Awesome Argument on WNF

[CaliJokerstyle]

So is that what this is? One big lazy beta test?

Beta testing can only do so much, limited resources

 

[PSN]

So when does the war of the words start on this stream anyway?

 

[Organelle]

So when does the war of the words start on this stream anyway?

I think someone said an hour and 15 minutes into it earlier in the thread.

 

[REO]

This is what I said before MK9 even came out, they even added the dash which was never in MK until MK9. What I think happened was, was that NRS looked at successful tournament games, and tried to implement some of the aspects of those games into MK9. On one hand you can say "good job, they're taking an interest in the tournament community", but on the other you can say "that just proves that they can't make a tournament worthy game on their own". One of the reasons that UMK3 has survived for 16+ years is because of how unique it is, and that it's a great competitive game and tournament viable. That's what NRS failed to realize imo. They already had a great starting point with UMK3, instead of asking themselves why UMK3 has been successful and is still played today, building on that and adding more uniqueness, they just copied other fighters making it a generic fighter.

I agree with most of what you said but disagree on UMK:3 being much unique. At first glance, UMK:3 does seem very unique, it actually is when compared to other fighters. But when you get into the game, it is generic as hell among itself. Why is it that you can learn the game with one character then pretty much know how to play every other character by default and can random select with ease? Playing the game with generic run jabs / knee starters for pressure, D+4 to escape pressure, etc. Every character is basically played the same with just slight differences here and there.

I agree they should rebuild the UMK:3 engine (as it definitely was their best and gave a true identity for MK) but it will need a lot of work on making characters play differently and unique.

 

[PSN]

Run jabs are shit.

 

[Wax]

Only thing that pissed me off was that i felt like ski was saying its alright for the game to be like this.
I have no problem with nrs relesaing a game that needs work to get into evo, but when you have a game that has block infinites and glitches that are so bad that it renders the game virtually unplayable for tornements, expect pepoole to be upset and not want to play. Ive seen so many peploe drop this game from glitches to lag.
Another thing, ski kept saying that develpers come in on the weekends and spend earnd money on patches, well good you only get payed to do it once. If they had done it right the first time they wouldnt have be in the studio on the weekends.
This game is borderline broken how can you have 10,000 dollers on the line and a block infinites on the screen or a character (who shall remain nameless) that can do an Xray as many times as he wants a round. Stuff like that is unacceptable.

 

[Sub-0110]

Only thing that pissed me off was that i felt like ski was saying its alright for the game to be like this.
I have no problem with nrs relesaing a game that needs work to get into evo, but when you have a game that has block infinites and glitches that are so bad that it renders the game virtually unplayable for tornements, expect pepoole to be upset and not want to play. Ive seen so many peploe drop this game from glitches to lag.
Another thing, ski kept saying that develpers come in on the weekends and spend earnd money on patches, well good you only get payed to do it once. If they had done it right the first time they wouldnt have be in the studio on the weekends.
This game is borderline broken how can you have 10,000 dollers on the line and a block infinites on the screen or a character (who shall remain nameless) that can do an Xray as many times as he wants a round. Stuff like that is unacceptable.

Totally agree.
NRS is not doing us a favor. The game needs patching. These kind of issues should have been addressed to pre release. Well its upto them now, NRS can build their name or destroy it with their own actions.

 

[Juggs]

I agree with most of what you said but disagree on UMK:3 being much unique. At first glance, UMK:3 does seem very unique, it actually is when compared to other fighters. But when you get into the game, it is generic as hell among itself. Why is it that you can learn the game with one character then pretty much know how to play every other character by default and can random select with ease? Playing the game with generic run jabs / knee starters for pressure, D+4 to escape pressure, etc. Every character is basically played the same with just slight differences here and there.

I agree they should rebuild the UMK:3 engine (as it definitely was their best and gave a true identity for MK) but it will need a lot of work on making characters play differently and unique.

Well yeah, the game is unique, but the characters aren't very unique from one another. That's dealing more with character depth though. If they were to build on to, remake, revise or w/e with UMK3, making the characters have more depth or more unique from one another, those would be things that should be done. But even without the character depth, UMK3 is a very unique game, even from most of the MK games. I don't see that for MK9.

