Improving Scorpion

[Slips]

But are we talking like half screen whiff and you will be safe?

snip

Scorpion needs to be safe on a whiffed spear whiff at 3/4 of the screen. Hell, even full screen would be nice.

And yes, Scorpion "needs" to throw out spear on occasion. Players know jumping means they get speared, so they just start dashing in. When this happens they'll eat 1 or maybe 2 hellfire before they are in jump range of Scorpion. We're talking max dmg of 14% before a character has closed the gap on Scorpion. That sux. This wouldn't be so bad if Scorpion didn't suck at the up-close game, but he does. So in order for people to respect Scorpion and stop dashing he has to throw out the spear. But if they duck or jump thinking the spear is a hellfire...your dead.

Your still not getting it. Its not a matter of 'mixing it up.' If all of the mix-ups are punishable on reaction that just means he's very risky...which he just is and is why he'll never have a good showing in a tourney. Nobody can guess right in every situation possible, thats what safe options are for. They are to help condition your opponent and see how they are reacting to your style and moves with little to no consequence. And guess what? Scorpion has no safe options at all. No matter what move he tries to test the waters with, its a gamble. Whether its hellfire, spear, TP, leg takedown...he's risking getting launched, and its silly.

Almost every character has a safe special move they can buffer a poke into to make it safe...except Scorpion. Thats all we're asking for.

Thats great you want to see the game grow properly, but you are shooting down some very valid points that me and other people are making with condescending remarks such as 'mix it up better', 'find something else' and 'your not using his moves right' when you don't know how to use them at all and come up with no suggestions. I'm providing REASONS why he needs these changes while you're just being an ass.

Stop acting like we don't know what we're talking about when you don't know what your talking about either. We're the Scorpion players here not you. You find a way to use his moves safely, let us know. Otherwise yes, you're trolling, and its getting on a lot of nerves. If we saw at least one Scorpion player placing in tournies consistently, I could see your points being valid in the players are playing the character wrong. But there hasn't been any, so if the players haven't been able to find anything to make him worthwhile, the problem is the character. And the purpose of this thread is to make suggestions to make him viable. We are at NRS's mercy as it is, we don't need someone coming in here not knowing what he's talking about to shoot down our chances even further.

PEACE

Oh and I said Scorpion has average zoning and below average up-close game...meaning he's average AT BEST. Get it straight.

 

[zaf]

this is a retarded sentence

And guess what? Scorpion has no safe options at all. No matter what move he tries to test the waters with, its a gamble. Whether its hellfire, spear, TP, leg takedown...he's risking getting launched, and its silly.


why the hell are you trying to attack someone on block with special moves lol?
thats your problem. Dont test waters with moves like this, you are asking to get punished. try using jab. i understand his moves are punishable, but you arent helping when you test the waters with them, pokes and jabs alone do this for you
keep specials for the combos with scorpion.

i had no problem using him at all today. i just used his jab string well
this can be used so often, its safe and depending on how you are mixing up with it and using it its leads to nice full combos
i was alone using this move in matches and getting good results
its safe on block, you can try and grab after the 2nd hit. theres so many mix ups with this string, you can lead into his resets and then you keep your opponent guessing

there is a good scorpion player inmontreal, hopefully videos are recorded tomorrow
the more i read, the more i see scorpion being misused, hopefully over the course of the weekend you will all change your mind
id take the time to go to the canada threads and find the MAT tournament thread to get the stream link

 

[Slips]

Let me be more specific.

You have to be able to attack a relative safeness at jump/sweep distance to feel out what your opponent is doing. Whether he's attacking or turtling. Most characters can do this with relative ease with very strong special moves/strings/pokes.

Kung Lao: f+3
Smoke: b+2
Sub Zero: Ice Clone
Ermac: Force Push
Kitana: f+2,1
Cyrax: Rag Doll
Sektor: Flame Thrower
Sonya: cartwheel kick
Mileena: f+3, leap grab

Now I'm not saying these moves can't be dealt with, but these are the 'test the waters' moves I'm talking about. Scorpion has nothing like these moves listed above that is safe. The best thing he's got which I've already mentioned is f+3 but its waaay too slow compared to these.

Thats great you realized his jab string is good. We all already knew that. But its useless when Scorp is getting pressure on him at jump or sweep distance. Every character in the game has good shit when at point blank range with frame advantage. Your pointing out day 1 strats for God's sake. I'm talking about getting that advantage in the first place. I was not specific so I understand the confusion.

