually, so I am not sure why they are even posting in this thread.

Then pick a top 10 character, what the hell is your problem? If winning is your only priority, then why are you sitting here complaining that your favorite characters aren't viable instead of switching to a character you can win with?

People like you are the definition of scrubs. They don't perform as well as they expect to, and so they blame their failure on their character, the setup, the time of day, and they refuse to admit that any of their shortcomings are due to their own inadequacy. If you were half as good as you think you are, you'd stop bitching and pick one of the top-tier characters you keep complaining about, and you'd win every major. Thing is, you know deep down you aren't capable of doing that, so stay free and keep walking around on this self-inflicted crutch.

 

[x0Kakashi]

Uh no, they are superior. Theres only been 1 major where all the top names have come in, I can promise you in the next one there will be some counterpicking. And notice, there hasn't been a zoning to win a major as of yet. Its all been BA, Supes, Aqua, and Batman. Where is the adapting there? Fighting locals doesn't cost but the $20 in gas and the $10 at the door.

When theres 3k on the floor and you spent about half a grand just getting there, you are going to tell me people are going to "adapt" rather than "counter-pick"? I'll be the first to tell you that you are wrong.

Im not telling people not to counterpick, and the argument ''Zoners havent won a single major'' is not even valid. Why havent zoners been winning majors ? Its simple cuz the majority of the people play rushdown and the majority of the cast are non zoning characters thats why. And if I recall correctly this same thread was made when Deathstroke got nerfed saying RIP Deathstroke he wont be able to place top 8 at any tourny etc. That same wednesday Aris won WNF even tho its a local it still counts because you have great players participating who are also playing AM BA SM BM etc. Besides Aris, legend also placed top 8 with Sinestro at WNF and Slipps and woundcowboy were both in top 8 at ufgt and they both played agaisnt AM BA SM BM etc. So instead of jumping to conclusion, and calling out all the bad things about characters and make it look like zoning is dead we could look at what a character does have an optimize their toolkit. If you feel that your character is SOOO bad that he loses all MU despite all the tools he has than you should switch characters, and not nail your character to the ground.



m2dave
I have nothing agaisnt you, but your downtalking to newer members of this forums is disgusting who are you to label people and say they arent fit to judge these kinds of situations. Some of the people youre referring to as ''2013er'' including me have been playing FGs just as long or maybe even longer than you.

 

[jaym7018]

Chris G used Green Arrow and outplayed the hell out of a lot of people. How do you know GA isn't a top tier?

Deciding who is a top tier takes longer than 2 months. Deciding that a character has a hard counter because they can't use half their kit without eating damage takes about 30 minutes.

Jesus man you are talking out of voth sides of your mouth we cant determine a characters tier after 2 months but we can declare an entire play style dead? Doomsday counter GA pretty hard considering he can ignore ice arrow but chris g still won tourney with some of the beter doomsday players.

 

[MoldMan]

The only thing that gripes me about the zoning charcters really. Is zoning charcters really dont have great tools to counter anti zoners. Then you have mix breed charcters who are better than zoners,. then the actually zoners

 

[james1926]

How is MK zoning better than Injustice zoning when MK has Freddy and Kenshi? If Injustice had Freddy and Kenshi, I would never think about making this thread. MK's engine favors rush down characters, but there are some great zoning characters in the game. Injustice has mediocre zoning characters.

Freddy and Kenshi were DLC characters. Non-DLC zone characters (like Sindel, Kano, Noob) are as bad (or possibly worse) in MK as current zone characters are in Injustice. So, considering that we may have 5 more DLC, you can still may hope for a Freddy-type character.

 

[Doombawkz]

Then pick a top 10 character, what the hell is your problem? If winning is your only priority, then why are you sitting here complaining that your favorite characters aren't viable instead of switching to a character you can win with?

People like you are the definition of scrubs. They don't perform as well as they expect to, and so they blame their failure on their character, the setup, the time of day, and they refuse to admit that any of their shortcomings are due to their own inadequacy. If you were half as good as you think you are, you'd stop bitching and pick one of the top-tier characters you keep complaining about, and you'd win every major. Thing is, you know deep down you aren't capable of doing that, so stay free and keep walking around on this self-inflicted crutch.

