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Match-up Discussion My thoughts on the Shazam Matchup Chart.

SmokeMaster

I got no time for whining!!!
I REALLY think Shazam vs Bane is Shazam's favor.
It totally is all you have to do is build meter with his teleports frustrate your opponent into doing dashes and jumpins to close space. Punish dashes with AT and jumpins with Bolts when needed. No need to try to punish his charge move. Just teleport past him when he trys to get bold with it and build more meter. Get full meter and he better not even try charging, jumping, or dashing at you to close space. It's a free Super if he does. I really think it's a 7-3 matchup for Shazam.
 

EGP Wonder_Chef

Official Quan Chi Nerf Demander™
It totally is all you have to do is build meter with his teleports frustrate your opponent into doing dashes and jumpins to close space. Punish dashes with AT and jumpins with Bolts when needed. No need to try to punish his charge move. Just teleport past him when he trys to get bold with it and build more meter. Get full meter and he better not even try charging, jumping, or dashing at you to close space. It's a free Super if he does. I really think it's a 7-3 matchup for Shazam.
Well if he tries that crappy charge move you can just full punish it by teleporting through it.
 

SmokeMaster

I got no time for whining!!!
Well if he tries that crappy charge move you can just full punish it by teleporting through it.
Absolutely true. I want my opponent to keep doing it though. I never punish it hard unless completely necessary. Which never happens as long as I effectively zone Bane out.
 

PND_Ketchup

"More deadly than the dawn"
Lol at the fact people are saying shazam can't do anything because it's hard to wakeup.

Y'know, you don't HAVE to wake up attack every single time in a match. What about when Shazam manages to get in and apply his vortex? I don't play either character, but I'm just pointing out that the Bane player will have to get in first, and even then, how much will the Bane know? I see a lot of people talking about all this "tech" nut I never see it in action, and the tech I do see doesn't work against a smart opponent.
 

PND_Mustard

"More stealthful than the night"
Premium Supporter
this is not a winning MU for Bane. i'm saying 5-5, or 6-4 Shazam at worst. Bane has to guess out of the vortex just like everyone else, and Shazam can do a simple job of staying away due to his teleport.

being able to stuff his teleport on wakeup doesn't make it good for Bane. if you're just gonna keep b1'ing him on every wakeup he'll just backdash instead and you're back to square one.
 

NYCj360

i Use a modded cyber now
What happens when we knock you down once? Even just once, what answer do you have? If its something that's unsafe on block (most everything), you'll be put into the exact same situation. Even if its not, you can't force me back out and you don't have enough of a backdash to distance yourself...

Unless you are assuming Deathstroke is on equal ground with Bane in close quarters, which I'll be the first to say he isn't. This isn't including the armor, and the limited time you have to actually decide. You have next to no wake-up, which is something you happened to not mention. You are weakest where we are strongest. You get 36% meterless? We get about 60-100% if we bother to try.

And every guess must be done in 8 frames worth of time, I should note.
I don't understand why you are basing the matchup off of wake ups. I don't have to wake up every time you know. And the whole point of the mixup game is that we both have to guess. If you don't jump I can sword spin safely. If you do jump then its time to guess. And your damage is situational with both meter and venom man let's be honest here. Your super does 14% when venom runs out and all your combo damage goes to Shit. I don't know what kind of death strokes you are basing this off of but do not make the mistake of under rating
Death stroke. I don't think you understand the options death stroke has for spacing and the frame traps he has on characters like bane/doomsday/lex luthor up close. Match ups are not based off of one situation, but by what options the characters posses in a collection of situations and which have to work less to get the same end result. You need to get up close to just posses a possible even fight as opposed to deathstroke who has options available at all parts of the level. I'm open to discuss the matchup but don't dismiss options over one favored situation.

RapZiLLa54 as a bane player what do you think ds vs bane? Honestly
Sent from my HTC Sensation 4G with Beats Audio using Tapatalk 2
 

RapZiLLa54

Monster Island Tournaments
RapZiLLa54 as a bane player what do you think ds vs bane? Honestly
Sent from my HTC Sensation 4G with Beats Audio using Tapatalk 2
7-3 optimistically 8-2 realistically in Deathstrokes favor. DS frame traps up close Bane has no answer to without Venom and deathstroke full screen wins since lvl 3 venom can't go through any of DS MB projectiles.
 

Doombawkz

Trust me, I'm a doctor
I don't understand why you are basing the matchup off of wake ups. I don't have to wake up every time you know. And the whole point of the mixup game is that we both have to guess. If you don't jump I can sword spin safely. If you do jump then its time to guess. And your damage is situational with both meter and venom man let's be honest here. Your super does 14% when venom runs out and all your combo damage goes to Shit. I don't know what kind of death strokes you are basing this off of but do not make the mistake of under rating
Death stroke. I don't think you understand the options death stroke has for spacing and the frame traps he has on characters like bane/doomsday/lex luthor up close. Match ups are not based off of one situation, but by what options the characters posses in a collection of situations and which have to work less to get the same end result. You need to get up close to just posses a possible even fight as opposed to deathstroke who has options available at all parts of the level. I'm open to discuss the matchup but don't dismiss options over one favored situation.