PEACE

 

[KTH]

http://www.justin.tv/eschamptv

Here's the link. Slips and i are from the same town. I'd be interested to see if anyone has better scorpion than him. Out of all the video I saw, I haven't seen anyone at his level yet. By the way you sound, your strategy for scorpion is at beginner level. Everyone know how to use jab string mix up close. P. We're talking about spacing/risk/reward/mix up/conditioning. I'll keep an open mind and watch though.

 

[zaf]

thescorpionplayer is jedah
im more then positive hes better then slips

 

[Slips]

And I'm more than positive I'm better than you. Please move onto the next character thread to troll. Thanks.

 

[zaf]

i just think scorpion is fine, everything i say is my own opinion of the characrer and how to use it, its not wrong of me to think so,neither the same for you, i apologize if i at all sound demening, this is not my intention and i can see how it can be thought as that.the game just needs to be played, you are going to see more higher tiers at the moment just because they are easier to use, i just want to put out a scenario and have you answer it, because if it is not viable i would want toknow why. what is wrong with zoning someone and just dashing or walking backwards, it leaves them prone to hellfire at any time especially if your movement is akward, smart players wont jump alot because of the fear of spear imo. SO they will likely stay to just trying to advance towards you grounded,right? So on the ground you can hellfire, even if they shoot a projectile too, you will just trade and i dont mind trading projectiles at all. dont over use hellfire so they jump afterwards. teleport is an option if you read a projectile, which hits them and puts them instagger so you can get a jump in. i dont see how staying at the end of the screen is a bad option, and then responding accordingly,

 

[Lord Beef]

And I'm more than positive I'm better than you. Please move onto the next character thread to troll. Thanks.

Ohhhh snap.



www.reverbnation.com/tyrade

 

[Jelan]

This thread should be about suggestions to make Scorp better. Instead many people say he doesn't need anything. The thing is he does need some type of buff. No I'm not a tourney level player, hell there are not even tourneys where I live! But even like that I can see how bad Scorp is. If I play against my friend who is a quite good Sub-Zero I WILL get owned if I use Scorp. If I miss a spear or a hellfire I lose at least 25% health and the only time I can use tp is when he misses an iceball. However, with Ermac or Nightwolf or even with Noob it's 5/5.

And I read a question if that's topic is based on online play experience. The answer is no, I don't play online, maybe after the netkode patch.

 

[Slips]

I've already gone over this. If they stick to the ground and dash forward after 1 or 2 hellfires they are in jump range where (again something I've already been over) Scorpion has very little to work with cause he has nothing safe nor effective at that range. Walking and dashing backwards helps very little considering forward dashes cover more distance than backdashes and forward walking covers more distance than backwards walking. All your doing is backing yourself into the corner while they are closing ground.

The only thing that causes them to hesitate is an occasional spear. Again, something I've already mentioned and is very risky.

Scorpion wins most projectile battles with hellfire. The problem is his hellfire isn't good enough to keep people out for long. Instant jump fireball characters like Kitana, Mileena, Kabal and Liu Kang is where Scorpion loses the projectile battle since they're never on the ground...which points to his worst match-ups.

As for your point about teleport punching their projectiles, its laughable. His TP is waaay too slow. Each of those characters can land and block in time to punish. Speeding up his TP was something I've already mentioned as well, but hey your the expert.

Oh, I didn't even go over the fact that most characters can jump, bait your spear in mid air with a teleport/air fireball to delay their decent causing your spear to whiff where they can then launch you with whatever they want. So even when I DO catch someone jumping...I'm still gambling half my life to do a spear.

You think Scorpion is fine because you don't play with him enough to know anything about him. A point I've already mentioned.

Which leads back to my suggestions that I've already mentioned as well. He needs:

-Better recovery on whiffed spear (to make his zoning slightly safer)
-Leg takedown unpunishable (to give him a safe option at jump/sweep distance)
-TP faster (to handle instant air fireball characters)

This whole post is me repeating myself because you think you know more with a characer you play on the side while he's my main. Sorry for being a little insulted with your constant arrogant ignorance. Please for the love of god stfu already.

PEACE

 

[mozarus]

Scorpion is overall average, but he have a few terrible matchup. One of the worst is against good Sector. Example:
blocked close spear/takedown/teleport/miss spear punish +45% combo
jumped hellfire on every range punish +45% (close) +30%(max)
a mix up b+2 give ~26% f+3 ~30% sektor punish +45% so weak risk/reward ratio
a best is missed Ex Spear ~55% punish.
sector have very good zoning tool, scorpion have average anti zoning tool.
even poke are limited by sector super fast uppercut.

