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Match-up Discussion Shazam Match-Up Discussion

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Heroic_Legacy

Apprentice
You're gonna get in and he's gonna b1 Trait MB Gatling gun you to the end of the screen again. And then by the time you make it back in, his trait is up and he built a bar by shooting missiles and bullets.
 
ZigZag

ZigZag

That Welsh Guy
Heroic_Legacy said:
You're gonna get in and he's gonna b1 Trait MB Gatling gun you to the end of the screen again. And then by the time you make it back in, his trait is up and he built a bar by shooting missiles and bullets.
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I don't know about you guys but when I'm in I AM IN.
Any good Shazam will punish over and over and force the GL bitch to try and run and get desperate, but that only works to my favor, any back dash is punished by torpedo piece of pie, and I play smart against GL because i don't want to get back to full screen, You have to play smart against him but you can stay in, and teleport his bullets if he hits you out and he'll just shoot either a gatling gun/GG(ex) or an Ex bullet so be prepared to block then teleport again into a d3, which most of the time people don't block for after teleport, I win like 80% of Shazam vs GL matches now, and i'm not including the scrubs who haven't picked up the game properly yet, I shall do a video on it sometime, I don't think the MU is that bad if we're talking high level.
 
ZigZag

ZigZag

That Welsh Guy
here's your tools against GL when you're in to stay in.

Shazam can run over opponents from a bf2 (ex) straight into command grab setup for full combo.
112 teleport dash over them and command grab into combo.

Full combo from ji2, f22, dbf1 (ex), b3, ji2, 112, torpedo, dash over into command grab reset.(this timing is trickier but can't be punished if preformed right, although to ease timing I'd suggest ex torpedo as it lands them closer to you)

D3 into command grab can't be back dashed but can be punished.
(Also players will tend to feel confident low blocking shazam if you use the D3 command grab or D3 cross over method alot because he has no overheads into full combo's, but you can achilles clutch ducking into full combo's.)
Can't back dash from reset from torpedo ended combos into command grab.

To pass his zoning teleport bullets then block his next whether it be the gatling gun or if tries to ram you, if he shoots bullets you can jump them or teleport them, it's not too hard to get in, just don't let him hit you with the ram because you're out then, so punish punish punish, once in range i suggest starting with the d3 then cross over 2 f22 etc and end that string with a torpedo dash over them and command grab reset or dash up to them and normal grab them.

Shazam is brilliant when played well, these are things we just found a second ago, and we were testing them on GL too, i'll try and bring video guides out for shazam to be played at high level.

GL still has the advantage I will admit, but if you can start your resets he's screwed before he can punish you.
There is so little you can punish GL with as his frame advantage almost always out ways any of shazams start up frames.

You can win this easy as long as you are the one who starts pressure, if you let GL begin to crap all over you it's difficult yes.
But there's nothing he can do against resets and these dash overs into command grabs will mess up their inputs for wakeups and you will be able to start combo's all over.
 
ando1184

ando1184

Warrior
Has anyone had any good experience vs Superman. He seems to have all the right tools to snuff out and space shazam. His f2,3 pressure and air dashing just keeps my head spin. Idk if it's that I'm playing one of the best Supes online or the matchup is just that one-sided?
 
TendouTensei

TendouTensei

Noob
Yeah Superman can be hard is this one uses zoning.
I know that you can punish the air laser by bf2. Teleport dash doesn't enables him to avoid severals projectiles in this game...that's a shame !
We need to be patient ;)
 
S

stealthychainsawninja

Noob
Just something I noticed regarding female characters: it's much harder to grab them from behind with dbf2 on wake-up than male characters. For example, a setup I have been using (when I have a lot of meter to spare or need the damage) is db2 MB, trait, meaty dbf2, which I can do 99% of the time (in offline training mode, anyway) on male characters (I haven't tested all of them, but I've tested even smaller ones like Flash and Nightwing), but I can only land it about 2% of the time on female characters (tested against all of them). Even omitting the trait and simply timing the dbf2 after db2 MB, or timing the dbf2 after a dbf2 MB or a crossover j3, I have the same success rates.

I will continue to test this on all the other characters later and try to figure out what the issue is (I highly doubt it's my execution here considering how consistent this is), but I suspect this has something to do with the base female character model having different properties on wake-up, at least when turning around. Perhaps they are considered standing for a shorter amount of time?
 
ZigZag

ZigZag

That Welsh Guy
stealthychainsawninja said:
Just something I noticed regarding female characters: it's much harder to grab them from behind with dbf2 on wake-up than male characters. For example, a setup I have been using (when I have a lot of meter to spare or need the damage) is db2 MB, trait, meaty dbf2, which I can do 99% of the time (in offline training mode, anyway) on male characters (I haven't tested all of them, but I've tested even smaller ones like Flash and Nightwing), but I can only land it about 2% of the time on female characters (tested against all of them). Even omitting the trait and simply timing the dbf2 after db2 MB, or timing the dbf2 after a dbf2 MB or a crossover j3, I have the same success rates.