Now, uniqueness isn't everything, and it's impossible these days to have a truly unique game, I realize that. It's just something that has always drawn me to MK. The MK team can't even make their own games "good", so when they copy other fighting game aspects, it's always going to be a watered down version of the original. They did take stuff from MK2 and UMK3 and put it in MK9, but not the facets that make the games truly competitive and tournament viable. You want to know why? It's because they don't have a fucking clue what makes these games high level and tournament viable. That's just how I see it.

 

[Zebster]

So is that what this is? One big lazy beta test?

Didn't they release the game early so that it could get into EVO?

Dang yet ANOTHER generic thing I left out in my previous post. Same health for every character. Different health adds depth to the game.

Not sure I agree with this one. (especially the way Capcom did it for SF4... I mean really Ono, you are going to admit the girls have less health because they are girls? smh)

 

[Cat]

As quick as those patches started coming out (day one?), it leads me to believe they knew what they were doing. Maybe the powers that be at Warner didn't really leave them a choice, but who really knows?

That's dumb. It's not like they knew all these bugs existed before release. They were found out later. And that's in most games they can't release a perfect game. For example. Mvc3 the most unfinished game ever. Lacking so many features. Infinitesimal galore game breaking glitches that could win you a match. And lots of bugs.

 

[GNG Iniquity]

Eh...I don't really know how to approach this game anymore. Everything stated in this thread has been dead on accurate. The beans are there but where's the damn meat? I don't see this game going back to EVO, I think this game was solely created to give anyone the impression that they too can become a tournament level player due to the limited depth in this game. So, paired with the delusion of this game actually performing well in a tournament level with dedicated players and the gimmick of fatalities to pull in average Joe they've pulled in some record sales here. There's been little to no energy actively spent on the patch to fix these garbage infinities and exploits.

But, hey! You can get your 'klassic kostumes' for $5! And soon you'll have Scarlet too for $14.95!

It's blatantly obvious what 'direction' NRS are going to take this game.

 

[GNG Iniquity]

That's dumb. It's not like they knew all these bugs existed before release. They were found out later. And that's in most games they can't release a perfect game. For example. Mvc3 the most unfinished game ever. Lacking so many features. Infinitesimal galore game breaking glitches that could win you a match. And lots of bugs.

It's not a valid argument where there's a sub-forum for glitch reporting here. All NRS have to do is visit that forum and fix it...mainly people just want Kabal's infinite string, JC's infinite x-ray removed and Kano's up ball fixed. How difficult is this? NRS are just being negligent.

Leave the rest of the game alone, I don't trust NRS making blind 'improvements' to characters after the damn Kano fiasco.

 

[Cat]

It's not a valid argument where there's a sub-forum for glitch reporting here. All NRS have to do is visit that forum and fix it...mainly people just want Kabal's infinite string, JC's infinite x-ray removed and Kano's up ball fixed. How difficult is this? NRS are just being negligent.

Leave the rest of the game alone, I don't trust NRS making blind 'improvements' to characters after the damn Kano fiasco.

Well anyways it will take time. It's not like they can fix stuff overnight as soon as it's found. Plus they have to get it approved by m$ and Sony. But it has been to long not to remove kabals block inf and bomb traps. But idk why they don't just ban ppl from abusing that at tournaments till it's fixed

 

[GNG Iniquity]

They'll have to appoint a ref at EVO who's familiar with the infinities to enforce this, however that wastes someone's time and resources, when the developers themselves should've taken this upon themselves to begin with. It's just a very half-assed solution and makes NRS look bad in this day and age.

 

[Cat]

I have hope this will be patched before Evo. Tom did said the patch was already done but they are running it through m$ and Psn.

 

[GNG Iniquity]

Hope so.

 

[Klaudikus]

Blizzard is a bad example man they are a big one that does not live up to their promises but i get what you are saying.

Not to mention a cash cow funds them.

 

[CaliJokerstyle]

I'm not saying I disagree with anything but I will say you need to realize what actually goes into making these games and how much red tape and political crap happens. Give it a chance if by EVO they have not fixed when it comes to real glitches then they deserve the fall

 

[PANDEMlC]

I agreed with everyone a bit. Ski has the right mindset though overall. Just be happy NRS is patching constantly and listening to us. They could just as easily ignore us and cater to the casual fatality loving crowd and they would be perfectly fine. The patch will be out before EVO, sure it sucks it's not out now but get over it. Tom was pitching a fit, some of it justified but god damn it's not the end of the world.