Scorpion must be tweaked in some way.
Safe takedown will be nice, now is usless.
Faster teleport, for many reason
More safe whiffed spear and ex spear (ex. sub-zero can slide + full combo)
Not full combo punish b+2 or 1,1+2.
Sorry for my english.

 

[macmillionx64]

for scorp
nerfs:
dont allow him to do an neutral overhead then b2 (midcombo)
increase his gravity in the corner
give him more startup frames before he does hellfire
buffs:
allow for f3,4-Ex takedown to be a juggle
make his Ex takedown safe
allow the spear to able to connect after the ex tele (but dont allow a juggle after certain situations)
allow 1,1,4 to only be comboed with hellfire (you should know why)

if this sounds unreasonable let me know

 

[Faded]

for scorp
nerfs:
dont allow him to do an neutral overhead then b2 (midcombo)
increase his gravity in the corner
give him more startup frames before he does hellfire
buffs:
allow for f3,4-Ex takedown to be a juggle
make his Ex takedown safe
allow the spear to able to connect after the ex tele (but dont allow a juggle after certain situations)
allow 1,1,4 to only be comboed with hellfire (you should know why)

if this sounds unreasonable let me know

So you want one of his currently best moves nerfed and some of his not so good moves made slightly better, making him a more situational based character?

Take away his neutral overhead,which is SLOW AS FUCK already. Increase his gravity in the corner,because we all know scorpions best corner combos are situational and rely on meter for average combo damage as it is. And a longer startup on hellfire, at best an average long range move that is easily worked around by anyone with a cent worth of intelligence. This sounds GREAT! :/

No offense but im convinced Slips changes would be as close to perfect as you could get for making Scorpion better without being cheesy.

 

[macmillionx64]

So you want one of his currently best moves nerfed and some of his not so good moves made slightly better, making him a more situational based character?

Take away his neutral overhead,which is SLOW AS FUCK already. Increase his gravity in the corner,because we all know scorpions best corner combos are situational and rely on meter for average combo damage as it is. And a longer startup on hellfire, at best an average long range move that is easily worked around by anyone with a cent worth of intelligence. This sounds GREAT! :/

No offense but im convinced Slips changes would be as close to perfect as you could get for making Scorpion better without being cheesy.

- his netrual is slow, so what everybodies is, its just the fact he is really fast and can combo into his xray, he cant even do 2 b,2's but can do that, wtf (remember i said mid combo after the spear, look at all the other ppl who cant do that too)
- The gravity thing, it still doesnt matter, if some one has no meter and he pulls the 63% is that valid? Or would you prefer more damage scaling?
- The hellfire has tracking dont forget, its actually very fast, pretty close to a 50/50 (the mkvsdc one was fine), if they made the ex hellfire like it is then that would be fine because you use meter
its gives him balance while still allowing him to be good, becuz right now he is way to nooby and shitty at the same time

 

[DaiHuu]

for scorp
nerfs:
1,dont allow him to do an neutral overhead then b2 (midcombo)
2,increase his gravity in the corner
3,give him more startup frames before he does hellfire


if this sounds unreasonable let me know

1, you realize Sub Zero can do a neutral overhead after an ice ball, then do a 35-38% right? Also Nightwolf's main combo has 2 hatchets in it. Don't forget about Liu Kangs B+312, B+312 string. Why take away something that adds to his damage, nothing is wrong with it at all. Oh I forgot Cyrax can put you into a bomb trap after a net for tons of damage.

3,Why more start up frames? This is his tool for zoning. He cant rely on spear to turtle with. If you wanna nerf it, just take 1 or 2% off of the damage.

 

[PimpUigi]

Scorpion doesn't need any nerfs.
Slips seems like he understands what I've been hinting at.

Slips buff suggestions sound good...
I think the whiffed spear should recover just as fast as blocked spear TBH, blocked spear is unsafe...so why should whiffed spear be even worse?

All his 50/50 setups are unsafe...
If they crouch block F+BK, spear, then spear whiffs and they get a free jump in combo.

Scorpion is mid tier at best right now. I would consider him low tier.
Calling him average would mean he's as good as the average character in the game, and I really don't feel that's the case.
I feel like most characters in this game are very good, and Scorpion is one of the worst characters in the game by this reasoning.