I will continue to test this on all the other characters later and try to figure out what the issue is (I highly doubt it's my execution here considering how consistent this is), but I suspect this has something to do with the base female character model having different properties on wake-up, at least when turning around. Perhaps they are considered standing for a shorter amount of time?
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Thanks for letting us know ^_^
Could be an annoyance to us if it's true, but I would suggest trying other strings to properly test it.
 
T

TerraSnake112

Noob
I don't know how valid this is since he's pretty new and I've never really analyzed a match up before but I feel that Shazam vs Lobo is highly in Shazam's favor. Shazam can just teleport backwards the whole fight. Gaining immense amounts of meter and punishing dash ins or jump ins with MB torpedo or pester Lobo with thunderbolts since Lobo doesn't have any zoning tools. At the beginning of matches I like to duck just in case they throw out his low chain grapple. Most cases they jump and I just block the mix up, get a knockdown and just TP out of there and build some easy meter.
 
S

stealthychainsawninja

Noob
I ended up having more time than I expected, so I tested this on everyone and retested all the female characters and some of the male characters. I seem to have less issues with Wonder Woman's wake-up and more issues with Nightwing's wake-up than I initially thought, but all the other female characters still feel much harder to grab than everyone else. I'm a lot more confident now that it's related to character size after noticing the difference between Nightwing and larger characters like Grundy. I'd feel a lot better if it wasn't just me so I could stop questioning my execution, but it's kind of a pain to test.

ZigZagGamer95 said:
Thanks for letting us know ^_^
Could be an annoyance to us if it's true, but I would suggest trying other strings to properly test it.
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What exactly do you mean by other strings? Like trying to hit the opponent on wake-up with a meaty high-hitting attack like 1 or f1 on wake-up? I tried this just now and had results similar to the grabs, but didn't test it for long. They both were more difficult to connect on females/Nightwing, though (no issues with Flash and any other males I tested). If you mean different knockdowns, I've been trying, but any knockdown that doesn't end with the opponent on their back with their head toward you seems universally easy to follow with a meaty dbf1 or high, so it's hard to tell if there is a difference.
 
Green Nutts

Green Nutts

Gotcha!
Sneak said:
I think it may still be a bit too early for that. A lot of the matchups haven't really been too fleshed out yet.
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I'll do a couple when i get home. But I haven't had enough matchups with Ares, Lobo, and whatnot.

Edit: Got caught up in some stuff. Ill do it later at night :)
 
Shawi

Shawi

Apprentice
This is all well and good in terms of staying in, but one wrong guess on high/low grab or whether or not there is a wakeup comming and against many characters like superman you are back to full screen.

Can anyone seem to teleport through superman ex air laser? I can go through the normal, but the ex always gets me
 
ZigZag

ZigZag

That Welsh Guy
Shawi said:
This is all well and good in terms of staying in, but one wrong guess on high/low grab or whether or not there is a wakeup comming and against many characters like superman you are back to full screen.

Can anyone seem to teleport through superman ex air laser? I can go through the normal, but the ex always gets me
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If you're good enough you can get back in, but Shazam simply cannot handle zoners that well without a teleport equal to that of which Smoke had in MK9, so the simple fact is you'll need an alt who can deal with zoners.

Nope its impossible to tele it.
 
HushoftheWind

HushoftheWind

When's GGA!?
any Shazam player got a good match with a deathstroke, i wanna see how its done. I was close today, i would anticipate his wake sword spin, block it and punish with his standing command throw. the first bar of health is no problem, its him getting to the other side of the screen b/c of the placement after the first bar of life is depleted, THATS THE PROBLEM.
 
T

Throwback

Noob
HushoftheWind said:
any Shazam player got a good match with a deathstroke, i wanna see how its done. I was close today, i would anticipate his wake sword spin, block it and punish with his standing command throw. the first bar of health is no problem, its him getting to the other side of the screen b/c of the placement after the first bar of life is depleted, THATS THE PROBLEM.
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My main issue is staying on him once you get the first knockdown. Sword spin is completely safe on block and sword flip destroys jump-ins.

So I went to training mode and found options against DS wakeup after d3:

1. Walk back then sword spin will whiff and you can punish with b2/HM. Backdash is too slow for Shazam to punish sword spin.
2. Walk back a very small distance and start b3, causing sword spin to whiff (which is pretty funny) and starting a combo.
3. Start walking backwards and switch into the meaty (un-duckable) HM, making it a true 50/50 mixup.
 
ZigZag

ZigZag

That Welsh Guy
HushoftheWind said:
any Shazam player got a good match with a deathstroke, i wanna see how its done. I was close today, i would anticipate his wake sword spin, block it and punish with his standing command throw. the first bar of health is no problem, its him getting to the other side of the screen b/c of the placement after the first bar of life is depleted, THATS THE PROBLEM.
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I know a real good DS player, I'll play some matches against him and record it and post it for you ^_^
 
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