Stop Thinking in Absolutes

[salvificblood]

I have great respect for Tom Brady but honestly he is completely wrong here.

To say at this point in the game that "everyone is OP" is the height of myopic thinking. There are clearly characters better than others, with more tools than others, who can shut others down almost completely. Match-up numbers are becoming apparent, and for many it is not pretty.

It is not too early to start talking about these things. It is not too early to point out obvious differences, deficiencies, and exploits.

It does not make Injustice a bad game to point this stuff out. It does not make Injustice a failure to state the obvious. Quite the opposite actually - Injustice will only grow and prosper if we do confront tiers head on, and not hide our heads in the sand, repeating "everyone is op" over and over again.

Matchup numbers put Sub-Zero (thanks to Tom's work entirely, to be honest), in the top 3 of mk9's tier lists back in the early days. People don't even consider him a solid mid tier now, more like low mid/low tier. Remember how matchup numbers put Sonya blade way down and then people like Foxy grampa started blowing people up with her and she gradually became recognised as a top 5 character? Same for Jax who was buffed becaus ehe was originally thought to be trash.

The simple fact is, there's like 10 characters who have consistently been called "op" or "broken" ALREADY. It's fine to b*tch about something you don't understand yet, but this nerfs and buffs mentality so so early in the game's life is really weird to me. Are you not still concentrating on learning your character, matchups and trying to develope more solid mechanics?

 

[Rampage254]

Thank you, Based Brady. #tybb

 

[Gesture Required Ahead]

I have great respect for Tom Brady but honestly he is completely wrong here.

To say at this point in the game that "everyone is OP" is the height of myopic thinking. There are clearly characters better than others, with more tools than others, who can shut others down almost completely. Match-up numbers are becoming apparent, and for many it is not pretty.

It is not too early to start talking about these things. It is not too early to point out obvious differences, deficiencies, and exploits.

It does not make Injustice a bad game to point this stuff out. It does not make Injustice a failure to state the obvious. Quite the opposite actually - Injustice will only grow and prosper if we do confront tiers head on, and not hide our heads in the sand, repeating "everyone is op" over and over again.

You'd be correct, if only you added "in this current meta" in your opinion. because you're not thinking how those "characters with lesser tools" might DO get tools later in the game's life. And "those characters with more tools" might actually turn out to be a gimmick.

These are things in Fighting Games that you just can't tell early in a game's life.

 

[RYX]

You'd be correct, if only you added "in this current meta" in your opinion. because you're not thinking how those "characters with lesser tools" might DO get tools later in the game's life. And "those characters with more tools" might actually turn out to be a gimmick.

These are things in Fighting Games that you just can't tell early in a game's life.

Like how Bane has been shown that he has tools?

 

[Zyos]

The amount of buff/nerf threads is ridiculous i read some of these threads and feel the only way people would be happy is if every charachter was stuck in place and only had 2 attacks 1 and 2, and they were all the same damage/frames.

What i have described is virtual rock and sockem robots
Put my idea to work and they'll all be happy

 

[DamagePoints]

Tom Brady
why is NRS nerfing characters already then?? Honesty I love their games but I am starting to like capcom more because they don't make adjustments this early on. NRS has this game out for 3 weeks and is already changing characters. It's so pathetic to me.

 

[Jeffreys]

Doomsday needs nerfs

Says a superman main

Trolololol

 

[Malec]

Tom Brady
why is NRS nerfing characters already then?? Honesty I love their games but I am starting to like capcom more because they don't make adjustments this early on. NRS has this game out for 3 weeks and is already changing characters. It's so pathetic to me.

are they nerfing anything? they cut out the block infinites, other than that, nothing is confirmed, or is it?

 

[Gesture Required Ahead]

Tom Brady
why is NRS nerfing characters already then?? Honesty I love their games but I am starting to like capcom more because they don't make adjustments this early on. NRS has this game out for 3 weeks and is already changing characters. It's so pathetic to me.

This is a con of having a more accessible fighter. There are more casuals so there are more scrubby opinions that are harder to drown with reason.

