Match-up Discussion Smarr's Post UFGT Black Adam MU Chart

[DownfouralitY]

That blows then. Aquaman imo is a 5-5

 

[Qwark28]

There is no way in hell anyone in this game can 7-3 black adam especially at this point. GL could be a losing MU but i honestly think its easily an even MU when played correctly.

Joker is interesting and you really have to play an excellent one to understand why but it easily could be in adams favor. Everyone just has this stigma for joker being shit and that adam should just beat him because of that.

KF ive already discussed and said it could be 6-4.

Now for aquaman i can already tell you obviously havent played this cause Black magic most definitely does not punish ground trident. In fact trident reversal is what punishes black magic making your only option from full screen lightning strikes. Jumping tridents can lead to divekicks but they shouldnt be throwing them out overy other second. Aquaman has great mixups up close and his trait makes it hard for adam to get any damage since most of his combos take multiple ground hits to launch him up. This MU will be one of the more disputed but i honestly think its even. Without aquamans trait it easily would be in BA's favor.

Grundy i stated could be 7-3 but he still has tons of tricks that could be found to easily make it close.

Bane like i said could be worse than 6-4 but i havent played a really good one after his changes. He definitely is no slouch though and getting out of his stuff isnt always easy by no means.

Cyborg when having great instant airs is a bitch to deal with. Theres nothing you can do and adams straight dash is so long that avoiding the fire balls and getting in without taking a lot of damage is not easy. I see no reason why this shouldnt be 4-6. Adam cant zone or counter zone well at all which are the biggest parts of his game.

Batman is another MU people are on both sides for. Up close with the right traps BA can be stuck blocking and guessing for long periods of time and forced to push block. After this its not like batman is kept out for long. Adams zoning is hard to use in this MU because of the 100 ways batman can alter his jump and BA has an insanely hard time competing in the air with batmans j2. I honestly think its even. People will be on both sides of this one though.

I think dave covered hawkgirl pretty well and he plays Master D all the time. All this "oh she can run and youll never catch her" stuff is complete nonsense cause she literally does almost nothing to me when shes flying and when she lands all she has is mace charge and some weirdo non mixup pressure which means nothing since normals do ass chip. You just get the lead and then pick your shots and youre fine.

Not like I've been playing Joker since half a month before the game was released. He''s decent but he can't stand up to Adam, not with a high gunshot and a J3 the range of which doesn't matter vs your backdash.

Cyborg could be 4-6 but ATM Adam is so nearly broken that he has some of the best zoning, anti zoning and rushdown in the whole game. I could see it getting messy when cyborgs under pressure but we'll see in a few months.

I know black magic doesn't work. I mentioned in my post that your main zoning is lightning to get the lead and turtle QQman. Point is, black magic is intended to punish the trident and in the future that might be patched.

Trait is still something QQman must respect, its 6% chip minimum every time you cancel a normal to it, not to mention throws and guaranteed pressure. One D1 on hit can lead to 47%.

I've played vs several high lvl grundies and will play @pnd mustard soon to get some variety from the banes I usually play offline. There is no way they both lose because of "slight disadvantage".

 

[Qwark28]

Have you tried, in training mode or in match play to punish the trident w/black magic? I've hit the perfect, correct reversal timing, where the game says "reversal" and Aquaman can still block. I've tested this many times in training mode, and tried many times in gameplay against GGA Dizzy 's Aquaman. Going by the frame data isn't a a sure thing in this game, there's many inconsistencies. I can make a video later tonight showing this...

I have. I'm assuming it's a glitch that will be fixed hopefully.

 

[Smarrgasm]

Not like I've been playing Joker since half a month before the game was released. He''s decent but he can't stand up to Adam, not with a high gunshot and a J3 the range of which doesn't matter vs your backdash.

Cyborg could be 4-6 but ATM Adam is so nearly broken that he has some of the best zoning, anti zoning and rushdown in the whole game. I could see it getting messy when cyborgs under pressure but we'll see in a few months.