I don't even understand people saying he has "average" everything.
To me it seems like he has below average most things, and some average things. Nothing good.

Ermac on the other hand, seems like Scorpion done right.
Good everything, many more safe options, yet he seems like a similar character still.
Ermac is even much fast in general.

 

[ELC]

I like Slips changes, but I'd possibly change one thing:

Instead of a faster startup for teleport, perhaps a steeper descent for air-Teleport, so that if a player Tiger-Knee's it, they'll land-cancel the attack allowing them to block, pressure, or mix-up.

 

[macmillionx64]

1, you realize Sub Zero can do a neutral overhead after an ice ball, then do a 35-38% right? Also Nightwolf's main combo has 2 hatchets in it. Don't forget about Liu Kangs B+312, B+312 string. Why take away something that adds to his damage, nothing is wrong with it at all. Oh I forgot Cyrax can put you into a bomb trap after a net for tons of damage.

3,Why more start up frames? This is his tool for zoning. He cant rely on spear to turtle with. If you wanna nerf it, just take 1 or 2% off of the damage.

well that is true i just dont like the whole neutral jump in combos anyway so i guess its valid, i also understand the hellfire thing too

thanx for the legit post

 

[Slips]

thescorpionplayer is jedah
im more then positive hes better then slips

Looks like your boy didn't even use Scorpion in the stream. Even he knows Scorpion doesn't have what it takes to compete at high level. Just wanted to twist the knife in how wrong you've been this whole time. Asshole.

PEACE

If there's ANYTHING NRS can give Scorpion its a safe leg takedown. Please hear us!

 

[truendymion]

I think making whiffed spear safer and making takedown safe on block would make him more viable in tourneys. Anything else might make him OP.

 

[truendymion]

Lui Kang is getting some buffs and he was by no means low tier. Can we see some Scorp buffs?

 

[OutworldKeith]

Looks like your boy didn't even use Scorpion in the stream. Even he knows Scorpion doesn't have what it takes to compete at high level. Just wanted to twist the knife in how wrong you've been this whole time. Asshole.

PEACE

If there's ANYTHING NRS can give Scorpion its a safe leg takedown. Please hear us!

Stop being a tier-whore bro'
On most tier lists, Scorpion is just below elite & Kung Lao is elite but it all really depends on how good the player is. I've beat plenty of good Kung Lao's, Raiden's, & Ermac's online & the local scene. I do agree that if the character is higher tier its easier for him to beat a lower tier character but it is by no means impossible

Are you on XBL by any chance? I like testing my Scorpion against good players

 

[chessmaster]

scorpion obviously doesn't need a buff. if he did everybody and their mama on xbox live wouldn't be on his nuts.

 

[Slips]

Stop being a tier-whore bro'
On most tier lists, Scorpion is just below elite & Kung Lao is elite but it all really depends on how good the player is. I've beat plenty of good Kung Lao's, Raiden's, & Ermac's online & the local scene. I do agree that if the character is higher tier its easier for him to beat a lower tier character but it is by no means impossible

Are you on XBL by any chance? I like testing my Scorpion against good players

He's mid tier. I never said he sucks or has no chance of beating top tier, but I severely doubt we'll see him win a major tourney. He's just not solid enough and too risky. He might place high every once in a while, but thats about it. Tiers do matter man, especially in the competitive world. The higher the competition gets the smaller the difference in skill level it becomes between players. And a lot of the time what separates two equally skilled players is the characters they use.

I'm on XBL but I never play online, its too awful.

PEACE

 

[OutworldKeith]

He's mid tier. I never said he sucks or has no chance of beating top tier, but I severely doubt we'll see him win a major tourney. He's just not solid enough and too risky. He might place high every once in a while, but thats about it. Tiers do matter man, especially in the competitive world. The higher the competition gets the smaller the difference in skill level it becomes between players. And a lot of the time what separates two equally skilled players is the characters they use.

I'm on XBL but I never play online, its too awful.

PEACE

Of coarse tiers matter in tourneys BUT if your that much better then a guy you can make your Scorpion look like Kung Lao & someones Kung Lao look like Baraka. Scorpion's a pretty solid character IMO w/ some punishable moves but EVERY character can be exploited to be made punishable. & The XBL connect is pretty good it all depends on your actual connection its not as bad as people make it out to be & I hear the PSN netcode is fixed but you can barely connect to a match