 

[Sao87]

I've been gaming competitively for 10+ years and can say this with absolute certainty. The entrepreneurs will always be doing the best, the students will always stay one step behind. Seek general knowledge to help with matchup experience or possibly some way to maximize potential of something you're doing but dont rely on people to tell you how the game should be played. Everyone has their own playstyle that suits them best and your creativity + hard work will pay off if you push yourself.

Look at it this way. Lets assume Tom Brady and REO are the best at the game (possibly). If you're always waiting for them to feed you their scraps of knowledge will you ever surpass them? You have to put in the same amount of effort they are in order to surpass them. Don't fall into this pattern if you intend to be truly competitive.

Everyone online says Deathstroke and Doomsday are the best? How do you as a person approach this? Do you say, oh well shit I'm having a hard time blocking doomsdays gimmicks and getting around deathstrokes zoning? Or do you take it as a personal challenge and say fuck that, I'm going to prove that these opinions are wrong with gameplay and not theorycrafting?

I've gone through most of the cast at this point and there is not a single character I've seen that I don't see a TON of potential with.

Moral of the story. Top players don't depend on anybodys opinions but their own.

 

[The Gabriel]

Less than a month in.. and... "Match-up numbers are becoming apparent, and for many it is not pretty" .. Less than a month in? How can you be so sure on these MU's less than one month into the games life?...

and i never said "everyone is OP".. I said that to me they are all in a tie for #1 until I get more exp...

I wouldn't say I'm "so sure of" these matchups, but I'm closer to that side of the spectrum than saying its too early to comment on matchups at all. A month in is enough time to start to pick this stuff apart. It doesn't take a month of playing MvC2 to realize Sentinel has a few more tools than servbot.

Things will change and evolve, new tools will be discovered, but its shouldnt be a radical notion to say that this far in that everyone is NOT the same.

 

[DamagePoints]

Yeah is been pretty much confirmed that his trait will only allow for 3 bats to be out

 

[Tom Brady]

I've been gaming competitively for 10+ years and can say this with absolute certainty. The entrepreneurs will always be doing the best, the students will always stay one step behind. Seek general knowledge to help with matchup experience or possibly some way to maximize potential of something you're doing but dont rely on people to tell you how the game should be played. Everyone has their own playstyle that suits them best and your creativity + hard work will pay off if you push yourself.

Look at it this way. Lets assume Tom Brady and REO are the best at the game (possibly). If you're always waiting for them to feed you their scraps of knowledge will you ever surpass them? You have to put in the same amount of effort they are in order to surpass them. Don't fall into this pattern if you intend to be truly competitive.

Everyone online says Deathstroke and Doomsday are the best? How do you as a person approach this? Do you say, oh well shit I'm having a hard time blocking doomsdays gimmicks and getting around deathstrokes zoning? Or do you take it as a personal challenge and say fuck that, I'm going to prove that these opinions are wrong with gameplay and not theorycrafting?

I've gone through most of the cast at this point and there is not a single character I've seen that I don't see a TON of potential with.

Moral of the story. Top players don't depend on anybodys opinions but their own.

QFT...

There are those players who will lose to a DD or DS and think "ahh well, these characters are the best anyway, thats why I lose.. The characters are too good.. everyone says it".. The players that emerge to be top are the ones who do not believe in things like this, they believe there is a way around things and they find it. Its then that ppl see the "too good" characters were only just good or not that good at all.

 

[Sao87]

I have great respect for Tom Brady but honestly he is completely wrong here.

To say at this point in the game that "everyone is OP" is the height of myopic thinking. There are clearly characters better than others, with more tools than others, who can shut others down almost completely. Match-up numbers are becoming apparent, and for many it is not pretty.

It is not too early to start talking about these things. It is not too early to point out obvious differences, deficiencies, and exploits.

It does not make Injustice a bad game to point this stuff out. It does not make Injustice a failure to state the obvious. Quite the opposite actually - Injustice will only grow and prosper if we do confront tiers head on, and not hide our heads in the sand, repeating "everyone is op" over and over again.

Hes not saying there wont be a superior characters hes saying at this point don't write any character off. Just because its easier to understand why someone like superman, aquaman, batman, etc are solid characters doesn't make "weaker" feeling characters bad at the game.

For example: Try telling me that Shazam is a bad character and I could easily make an argument as to why hes one of the best characters in the game. Just because certain characters don't have that instant gratification factor doesn't mean they're truly bad, the best characters will be shown as time progresses.

