On Balance and Patches

[M2Dave]

Yeah, but you know who does know and has had time? NRS. I don't know why it's assumed changes happen based on this knee jerk reaction to TYM.

Because NRS convinced us two years ago that they would never base their changes on knee jerk reactions.

They would never nerf mid tier characters and forget about the real overpowered characters.

It would never happen. Not with NRS.

 

[ghostwriteous]

I think they're only patching with DLC/soon because it saves them money. Wouldn't be surprised if there weren't any more done after the 4 characters have been released.

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk 2

 

[RWDY Nori]

Yeah, but you know who does know and has had time? NRS. I don't know why it's assumed changes happen based on this knee jerk reaction to TYM.

When Sent was nerfed in MvC3, it for sure was a knee jerk reaction and I think people are equally fearful that is the case here as well. Hopefully your right but I'm not sure

 

[Krafty Matt]

TheKraftyMatt I also miss the days where you had to actually learn ways around things through tireless effort, instead of it being "fixed" on a whim because it was "too good". I long for the days when you had to play the same game at launch as you did 5 years down the road.

However, this is a new era. We don't have to live in a world where the game never changes. We aren't forced to put up with certain aspects of the game that the developers deem too good, or game breaking aspects of the game that are obviously too good. And the balance changes are heavily influenced by the community, just not approved by the community. In order to have evolution and progression, you need to go with the times and allow things to change. We have the luxury in todays world to take advantage of technology, it would be literally a waste not to. The only problem is not everyone agrees certain things need to be changed or patched, and sometimes things get patched too early before they're fully fleshed out and have a legit trail run. Just the nature of the beast I guess, but I do not advocate we sacrifice an opportunity to make a game better just because we may or may not like change.

I agree with you. Patching infinites and glitches is using today's technology to it's fullest so we do not have to play a broken game and wait for the next board to hit the arcade or the next card to hit the store shelves. It is less than a month, though. Honestly, what "balancing" do we really grasp? Sure, we have a TON of DS' we cannot get around online. We have NW's frametrap. Oh shit! Must mean it has to be patched and patched now!! No, slow down a bit. Let's examine the game. Let's play the game. Let's take care of all the glitches and infinites, and smooth out all the bumps. Let's let the meta game grow over the next couple of months. Whoa, some player just discovered a MAJOR hole in DS' game, and it completely changes the game. THAT is the stuff that is not allowed to happen when we over-patch.

 

[RWDY Nori]

TheKraftyMatt I also miss the days where you had to actually learn ways around things through tireless effort, instead of it being "fixed" on a whim because it was "too good". I long for the days when you had to play the same game at launch as you did 5 years down the road.

I'm 29 and remember standing in line for up to 30 minutes waiting to play SF2. You didn't hear the 30 people around the cabinet complaining that capcom needed to fix a single thing. MvC2, arguably the most popular FG of all time, had infinites and a broken roster and was successful for years. SSF2T same thing as well as UMK3. I feel a rant coming on but I'll stop.........but yeah it bothers me too man

 

[Juggs]

I agree with you. Patching infinites and glitches is using today's technology to it's fullest so we do not have to play a broken game and wait for the next board to hit the arcade or the next card to hit the store shelves. It is less than a month, though. Honestly, what "balancing" do we really grasp? Sure, we have a TON of DS' we cannot get around online. We have NW's frametrap. Oh shit! Must mean it has to be patched and patched now!! No, slow down a bit. Let's examine the game. Let's play the game. Let's take care of all the glitches and infinites, and smooth out all the bumps. Let's let the meta game grow over the next couple of months. Whoa, some player just discovered a MAJOR hole in DS' game, and it completely changes the game. THAT is the stuff that is not allowed to happen when we over-patch.

And I agree with you. I too think it's too early for "balance patches", but things like infinites and glitches should be patched this early. Sure some things seem really good, but it's also really early. Those same things can prove to be inferior down the road, getting rid of them completely is only limiting options and potential. It could be too good, but it's entirely too early to tell, imo.

 

[Krafty Matt]

And I agree with you. I too think it's too early for "balance patches", but things like infinites and glitches should be patched this early. Sure some things seem really good, but it's also really early. Those same things can prove to be inferior down the road, getting rid of them completely is only limiting options and potential. It could be too good, but it's entirely too early to tell, imo.

Groovy. We are on the exact same page.