I know black magic doesn't work. I mentioned in my post that your main zoning is lightning to get the lead and turtle QQman. Point is, black magic is intended to punish the trident and in the future that might be patched.

Trait is still something QQman must respect, its 6% chip minimum every time you cancel a normal to it, not to mention throws and guaranteed pressure. One D1 on hit can lead to 47%.

I've played vs several high lvl grundies and will play @pnd mustard soon to get some variety from the banes I usually play offline. There is no way they both lose because of "slight disadvantage".

For aquaman trait off of strings into throw is all you can get for damage (which a lot of people tech now) at times up close and you dont really wanna be up close against him. How are you getting 47% off d1? He has trait to stop any orb combo anyway and d1 orbs into string doesnt combo easily on the non big hitbox characters anyway. The best thing youre going to get is 23% off d1 orbs d1 hands. Meanwhile aquaman gets 35% or more off his d1 on hit no matter what. You literally said in your post that black magic punishes trident and you were wrong so dont act like you didnt think it worked and in the future if they change it to work then i might change my number.

I wont really argue the other obscure ones with you cause i havent played them enough most likely. Its just hard to put some harsh numbers on characters like grundy and bane where they have tricks and things undiscovered that could get things rolling for them at any time.

 

[CrimsonShadow]

For whoever was saying GL is advantage over Black Adam -- as a GL player I feel that's completely wrong. BA easily takes away everything GL does best. It feels even at the least. I'm running around now, but I'll expand on this later.

 

[Dizzy]

Yeah black magic for sure doesn't punish ground trident. You can do lightning though and he can't get out of it (except backdash which still loses to MB lightning).

When I found this out after playing HAN a few weeks ago I thought it would be a big deal, but it isn't really. Ground trident sucks in the neutral game, its a major risk to throw it out. If the black adam happens to jump forward when you do it, even full screen, you lose 40% for 1 bar.

 

[Pig Of The Hut]

BA needs to go in the air and call it a day. Yes we can parry his one string or whatever, but you can just trait, divekick your way in and pressure. If you ever use black magic outside of a combo that's on you, because you should never use it to check a frost. KF can airdash, but you need to realize her options in the air are ass cheeks, and can't do shit. This MU is 6-4 for BA, 7-3 or 8-2 on Metropolis rooftop

The frost downplaying in the thread is truly insulting

I've played a lot of frost and no one is playing her as broke 16 bit is so it doesn't surprise me frost players are throwing around 3-7 MU numbers

Your character has no issues getting in when played right, not being a dick but just letting you know zero frost I've played compare

 

[Smarrgasm]

I think Black Adam for sure is 4-6 vs GL. There's been breakthroughs on combo optimization for GL as of late, and he's capable of reliably netting 40+% on combos, and still retains the great oki, so BA isn't so far ahead in efficient damage output anymore.

I definitely wanna play this more with you cause you gave me a super hard time last time we played. I honestly think it could be GL favor but i think part of it was just me not knowing how to deal with him. Lets play more soon and we can try to figure out what it should be.

 

[Pig Of The Hut]

Its funny how a majority of the kf players think it's in BA favor, and how a majority of the BA players think it's even. Which side needs to level up?!??

Definitely every frost player

Isaw bit play every black Adam and tourney attendee and definitely frost players other than him or behind but naturally cause he's played longer

Ill sum it up:

to frost players: if I can beat u 3-4 game out of 10 w sinestro your frost needs to level up

 

[Pig Of The Hut]

It is 6-4 Black Adam. Probably Frost's only bad MU with the possibility of Hawkgirl but it is way too early to tell on that one. Anyone with the freedom to do whatever they want in the air is going to give KF massive problems because she has zero air control. BA can dive kick from side to side, make Frost chase him which is always going to give him an advantage. While he is doing this he is building meter for EX Lightning which catches Frost on the way down from jumps, blows up slide, and checks her when she is on the ground.

