Guys, why it’s so hard to understand that any strategy which relies on bait means that you are already at disadvantage? Instead of attacking and wining by your own skill you’re actually waiting for an opp to make a mistake.
Simple logic to support my previous arguments:
+1 on this, dude. Im bound and determined to wreck shop with scorpion, its just taking a little more work since he is so unsafe. But I agree completely. I used to play very aggressive with him, but as people learned the game, my strategy changed. It's become much more about the mind game n baiting the opp, thinking 3 or 4 moves ahead, like chess. And getting that W is so much more rewarding when you know it was because you were all up in their head. This thread makes me wonder though, just how much of this scorpion sux banter is being based on online play??? Hmmmm.....
Kinda hard to judge a character's potential without a player using them, eh?
I was assuming that both players would be of equal, higher-level skill, meaning fewer mistakes, but more effective punishments for those mistakes.exactly you have the right idea and damage buff for sure. whos this guys trying to talk scorpion like he uses him? haha. only "pro" players can judge him? oh is that right so if i sit up with jwong and embarass him but never enter a tourney then i guess i still have no say huh? coming from a scorpion players since day one, you have no clue what youre talking about so you might as well have not even posted zaf. when you have someone even right where you want them you can still get dominated using scorpion. where you had to buy your fighter at ugftv or whatever if i didnt get raiden or ermac best believe i was going for scorpion but that doesnt mean he matches up well againist every one else. he needs a buff badly for moves and damage increases. its funny because they left sub still dominant from the demo.... at least give scorpion a hell slideKinda hard to judge a character's potential without a player using them, eh?
I'm not saying Scorpion doesn't need a buff; I'm just saying that he doesn't need a complete redesign to where baiting is no longer part of his core strategy.
This is what I'd like to see done for Scorpion:
- Faster B+2 Start-up: This move has the potential to be a great anti-air against opponents close to you and low to the ground (ducking; hits above and in front; considerable range), but is too slow to use effectively outside of punishing floating opponents and a 50/50 mix-up after jin.P.
- Safer Spear on whiff: Ever seen an opponent duck under or jump over Spear? See how long it takes you to recover compared to a blocked spear?
- Faster F+2,1 string: Nothing would really change in terms of what the move could be used for, but it doesn't make any mechanical sense why 3 is faster and longer-range than F+2.
-Demon Fire Feint: Something like Guilty Gear's Slayer and his Mappa Punch, where holding 2 instead of just pressing/tapping 2 would cancel the animation allowing for more effective mind-games. Would be difficult to implement considering negative edge, though.
scorpion doesn't need a faster b2, its fine the way it is. He is just a well rounded character. He is good every aspect in the game but doesnt excel at every aspect. Where as some characters are rape in one aspect and weak in another. Just like ryu in sf. i can see his spear becoming spammed if it becomes a lot safer. Its not really a move you just shoot out whenever you want since it is punishable, its just another bait move,
Hehehe: I'm nowhere near pro, but I can 80% of the time tell what a character's general strategy was intended to be based on the properties of their moves (the other 20% comes from unfamiliar engines ^_^)
. B+2 only needs a few (2-4) less frames of startup, and the recovery on Spear should be balanced between block and whiff (block is only slightly unsafe; whiff is very unsafe; middle ground needed). F+2,1 could use a few less frames as well, but only because as a poke that hits High on ducking opponents, it should be about as safe on whiff as 1,1; 2,1; or 3,3. These moves wouldn't change much except be safe against attacks they should be safe against (i.o.w. a blocked B+2 wouldn't save you from Ermac's Force Slam combo.)
I appreciate the explanation of your post and it makes sense. But just like the person who just came on the competitive scene doesn't have the right to come on the boards and say what Scorpion needs to improve...a person who doesn't even play the character doesn't have the right to come in and tell Scorpion players that he doesn't need anything to be competitive. If you don't know the character and don't know the match ups, please mind your own business and let us decide what Scorpion needs before you go on and say we're just a bunch of cry babies.
I think you confused me with Zaf.
Except he doesn’t have any zoning and as punishable as character can be.
Except Scorpion doesn’t have a 50/50 mix-up after jump in due to fuzzy blocking.
No one gives a squat about hellfire: it’s -1 on hit, thus high levels just eat it and proceed to punish or mix-up Scorp after it.
No offence, but I think you played just a better player than yourself.
The other stuff you said in your posts is fine or just whatever, but this needs to be addressed.
No it’s not:
My apologies: I should have worded that better. What I meant was that a character's potential cannot be determined without comparing a player using that character to another player using another character. That is to say, if you compared a CPU vs CPU match, you'd be missing various psychological elements.
You're not doing a good job of convincing anyone otherwise.
Of course. Like I said or implied before, I'm not looking to make everything safe and spammable; just more useful in general.
Try Scorpion out then: a few matches without your main won't hinder your skill with your main.
True, but I don't believe you know how effective Scorpion's moves are at fulfilling their various purposes.
Of course, but again, I want to make the moves more useful where they're supposed to be, not unpunishable.
We all want a balanced game, and the last thing we want to see is our favorite character becoming the overpowered flavor of month then either being banned or nerfed worse than he/she already was.
The 1-mash isn't bad at all: it's a nice poke, can be canceled into spear on first or second hits, and can be used to create better relative positioning. Takedown is fine: maybe a little unsafe, but it's a Low Knockdown with good range and can be comboed into from Low pokes like F+4, D+4, and D+3.
All-around doesn't simply refer to pressure and zoning. It refers to being balanced in terms of offense and defense, air and ground, and close and far. Liu Kang is the best example of an all-around character since he can zone with Fireballs, pressure/mix-up with loops, escape pressure with Parry or Bicycle Kick, and fight on the air or on the ground thanks to a variety of air-ok options.