 

[Ermaculate_Slim]

I hate the word "casual" because every time I hear it, it's about these crappy gamers who are gonna trade the game in for the next COD anyway and aren't even trying to learn the game and losing to simple ass corner spamming death strokes. As a result we are gonna get an unbalanced mess of a game and when its gets really bad NRS will be like....HurrDurrr No Mo Patches..... For now on everytime I play a crappy player online and I feel they haven't even touched practice mode.I'll send em a message saying #SellYourGame That my new slogan

 

[16 Bit]

You keep saying "we" as if the community is the one doing it. The community may not grasp the game but the developers do. They're the ones that designed the game and have the design intent and the most experience playing the game. Take the Ares change. They know how they intended for God Smack to work and they know the tools Ares has and how he'll be with that change.

 

[DanCock]

Tomorrow we get a new balance patch. I do not want this patch. Maybe it is because I am a 35 year old man and maybe it is because I remember spending my quarters in the arcade during the days of .

Mk1, 2, 3, umk3, mk4 all received balance patches in the "old arcade days". Multiple patches in-fact. This is not something new.

I don't have time to read the rest of your post and the thread ATM, but I stopped right there.


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[Slips]

I'm 29 and remember standing in line for up to 30 minutes waiting to play SF2. You didn't hear the 30 people around the cabinet complaining that capcom needed to fix a single thing. MvC2, arguably the most popular FG of all time, had infinites and a broken roster and was successful for years. SSF2T same thing as well as UMK3. I feel a rant coming on but I'll stop.........but yeah it bothers me too man

Interestingly enough, I seem to remember standing in line for sf2 as well and there was an unwritten rule not only in the arcade, but seemingly nationwide that throws were too cheap and were 'banned'.

There was a reason why there were like 7 different versions of sf2 before it finally settled on SSF2T.

 

[RWDY Nori]

Interestingly enough, I seem to remember standing in line for sf2 as well and there was an unwritten rule not only in the arcade, but seemingly nationwide that throws were too cheap and were 'banned'.

There was a reason why there were like 7 different versions of sf2 before it finally settled on SSF2T.

I threw all the time. No wonder people were pissed at me then. I was never aware of that unwritten rule lol. I just played it off cause I was 7 or 8 years old. And I just assumed there were so many versions cause it was so popular, lik the KOF series having so many versions. At the time there was no competition and nothing like it so figured they just kept having them like a crack head mom keeps spitting out babies

 

[Dizzy]

If games were patched more often back in the day, it would have saved many monitors and skulls from jamessmk

 

[Zerosoulreaver]

Interestingly enough, I seem to remember standing in line for sf2 as well and there was an unwritten rule not only in the arcade, but seemingly nationwide that throws were too cheap and were 'banned'.

There was a reason why there were like 7 different versions of sf2 before it finally settled on SSF2T.

Yep, no throws...you throw someone you might get shot, legit.

 

[cR WoundCowboy]

There are some things that definitely need to be patched: Cyborg's infinite and Ares's reset are the two most obvious changes that are needed. There are also multiple glitches that they have to fix such as throws that do 9% and Sinestro's arachnid sting, a move that Paulo said was supposed to be a mid. From what I have heard so far there are not many actual "nerfs" and "buffs" being given, but mostly fixes for things that are broken. I am not sure why everyone is flipping out about this. You guys act like the whole game is going to be totally different.

 

[Crimson Panther]

I realize this is an echo of alot of gamers, especially this post, but I really hope they don't nerf or buff anything. Get rid of the infinites and resets but there is NOTHING wrong with this game. The players calling for nerfs or buffs simply are just upset because one or more characters are simply better than them, OR they don't want to figure out how to deal with it.

First week, I thought Superman beats Green Lantern easily. But with practice mode and the help of the community the Superman vs Green Lantern match up is, in my opinion, pretty even.

IF ever this game needs buffs or nerfs we won't know until we rip this game apart looking for answers in every situation of each MU. Which takes time and patience.

I do not want another MK9 as far as "balancing".

 

[M2Dave]

There was a reason why there were like 7 different versions of sf2 before it finally settled on SSF2T.

Seven different versions of SF2 over the span of years, not three weeks.

The same is true for Tekken 5.0 and Tekken 5: DR and Tekken 6.0 and Tekken 6:BR, etc.

These different versions were not released over night. Change is sometimes very good if you base changes on thousands of hours of gameplay, which is what was done with SF and Tekken.

 

[Crimson Panther]

There are some things that definitely need to be patched: Cyborg's infinite and Ares's reset are the two most obvious changes that are needed. There are also multiple glitches that they have to fix such as throws that do 9% and Sinestro's arachnid sting, a move that Paulo said was supposed to be a mid. From what I have heard so far there are not many actual "nerfs" and "buffs" being given, but mostly fixes for things that are broken. I am not sure why everyone is flipping out about this. You guys act like the whole game is going to be totally different.