 

[Tom Brady]

I wouldn't say I'm "so sure of" these matchups, but I'm closer to that side of the spectrum than saying its too early to comment on matchups at all. A month in is enough time to start to pick this stuff apart. It doesn't take a month of playing MvC2 to realize Sentinel has a few more tools than servbot.

Things will change and evolve, new tools will be discovered, but its shouldnt be a radical notion to say that this far in that everyone is NOT the same.

I didn't say everyone was the same.. i said I do not have enough information to say which characters are what. Do I believe that they are all REALLY the same? Absolutely not.. Do I have any HARD proof of any MU's right now that I would bet my life on? no..

Hence, I reserve my opinions until I actually know what I am talking about.

 

[GNG Iniquity]

Doomsday needs nerfs

>Now playing Superman
>Still complaining

 

[Soul Bound X]

This thread is basically just common sense.

 

[xenogorgeous]

Tom is right, people .... let the game mature more and so, we gonna have a better overview about what is good and what is broken in this shit, hehe .....

 

[salvificblood]

Hes not saying there wont be a superior characters hes saying at this point don't write any character off. Just because its easier to understand why someone like superman, aquaman, batman, etc are solid characters doesn't make "weaker" feeling characters bad at the game.

For example: Try telling me that Shazam is a bad character and I could easily make an argument as to why hes one of the best characters in the game. Just because certain characters don't have that instant gratification factor doesn't mean they're truly bad, the best characters will be shown as time progresses.

It's like how people don't play Irelia in league anymore because the sustain on her hiten style got nerfed when, in reality, she still has favourable matchups across the board top lane, is barely countered by a single champion and has one of the best scalings in the game, but no, she's bad because she isn't picked in lcs and has low damage output at level 1 and 2. She actually demolishes on one of the most popular top laners at the moment (Renekton), but nobody plays her because they follow the trend. Must follow the crowd. Give thought to nothing.

 

[Sao87]

It's like how people don't play Irelia in league anymore because the sustain on her hiten style got nerfed when, in reality, she still has favourable matchups across the board top lane, is barely countered by a single champion and has one of the best scalings in the game, but no, she's bad because she isn't picked in lcs and has low damage output at level 1 and 2. She actually demolishes on one of the most popular top laners at the moment (Renekton), but nobody plays her because they follow the trend. Must follow the crowd. Give thought to nothing.

Inb4 shut up about league. We both play league so understand eachothers feels.

 

[salvificblood]

Inb4 shut up about league. We both play league so understand eachothers feels.

Moral of the story: develope your understanding of the game and make your own decisions. That's a life lesson, too; that's how to resemble a human being, lol.

 

[Ravensbaine]

It's like how people don't play Irelia in league anymore because the sustain on her hiten style got nerfed when, in reality, she still has favourable matchups across the board top lane, is barely countered by a single champion and has one of the best scalings in the game, but no, she's bad because she isn't picked in lcs and has low damage output at level 1 and 2. She actually demolishes on one of the most popular top laners at the moment (Renekton), but nobody plays her because they follow the trend. Must follow the crowd. Give thought to nothing.

But we better nerf Irelia jk jk so true though shes still an amazing character

 

[SilverKeyMan]

I am a shitty player with a shitty W/L record. When I encounter a good online player I rematch them until THEY give up, either due to losing a few matches or boredom at defeating me. I then go into practice mode, figure out which string/moves they were using, whether it hits high/med/low/overhead, and how to best defend against it. Put the AI on "record" and spam that string until I learn to defend against it with my character.

Yesterday I couldn't defend against Superman. Today I feel very comfortable with the match-up. How the hell could I possibly determine which character has the edge when it is so dependent on my (lack of) knowledge?

 

[GodsLonelyman]

are they nerfing anything? they cut out the block infinites, other than that, nothing is confirmed, or is it?

Yes, Ares has been confirmed to be nerfed. His b23 string will now be able to be techrolled so his "reset" becomes a 50/50 for both you and the opponent. This was confirmed somewhere in a thread by colt

 

[Pig Of The Hut]

IMO.. there is a 24 way tie for #1 until I actually get some knowledge or enough exp to think anything different.

Bane #1?