Daggers can be MB dive kick combo'd for a minimum of 40% with 1 bar and trait and the situation resets itself. On wake-up if you slide BA jump back 2 will blow it up for a full combo of around 45% with a bar every time. On any blocked slide there is no penalty for jumping back since BA can cancel into dive kick and go back to full screen or punish if you try to go for some sort of anti-air opportunity. On knock-down Frost's pressure on BA is not a great option due to the invincibility on lightning cage which the BA player can MB for a full combo punish. Absolutely her hardest MU.

Yea I agree from what I saw and witnessed and experienced black Adam and batman seem to be one of the only ones to deal w frost

 

[DownfouralitY]

Pig Of The Hut what is adam sinestro?

 

[Asodimazze]

Guys there is just no way Black Adam - Grundy is 6-4; I play Grundy and it is 8-2 imho.
There is just no way to win this Matchup against a competent Black Adam...he wins this MU in every aspect.
He can stay away from Grundy for the whole match and zone him with the lightining bolt and divekick.
If luckily Grundy manages to approach Adam, The MU doesn't get better because half of BA moves are throw immune and his trait totally negates WC/WCC or any other armor move.

This MU is impossible

 

[Pig Of The Hut]

Pig Of The Hut what is adam sinestro?

I love the MU personally and feel very comfortable in it but its honestly 4-6 Adam but when I play it I feel 5-5 at all times

But we will say 4-6 Adam favor cause it does make sense

 

[Pig Of The Hut]

Smarrgasm

I do feel joker loses 4-6 at least

Compare the difficulty and amount of tools to those other 4-6 and 5-5 listed

 

[Qwark28]

For aquaman trait off of strings into throw is all you can get for damage (which a lot of people tech now) at times up close and you dont really wanna be up close against him. How are you getting 47% off d1? He has trait to stop any orb combo anyway and d1 orbs into string doesnt combo easily on the non big hitbox characters anyway. The best thing youre going to get is 23% off d1 orbs d1 hands. Meanwhile aquaman gets 35% or more off his d1 on hit no matter what. You literally said in your post that black magic punishes trident and you were wrong so dont act like you didnt think it worked and in the future if they change it to work then i might change my number.

I wont really argue the other obscure ones with you cause i havent played them enough most likely. Its just hard to put some harsh numbers on characters like grundy and bane where they have tricks and things undiscovered that could get things rolling for them at any time.

I'm not acting like I thought anything. I'm stating that it should be punishable according to frame data and should be fixed.
D1 trait is a combo starter that does a minimum of 12% on hit. Worst case scenaro you add a couple % to that from chip damage.

Black Adam can lame out aquaman, you can do 6% per projectile of yours while he can't. You can build meter to do that chip on block when he can't enhance anything of his for more. You only have to chase him if the life lead of his is substantial.

I agree on the harsh numbers man but why make a MU tier list but save some numbers for the future incase things change? Of course things will change, this is why there's not just one universal tier and matchup list per character

I'm trying to find new dirt with the throw. ATM all I got is delaying the timing of it.

 

[Qwark28]

Yeah black magic for sure doesn't punish ground trident. You can do lightning though and he can't get out of it (except backdash which still loses to MB lightning).

When I found this out after playing HAN a few weeks ago I thought it would be a big deal, but it isn't really. Ground trident sucks in the neutral game, its a major risk to throw it out. If the black adam happens to jump forward when you do it, even full screen, you lose 40% for 1 bar.

48% if you're reo

 

[Smarrgasm]

I'm not acting like I thought anything. I'm stating that it should be punishable according to frame data and should be fixed.
D1 trait is a combo starter that does a minimum of 12% on hit. Worst case scenaro you add a couple % to that from chip damage.

Black Adam can lame out aquaman, you can do 6% per projectile of yours while he can't. You can build meter to do that chip on block when he can't enhance anything of his for more. You only have to chase him if the life lead of his is substantial.

