Match-up Discussion My thoughts on the Shazam Matchup Chart.

[ZigZag]

It shouldn't, but it does.

Is there a video on the tech?

 

[Doombawkz]

Is there a video on the tech?

Not at the moment. As I said, its testable and it has been applied in matches. Not many of us Banes have recording equipment, though its not all that hard to do. You could probably set a Shazam to teleport and just work out the timing after about 5 mins.

 

[Heroic_Legacy]

Its not a 6-4 in your favor, and we have it as 6-4 in our favor because of this new tech. Wanna settle on a 5-5?

Wow this stuff is dirty.

 

[Doombawkz]

Wow this stuff is dirty.

What stuff? The Aug Tech?
You guys have something similar, you know. It'll really help in your MU against Ares.

 

[NYCj360]

I don't see how ds isn't a bad matchup for shazaam. The more I play against shazaam the more I discover his flaws. The zoning alone is an issue. Once up close it becomes a game of who has the momentum which I understand is even. But the fact that shazaam has to work harder to land a hit prevents this from being a 5-5 imo. It's not ridiculously in ds favor but he definitely has an easier time

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[Doombawkz]

I don't see how ds isn't a bad matchup for shazaam. The more I play against shazaam the more I discover his flaws. The zoning alone is an issue. Once up close it becomes a game of who has the momentum which I understand is even. But the fact that shazaam has to work harder to land a hit prevents this from being a 5-5 imo. It's not ridiculously in ds favor but he definitely has an easier time

Shazam Vortex isn't the greatest BUT more than enough for deathstroke and his lackluster wake-up ability. That and he doesn't have a definite answer for the teleport on wake-up. 5-5 is more than fair enough imo, especially with his ability to keep you out removed.

 

[Heroic_Legacy]

Just tested for about 20 minutes, Shazam never turned around once where I got Ares turning around consistently. Probably has to do with the fact Shazam's teleport is distance based, not character relevant. Still say 6-4 in our favor. Also of note is even if your b1 tech worked against our teleport, Herculean Might is still an invincible wakeup that'd beat b1.

 

[NYCj360]

Shazam Vortex isn't the greatest BUT more than enough for deathstroke and his lackluster wake-up ability. That and he doesn't have a definite answer for the teleport on wake-up. 5-5 is more than fair enough imo, especially with his ability to keep you out removed.

His guns are still an issue for a lot of characters including shazaam they just aren't mindless anymore. We can't rule out the fact that the vortex isn't guaranteed thanks to push block and just generally good reads, invincible sword spin if raw grab is read or just block or swordflip depending on jump height and arch. Not to theory fight but its the same way any characters frame traps get picked apart in this game. It may just be me and my ability to defend well but I really don't have too many issues in this matchup. Imo its 6-4 just because of deathstrokes overall screen control but then again its just my opinion and can be argued in every direction

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[Doombawkz]

Just tested for about 20 minutes, Shazam never turned around once where I got Ares turning around consistently. Probably has to do with the fact Shazam's teleport is distance based, not character relevant. Still say 6-4 in our favor. Also of note is even if your b1 tech worked against our teleport, Herculean Might is still an invincible wakeup that'd beat b1.

Works for me, you sure you are doing it right? Also even if it didn't work (which goes against our testing) you guys don't have anything we fear, honestly we can still just neutral meaty body splash everything on wake-up as well. Our armor comes free with every purchase, and we don't need meter to do more than 30%.

Also I guess you didn't watch the other video either about the whiff cancel punish or whatever, Aris made a video on it. We can cancel b.1 into special and it'll go through your wake-up and armor the hit.

OR We can just charge you relentlessly since its grab immune. You guys don't have a definite answer for that either aside from hoping teleport works. It eats most everything else. Too slow to really counter our frame traps as well, and theres not much you can do aside from try and zone with the super slow low chip easy to avoid lightning bolts we can just charge through and punish from full screen.

 

[Doombawkz]

His guns are still an issue for a lot of characters including shazaam they just aren't mindless anymore. We can't rule out the fact that the vortex isn't guaranteed thanks to push block and just generally good reads, invincible sword spin if raw grab is read or just block or swordflip depending on jump height and arch. Not to theory fight but its the same way any characters frame traps get picked apart in this game. It may just be me and my ability to defend well but I really don't have too many issues in this matchup. Imo its 6-4 just because of deathstrokes overall screen control but then again its just my opinion and can be argued in every direction

Guns aren't that big of an issue for anyone who can block and dash anymore.
Also, he can stay in your face and keep punching you. Why, you may ask?