Weren't you the one who said "pick to win is a stupid argument"?

He is giving his opinion on the state of the matter of how zoning in this game has become an obsolete feature. This isn't "Hurr my character isn't dabess so I'm gonna cry about it", this is a valid claim that is backed by the fact that the characters now have hard-counters. Theres no point to play them, meaning the OP has fulfilled its motive without regard to your interpretation of it. If you misunderstand it, that is your folly and not our problem. We will respect your opinion and your right to say it, but don't pass it off as fact in the form of a personal attack on someone whom is not even guilty of what you are accusing him of.

Why not look into the topic, read the posts and explainations and re-explainations of the main idea instead of resorting to mindless hate?

"Thing is, you know deep down you aren't capable of doing that, so stay free and keep walking around on this self-inflicted crutch."

 

[jaym7018]

The only thing that gripes me the zoning charcters really dont have great tools to counter anti zoners. Then you hace mix breed charcters who are better than zoning than. Then the actually zoners

If zoners had tools to counter anti zoners then they wouldnt be fucking anti zoners. I cant believe you just typed that.

 

[MorbidAltruism]

m2dave
I have nothing agaisnt you, but your downtalking to newer members of this forums is disgusting who are you to label people and say they arent fit to judge these kinds of situations. Some of the people youre referring to as ''2013er'' including me have been playing FGs just as long or maybe even longer than you.

Just wanted to say that you aren't a 2013er then...

 

[Celerity]

Weren't you the one who said "pick to win is a stupid argument"?

No way, I just said top characters will exist in every game, and it's literally impossible to create a good game where there isn't a best character. If you want to win and knowingly choose a different character, you're not really allowed to complain about your character being weak. The information is there, so use it.

 

[Doombawkz]

Im not telling people not to counterpick, and the argument ''Zoners havent won a single major'' is not even valid. Why havent zoners been winning majors ? Its simple cuz the majority of the people play rushdown and the majority of the cast are non zoning characters thats why. And if I recall correctly this same thread was made when Deathstroke got nerfed saying RIP Deathstroke he wont be able to place top 8 at any tourny etc. That same wednesday Aris won WNF even tho its a local it still counts because you have great players participating who are also playing AM BA SM BM etc. Besides Aris, legend also placed top 8 with Sinestro at WNF and Slipps and woundcowboy were both in top 8 at ufgt and they both played agaisnt AM BA SM BM etc. So instead of jumping to conclusion, and calling out all the bad things about characters and make it look like zoning is dead we could look at what a character does have an optimize their toolkit. If you feel that your character is SOOO bad that he loses all MU despite all the tools he has than you should switch characters, and not nail your character to the ground.



m2dave
I have nothing agaisnt you, but your downtalking to newer members of this forums is disgusting who are you to label people and say they arent fit to judge these kinds of situations. Some of the people youre referring to as ''2013er'' including me have been playing FGs just as long or maybe even longer than you.

Dave has shot himself in the foot, that was then and this is now. Tell me what that topic has to do, directly, with what this topic is trying to convey?

You must've missed the "this isn't for new players" thing I put in my quote of you earlier.
Why do people pick rush-down and go away from Zoners? Why would people bother to pick them now that they have hard counters?

Why play a MU and struggle to adapt and fight with only half your kit? If you are competeting, there isn't any reason to.
Plain and simple, at the top level this kind of mindset you have will get you booted out of pools faster than you can say "YEAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH".

 

[Doombawkz]

No way, I just said top characters will exist in every game, and it's literally impossible to create a good game where there isn't a best character. If you want to win and knowingly choose a different character, you're not really allowed to complain about your character being weak. The information is there, so use it.

Fair enough, when you use a character who has hard counters and you get countered at a top level and find yourself unable to make the next tourney because "I tried to adapt" or "But he has these other tools" then you can't complain about sitting at home eating cup o' soup and watching where you could've been had you chosen to pick the better character.