RapZiLLa54 as a bane player what do you think ds vs bane? Honestly
Sent from my HTC Sensation 4G with Beats Audio using Tapatalk 2
Its 14% if I decide to go level 3, and why I would be using super while on cooldown makes me wonder what Banes YOU must be playing. If you don't wake up at all you'll have to face the danger of having me still sitting in your face for the entire match, which being I have longer reach and the better frame traps is something you don't want. You don't want Bane being up close, because despite having all these screen controlling options none of them matter if you can't have the screen to work with. If 10/10 of your kit is made for the screen control, you are only getting to use 2/10 of it while I'm using my full 10/10 when I'm up close.

The thing about Bane is once your back hits the ground, that's where the match is decided. Between resets and oki, that's basically how you fight Bane is on wake-up. You may not agree with it, but when you have the chance of never standing up again because of how strong my oki is and how weak your wake-up is, that's what decides the match. Between a Gief and a Guile, its not a matter of every single factor so much as its a matter of if Guile can stay away from Gief long enough and avoid his oki. Believe it or not, if you never have a chance to fight back because you are constantly being put into oki guesses over and over again (your weakest area) then the match will become based around that one situation.


Why we are talking about this in the shazam match-ups I'll never know, but if you wanna talk more about it you are welcome to take it to Bane country.
 

Doombawkz

Trust me, I'm a doctor
7-3 optimistically 8-2 realistically in Deathstrokes favor. DS frame traps up close Bane has no answer to without Venom and deathstroke full screen wins since lvl 3 venom can't go through any of DS MB projectiles.
The sheer amount of downplay in this post is disgusting. Also the inaccuracy. Level 3 venom is projectile immune, or didn't you know?

I'm guessing you didn't.
 

Doombawkz

Trust me, I'm a doctor
this is not a winning MU for Bane. i'm saying 5-5, or 6-4 Shazam at worst. Bane has to guess out of the vortex just like everyone else, and Shazam can do a simple job of staying away due to his teleport.

being able to stuff his teleport on wakeup doesn't make it good for Bane. if you're just gonna keep b1'ing him on every wakeup he'll just backdash instead and you're back to square one.
I'll trust YOUR opinion, I still feel like its 5-5 though. And its not just the teleport, but that was something I wanted to get out of the way.
If he backdashes every wake-up though you know we have options for that too though.
 

RapZiLLa54

Monster Island Tournaments
The sheer amount of downplay in this post is disgusting. Also the inaccuracy. Level 3 venom is projectile immune, or didn't you know?

I'm guessing you didn't.
Its not. Any projectile OVER three hits beats his lvl 3 charge. IE GL mini gun or MB low shots, standard shots, assault rifle.
 

Doombawkz

Trust me, I'm a doctor
Its not. Any projectile OVER three hits beats his lvl 3 charge. IE GL mini gun or MB low shots, standard shots, assault rifle.
It is. GL minigun isn't counted towards the total for some odd reason or another. The rest of them don't even touch our armor.
 

Doombawkz

Trust me, I'm a doctor
J360 knocked me out of it several times in our matches
I welcome you to try it against me then, though I can't imagine why you'd be charging from that far I also can't imagine our projectile immune mode being hit by deathstroke projectiles. Assult rifle especially since its about 7 hits and we go through all of them.
 

RapZiLLa54

Monster Island Tournaments
I welcome you to try it against me then, though I can't imagine why you'd be charging from that far I also can't imagine our projectile immune mode being hit by deathstroke projectiles. Assult rifle especially since its about 7 hits and we go through all of them.

If its "immune" why would distance matter?
 

Doombawkz

Trust me, I'm a doctor
If its "immune" why would distance matter?
Because its common knowledge to not charge an enemy at full screen because of the easy jump over into full combo punishments. Halfscreen is iffy but we have better tools. Anything beyond that is more for oki which we still have better options for.

And I mean its common knowledge. You have no reason to charge that distance or be at level 3 venom unless you are up close.
 

RapZiLLa54

Monster Island Tournaments
Because its common knowledge to not charge an enemy at full screen because of the easy jump over into full combo punishments. Halfscreen is iffy but we have better tools. Anything beyond that is more for oki which we still have better options for.

And I mean its common knowledge. You have no reason to charge that distance or be at level 3 venom unless you are up close.
Again, what does distance ( even though this was done at a little further out than sweep distance because I knew low shots was coming) have to do with immunity? I wasn't getting beat by jump over punishes, I got flat out stopped in my run by MB low shots.
 

Doombawkz

Trust me, I'm a doctor
Again, what does distance ( even though this was done at a little further out than sweep distance because I knew low shots was coming) have to do with immunity? I wasn't getting beat by jump over punishes, I got flat out stopped in my run by MB low shots.
You were at level 3 venom, yes? If so, that would be impossible unless you chose a move that isn't given venom properties.
At level 3 venom, your 11 frame overhead is projectile immune as well, by the by.
 