What will you do when he blocks your wake-up and chases you around? You'll have to depend on your reads to either wake-up with an attack to avoid the meaty command grab, or risk a full combo punish with every single oki situation. Its the reason Bane beats Deathstroke, we can get in and we have a lot more time to plan than you do. Between the one who acts and the one who is forced to react, theres no real question as to who the advantage lies with.

You depend on that screen control, but you still need space to do it. When your options are sealed off and you have to make those decisions off of the limited information and utilities you have, that's when the real match starts. Not for theory fighting, sure, but theres no denying that Deathstroke has a weak wake-up game and not many viable tools to do so with while Shazam does have some existing vortex capability and not a half bad rushing game to boot. He is a bit hard to muster the distance with but if you don't get impatient its worth the 10% in chip to watch you bring yourself to the corner where Shazam really shines.

 

[killa_solid]

I gotta say I agree with the Bane players. Bane wins the mu. Shazam has a hard time dealing with all that armor. People are severely underestimating Bane's armor through everything game style. It's not a good day when you have to rush Bane and that's all shazam has in this mu.

 

[Doombawkz]

I gotta say I agree with the Bane players. Bane wins the mu. Shazam has a hard time dealing with all that armor. People are severely underestimating Bane's armor through everything game style. It's not a good day when you have to rush Bane and that's all shazam has in this mu.

Bane player* and I will agree its a 5-5 if they will. The Aug tech does work, and even with the teleport the kick itself has next to no ending frames so we can neutral grab (which, mind you, autocorrects) and catch you out of it. We have a vortex, they have a vortex, etc etc.

 

[Heroic_Legacy]

Float like butterfly sting like bee.

If you charge at us in neutral we can teleport through and get a full combo punish thanks to hidden invulnerable armor.

Neutral jump body splashing comes at the price of getting knocked down since you just jumped with a normal and allotted yourself frames to get trip guarded instead of just landing. Answers for answers, I'd say theoretically it turns into a 5-5 now.

 

[Doombawkz]

Float like butterfly sting like bee.

If you charge at us in neutral we can teleport through and get a full combo punish thanks to hidden invulnerable armor.

Neutral jump body splashing comes at the price of getting knocked down since you just jumped with a normal and allotted yourself frames to get trip guarded instead of just landing. Answers for answers, I'd say theoretically it turns into a 5-5 now.

Its not hidden, its always been in plain sight... and that's a judgement call since we can just b.1 and go from there. Your teleport and every other tool you have loses to b.1 on wake-up since we can click it into venom for pretty much anything else. I'll head to the lab to get more answers than you, I'll agree to a 5-5 but if you wish to challenge me I have no quarrel with trading tech.

b.1 throw doesn't auto-correct unless I delay it, its too far from point blank anyways. Now then, that means your answer has to be advancing since eluding doesn't punish out the charge. Assuming you do that, what stops me from backdashing at the end of my huge advantage strings or resets?
The idea of eluding, but that would be a guess that I would be backdashing.

 

[NYCj360]

Guns aren't that big of an issue for anyone who can block and dash anymore.
Also, he can stay in your face and keep punching you. Why, you may ask?

What will you do when he blocks your wake-up and chases you around? You'll have to depend on your reads to either wake-up with an attack to avoid the meaty command grab, or risk a full combo punish with every single oki situation. Its the reason Bane beats Deathstroke, we can get in and we have a lot more time to plan than you do. Between the one who acts and the one who is forced to react, theres no real question as to who the advantage lies with.

You depend on that screen control, but you still need space to do it. When your options are sealed off and you have to make those decisions off of the limited information and utilities you have, that's when the real match starts. Not for theory fighting, sure, but theres no denying that Deathstroke has a weak wake-up game and not many viable tools to do so with while Shazam does have some existing vortex capability and not a half bad rushing game to boot. He is a bit hard to muster the distance with but if you don't get impatient its worth the 10% in chip to watch you bring yourself to the corner where Shazam really shines.

Almost every single one of desthstrokes strings along with grabs reset positioning back to full screen. The entire meta game of deathstroke is to create space and control it. Deathstroke is better up close the far now as opposed to pre patch he was equally as good far away. I really hope you don't think I'm pulling this out of my ass. I played these matches out at ect as well as against a superb bane and shazaam for a few hours this passed weekend. I don't mind an up close fight, I get my 36% meterless and regain position if I gain the hit. I'm fully aware of how good both bane and shazaam are. Trust me I am definitely not downplaying those characters, but now that you bring bane in to this what is bane really doing to ds? I'm fully aware of the properties of.venom and pay attention to it all match. I just play it patient and once the venom runs out I continue my offense. If venom didn't debuff bane after it wore off I would agree with you, but the fact that you take less damage, get hit harder and become slower make this match grueling unless you're playing someone who has no idea what they are doing against bane. This is definitely not in banes favor.