I agree on the harsh numbers man but why make a MU tier list but save some numbers for the future incase things change? Of course things will change, this is why there's not just one universal tier and matchup list per character

I'm trying to find new dirt with the throw. ATM all I got is delaying the timing of it.

But you said you get 47% for d1 as a talking point and thats just not true especially vs aquaman. We cant rely on frame data so dont take that something should get punished when it doesnt in to your points when we have NO clue if that could get fixed or if its meant to punish in the first place. 6% per projectile for a bar and most of the time he can jump it and check you right back if you dont reversal.

For the other ones i said they could likely be 7-3 but i dont wanna put that number on them yet. I will revise some of the stuff now and see what people think.

Updated 5-29 Bane and grundy made 7-3, Joker 6-4

 

[Qwark28]

But you said you get 47% for d1 as a talking point and thats just not true especially vs aquaman. We cant rely on frame data so dont take that something should get punished when it doesnt in to your points when we have NO clue if that could get fixed or if its meant to punish in the first place. 6% per projectile for a bar and most of the time he can jump it and check you right back if you dont reversal.

For the other ones i said they could likely be 7-3 but i dont wanna put that number on them yet. I will revise some of the stuff now and see what people think.

Why are we going in circles? Who cares if he can check you? You can get the lead back because it does 6% everytime you have meter ( almost always with black adam ) and he does a ground trident, and depending on the lifelead he can't throw them out due to ex divekick and the threat of getting the lead back/furthering it which is guaranteed.

point being: you outturtle him, have an easier time getting the lead back, can directly hurt his zoning with divekick which he can't get out of with trait and you still get guaranteed minor damage with pressure and decent chip even if he uses his trait and it works.

adam has a slight advantage.

 

[RiBBz22]

The frost downplaying in the thread is truly insulting

I've played a lot of frost and no one is playing her as broke 16 bit is so it doesn't surprise me frost players are throwing around 3-7 MU numbers

Your character has no issues getting in when played right, not being a dick but just letting you know zero frost I've played compare

Damn dude...RiBBz22 Frost on blast?

 

[Pig Of The Hut]

Damn dude...RiBBz22 Frost on blast?

No actually not

Your frost is second best I've played and got hella better every game we played

Seriously

Also u embrace her brokenness and love it so that's awesome

 

[Metzos]

Smarrgasm, i have played against Qwark a lot with my DD and i believe its in BA's favor. But i can agree with a 5 - 5 as well, cause its still too soon to discuss about MU's. Solid chart in general.

 

[RiBBz22]

No actually not

Your frost is second best I've played and got hella better every game we played

Seriously

Also u embrace her brokenness and love it so that's awesome

I know I was just trolling you. Dat Killer Fraud!

Next brokenness to be exposed is BATGIRL

 

[xKhaoTik]

Definitely every frost player

Isaw bit play every black Adam and tourney attendee and definitely frost players other than him or behind but naturally cause he's played longer

Ill sum it up:

to frost players: if I can beat u 3-4 game out of 10 w sinestro your frost needs to level up

Im not every frost player and we have yet to play

 

[Metzos]

Guys there is just no way Black Adam - Grundy is 6-4; I play Grundy and it is 8-2 imho.
There is just no way to win this Matchup against a competent Black Adam...he wins this MU in every aspect.
He can stay away from Grundy for the whole match and zone him with the lightining bolt and divekick.
If luckily Grundy manages to approach Adam, The MU doesn't get better because half of BA moves are throw immune and his trait totally negates WC/WCC or any other armor move.

This MU is impossible

You gotta take into account Grundy's resets and WC cancel pressure. Also once Grundy corners BA it becomes really difficult for BA to escape if the Grundy player plays it smart.

 

[Pig Of The Hut]

I know I was just trolling you. Dat Killer Fraud!

Next brokenness to be exposed is BATGIRL

Too true

Im not every frost player and we have yet to play

Very true

Hopefully u crush me beyond anything like bit did cause it'll only help me w the match up w my new characters. Sinestro is a joke vs her