Because it could. We won't know what NRS is going to do until it happens so there is the "just wait and see" argument, but NRS has catered to complaints that were nothing more than salt filled rants.

So of course, fix the glitches, infinites, resets, the mid attacks that actually hit high, and things like that. But completely changing how a character plays because of players spending their time ranting about "OP" characters instead of finding ways to deal with them, is something NRS has done before.

 

[Vulcan Hades]

If you want a game that never changes there is always Tekken.

 

[Posthuman]

The "balance" tweaks are not meant for the vast majority of players who post on this website. The educated audience knows that nothing should be changed gameplay wise aside from glitches and infinite combos. This patch is therefore aimed at the casual fan base who knows absolutely nothing about the game and never will, but they are NRS's most important fan base at the moment because of money (i.e., buying DLCs). They get their changes and they are happy. We get these changes and we may get a poorly balanced game in the long term.

This almost made me cry

 

[webreg]

The problem is NRS doesn't seem to have trustworthy professional players with the right mindset to run a patching strategy. Look a League of Legends for a second. It get's patched constantly and the buffs/nerfs are based on professional players feedback and usage analysis data. Sometimes they buff or nerf too hard so the next patch they adjust until it works out. And it does work out. There will always be kids who think they know better and are not happy that their overpowered favorite hero is now on par with everyone else.

In the FG community however everyone throws a tantrum at the mere thought of balancing or downplays clear advantages. So NRS doesn't get any valuable feedback from the people here which means they have to decide on their very own on what to do. And this runs the risk of nerfing the wrong thing or too hard because they lack the experience tournament players have. If the people here would just man up and discuss the game on a mature level then everyone would benefit from it and the game could evolve into something this scene has rarely seen. A balanced game where every character is viable. It works for every other gaming genre. You are not so special.

Either you run a patching/balancing strategy and then you have to do it regularly or you simply don't. Both strategies work out in the end but the first one produces better games.

 

[RWDY Nori]

Can't compare the PC and FG community. There are literally millions of PC gamers, FG, not so much. If we had large numbers like the PC crowd we would have a bigger voice

 

[cR WoundCowboy]

Because it could. We won't know what NRS is going to do until it happens so there is the "just wait and see" argument, but NRS has catered to complaints that were nothing more than salt filled rants.

So of course, fix the glitches, infinites, resets, the mid attacks that actually hit high, and things like that. But completely changing how a character plays because of players spending their time ranting about and "OP" characters instead of finding ways to deal with them, is something NRS has done before.

I can only think of one, possibly two characters that were badly nerfed in MK9: Sub Zero and Kano. And even without the nerfs, they still weren't amazing. People are acting like half the cast was unfairly downgraded.

 

[Crathen]

I bought Injustice knowing that i'm basically a tester for NRS and as we find out stupid shit it's going to be fixed with a patch ( if that wasn't meant to function that way by the developpers ) , Tekken does this ( SF too ) they released TTT2 in the arcades , let it play for almost a year and then patched some bugs ( like the Hworang TA unblockable reset filler ) then released the console version ( wich isn't bug free mind you ) .

Now i don't see how if that Hworang bug was patched three weeks after it was discovered can be a bad thing , as long they don't drop the ball after let'say 1 year.

Realize that we're all testers for NRS and deal with it

 

[cR WoundCowboy]

The problem is NRS doesn't seem to have trustworthy professional players with the right mindset to run a patching strategy. Look a League of Legends for a second. It get's patched constantly and the buffs/nerfs are based on professional players feedback and usage analysis data. Sometimes they buff or nerf too hard so the next patch they adjust until it works out. And it does work out. There will always be kids who think they know better and are not happy that their overpowered favorite hero is now on par with everyone else.

In the FG community however everyone throws a tantrum at the mere thought of balancing or downplays clear advantages. So NRS doesn't get any valuable feedback from the people here which means they have to decide on their very own on what to do. And this runs the risk of nerfing the wrong thing or too hard because they lack the experience tournament players have. If the people here would just man up and discuss the game on a mature level then everyone would benefit from it and the game could evolve into something this scene has rarely seen. A balanced game where every character is viable. It works for every other gaming genre. You are not so special.

the difference is that LOL can receive numerous patches. NRS can only patch a limited number of times and it is expensive to do so.