RapZiLLa54

Monster Island Tournaments
You were at level 3 venom, yes? If so, that would be impossible unless you chose a move that isn't given venom properties.
At level 3 venom, your 11 frame overhead is projectile immune as well, by the by.
Holy shit. Yes lvl 3 charge got beat out by MB low shots so unless this was a random bug (which i dont think it is due to it happening a few times) I don't know what to tell you.
 

Doombawkz

Trust me, I'm a doctor
Holy shit. Yes lvl 3 charge got beat out by MB low shots so unless this was a random bug (which i dont think it is due to it happening a few times) I don't know what to tell you.
I can tell you don't pick charge at that range, but I've fought plenty of Deathstrokes who tried to MB shot me and I've eaten through it every single time.
 

PND_Ketchup

"More deadly than the dawn"
The sheer amount of downplay in this post is disgusting. Also the inaccuracy. Level 3 venom is projectile immune, or didn't you know?

I'm guessing you didn't.
Level 3 debuff. Bane will get walked all over if that's all he wants to do to get in.
 

Doombawkz

Trust me, I'm a doctor
Level 3 debuff. Bane will get walked all over if that's all he wants to do to get in.
He doesn't have to use it when he can block and dash half the screen as fast as Doomsday.
I'm just stating it is projectile immune, which it is. "anything over 3 hits will break venom 3" was the inaccuracy.

Also we can combo straight through our debuff, so I mean trading off some 50-60% damage to take maybe 40% from deathstroke? Even if we did just yolovenom3 we still get the better trade-off.
 

Shawi

Noob
Okay to get us back on topic, here is what I think from what I have played. I have left out the characters that I have no clue about.

Bane 7-3 - The charge punish is big in this MU and I think that banes strings (for me) are just a bit too slow and when in debuff it is just a bit too easy - This could actually be a 6-4 or 5-5 based on the new patch but I have not had a chance to play bane since.
Hawk girl 3-7 -This is a hilarious matchup because its like tom and jerry. We are tom and its just funny to try and catch tom with all the obstacles in the way.
Flash 6-4 - The AT wins this for me. With it beating out the RMS flash needs to headbut forward and in this matchup shazam can actually throw projectiles :O !
Green lantern 3-7 - GLs mixups plus his great spacing and zoning tools make this 3-7 for me.
Ares 4-6 - Ares' projectiles (mb and normal) with his trait makes this difficult for shazam. Ares has NO reason to even try to go in.
Deathstroke 2-8 - Worst matchup by FAR. No answer to: low gunshot + mb, high gunshot + mb, ji3 and iags. A combination of these just obliterate shazam. You can't AT in, using teleport is stupid because you're asking to get hit out of it, and the sword spin on wakeup is safe esp with mb thus rendering a knockdown and the vortex useless.
Batman 3-7 - bats bats bats bats bats and more bats. I HATE those bats! Batman is just too good. His pressure game is solid vs shazam and as we doesn't really have a solid AA it makes it too difficult. At full screen the bats, in combination with batarangs that can be MB and push back, make it tough. The random grapple with risk of mb just adds to the pain.
Superman 3-7 - Just watch Rip vs EGP Wonder_Chef. Superman can run like a little b**ch with even the slightest health lead and zone away. The mb eyes that track don't help and they blow up teleport and AT completely.
NightWing (staff stance) 4-6 - one word (letter and number), d1
Green Arrow 5-5 - Great match with two characters that are quite similar in that they both need to guess. I think this completely depends on reads.
Raven 4-6 - Ive only played this matchup a few times with a really solid raven player and it is not easy. You can be punished for dashing forward for gods sake and if raven has two bars, she can even combo off of it. Shazam only has a dash to get in, and with they being punishable, it pushes it in ravens favour. When shazam is in, I feel like I can really sustain a solid offence (until the round ends that is and the bloody floor becomes a bouncy castle and the opponent goes flying to the other side of the screen).
Aquaman 3-7 - Aquaman plays off waking backwards. This is how SZ was in MK9 and hence why (i think) brady plays him today. My knowledge may be limited, but I have no idea how to get in without using a risky AT. After the patch, this MU, MAY, be a 4-6 but i've left it as 3-7 because it doesnt make too much of a difference for shazam.
Black Adam 3-7 - He has such strong punishes with such high damage and solid zoning that despite shazam being able to put up a solid fight, any wrong read and you're dead. This is in addition to black adams setups etc - when you get hit, you get hit hard.
Sinestro 4-6 - Not only is his zoning so solid, but the stupid stupid stupid stupid claw on wakeup. Can someone explain why that hits on both sides? Blimin' heck!
Doomsday 5-5 - Absolutely trying to keep my personal opinions aside here, this is probably, at the highest possible level, a 5-5. Does anyone know if we have an answer to the trait? The wake-ups are punishable despite me failing BADLY, so the vortex works nice. In my opinion this is a 0-10 for me (not shazam) haha!

Let me know what you guys think. Am I down playing? Or am I being realistic? I love the challenge though in overcoming these match-ups.