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[NYCj360]

Float like butterfly sting like bee.

If you charge at us in neutral we can teleport through and get a full combo punish thanks to hidden invulnerable armor.

Neutral jump body splashing comes at the price of getting knocked down since you just jumped with a normal and allotted yourself frames to get trip guarded instead of just landing. Answers for answers, I'd say theoretically it turns into a 5-5 now.

Jesus Christ this is mk9 all over again. This is bad if a shazaam baits this

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[killa_solid]

Jesus Christ this is mk9 all over again. This is bad if a shazaam baits this

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There is a lot more he can do with this, I made a post with a few videos here. It's a great tool if used correctly. there is some anti deathstoke stuff in there too. Might make you change your mind about the mu.
http://testyourmight.com/threads/using-mercury-storm-for-special-punishes.33283/#post-902091

 

[Doombawkz]

Also funny thing, if you ever corner us and we get a hard knockdown, even if you teleport behind us our super will actually whip us around and catch you. Its actually pretty funny. Try it, go to practice and pick bane, put yourself in the corner and d.3, then as the teleport comes out use super. Eventually you'll see what I mean.

 

[NYCj360]

There is a lot more he can do with this, I made a post with a few videos here. It's a great tool if used correctly. there is some anti deathstoke stuff in there too. Might make you change your mind about the mu.
http://testyourmight.com/threads/using-mercury-storm-for-special-punishes.33283/#post-902091

I checked out the video on the ds punish thats awesome stuff man. Once again the entire vortex is read based but I will say that is a great addition to it, now I have to worry about waking up as well :/. I have no choice but to avoid the situation all together as best as I can, I come from a game where one hit ends the game and there were a million more ways to hit someone so I know I can avoid it here too lol.

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[Doombawkz]

Almost every single one of desthstrokes strings along with grabs reset positioning back to full screen. The entire meta game of deathstroke is to create space and control it. Deathstroke is better up close the far now as opposed to pre patch he was equally as good far away. I really hope you don't think I'm pulling this out of my ass. I played these matches out at ect as well as against a superb bane and shazaam for a few hours this passed weekend. I don't mind an up close fight, I get my 36% meterless and regain position if I gain the hit. I'm fully aware of how good both bane and shazaam are. Trust me I am definitely not downplaying those characters, but now that you bring bane in to this what is bane really doing to ds? I'm fully aware of the properties of.venom and pay attention to it all match. I just play it patient and once the venom runs out I continue my offense. If venom didn't debuff bane after it wore off I would agree with you, but the fact that you take less damage, get hit harder and become slower make this match grueling unless you're playing someone who has no idea what they are doing against bane. This is definitely not in banes favor.

What happens when we knock you down once? Even just once, what answer do you have? If its something that's unsafe on block (most everything), you'll be put into the exact same situation. Even if its not, you can't force me back out and you don't have enough of a backdash to distance yourself...

Unless you are assuming Deathstroke is on equal ground with Bane in close quarters, which I'll be the first to say he isn't. This isn't including the armor, and the limited time you have to actually decide. You have next to no wake-up, which is something you happened to not mention. You are weakest where we are strongest. You get 36% meterless? We get about 60-100% if we bother to try.

And every guess must be done in 8 frames worth of time, I should note.

 

[NYCj360]

Also funny thing, if you ever corner us and we get a hard knockdown, even if you teleport behind us our super will actually whip us around and catch you. Its actually pretty funny. Try it, go to practice and pick bane, put yourself in the corner and d.3, then as the teleport comes out use super. Eventually you'll see what I mean.

Banes wake up Oki is so annoying. People really think he's the worst which I whole heartedly disagree with

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[Doombawkz]

So 5-5 is nice and all, no lie.
I wanna play some of you shazams now. This would be a fun match indeed.

 

[EGP Wonder_Chef]

I REALLY think Shazam vs Bane is Shazam's favor.

 

[EGP Wonder_Chef]

J3? Whiff punish it with f22 or d3. Space yourself so it won't hit. Backdash even, just don't deal with the move at all. Not worth your time you're going to lose all the time. Luckily the game has ridiculous trip guard so if a Stroke just jumpin at you or neutral jumping just whiff punish him. B2 f22 d3 bf2 all good whiff punishers for whiffed jump attacks.

Nightwing is indeed a problem matchup. Though to what extent I am not entirely sure yet.

There's no great way to get yourself into the spacing where you can whiff punish j3.

If you backdash on reaction he will recover faster than you, and you lose space, which is obviously bad against Deathstroke.

Obviously walk speed is too slow.

Can't forward dash under either since it has such a huge crossup hitbox.

 

[MashPotatoTower]

2 batgirl MUs?