They all had good points, even Aris saying that NRS bit off more than they could chew. Sure they did, but I'm thankful they're trying.


- Also, shoutouts to HellFromAbove getting torn apart. Funny to see someone I know a little show up. He's a Arakune BlazBlue player.

 

[GNG Iniquity]

I'm trying to remain optimistic, and I hope most of the players are as well, but we're all extremely frustrated. Can you honestly blame Tom for being this upset about these disappointments when he's invested so much energy and time into this game?

Hell, I'm mentally strained and extremely frustrated and I'm just a casual player compared to Tom.

 

[EternityInBlack]

This is probably not my area of expertise since I'm coming from a more casual perspective, but I do know for a fact that if a patch (not a hot fix) needs to be put out that it needs to go through Sony and MS' certification process before release... and that takes a substantial amount of time. If a mere hotfix would've been released, then that's another story entirely. Though I didn't really recall anything official coming directly out of NRS in regards of a patch/hot fix. I saw hot fix notes for one allegedly coming out this past Tuesday, but I don't really see where that information's being obtained either.

I think if anything NRS just needs to be more transparent about what they're working on so that people can be ensured that shit's getting fixed. It's not enough that they're going to tournaments and watching things happen as they do and then fix them. Encouraging people to play the game other than by doing DLC characters and costumes is needed.

On a side note, I like MK9 the way that it is right now since its simple and deep enough that I can enjoy the game in either short spurts or extended periods of time. But I do agree with people who say that even though the designs of each character are different and combo execution and setups are different that people can't help but feel that the roster and their move sets are "generic," or, play one character and know how to use basically everybody... with a few exceptions. Would different normals and removing the 50/50 throws be better? Maybe. But, at the end of the day, I wouldn't want MK to wind up being like SF and lose its identity.

 

[THTB]

I mean hell, they gave everyone a zoning tool and almost everyone a damn teleport. How generic is that?

But, but...it's been that way since UMK3... T_T

 

[Organelle]

Only thing that pissed me off was that i felt like ski was saying its alright for the game to be like this.
I have no problem with nrs relesaing a game that needs work to get into evo, but when you have a game that has block infinites and glitches that are so bad that it renders the game virtually unplayable for tornements, expect pepoole to be upset and not want to play. Ive seen so many peploe drop this game from glitches to lag.
Another thing, ski kept saying that develpers come in on the weekends and spend earnd money on patches, well good you only get payed to do it once. If they had done it right the first time they wouldnt have be in the studio on the weekends.
This game is borderline broken how can you have 10,000 dollers on the line and a block infinites on the screen or a character (who shall remain nameless) that can do an Xray as many times as he wants a round. Stuff like that is unacceptable.

I completely agree. The extra leg work is not a favor to us, it is them trying to save their name after self tarnishing it in the tourney scene.

 

[Robotic]

Sure thing.

It lacks any real depth because there are no links, no real footsies, can't bait tech throws because it's a 50/50 guessing game, everyone has the same neutral jump punch, kick, jump forward punch and kick, same crouching pokes that do not link into combos, and EVERYTHING causes DAMAGE on BLOCK which allows no real wake up game because at a pixel of life left you can literally get POKED to death.

This makes for a very generic fighter and the meta game SUFFERS because of it. Has everything been found out yet? No but this is no Super Turbo - trust me. It won't take long to figure everything out to be honest. I would be shocked if a year from now there would be some new Kung technology or Ermac's won't still be using 22 xx lift for max damage.

Do you see what I mean?

Jesus, man, good points. WHY YOU TALK ME INTO PLAYING SSF4 AGAIN? hehehe. As an aside, remember in the old days playing one-on-one b-ball when you had to beat your friend by 2 to win? I completely agree with how preposterous it is to get poked into the loss column. I would LOVE it if once you reached a specific life level, normals stopped chipping. How hard would that be to implement? What a difference that would make...

 

[Lord Beef]

Jesus, man, good points. WHY YOU TALK ME INTO PLAYING SSF4 AGAIN? hehehe. As an aside, remember in the old days playing one-on-one b-ball when you had to beat your friend by 2 to win? I completely agree with how preposterous it is to get poked into the loss column. I would LOVE it if once you reached a specific life level, normals stopped chipping. How hard would that be to implement? What a difference that would make...

+1 !!

-b_s- :headbang: