Black Adam General Discussion Thread

[smokey]

Qwark28 If you read a backdash after the divekick you can just dash up or jump in and you can get the combo as a punish. Spacing dependant.

I know for fact that if Lex Luthor backdashes after B23 on block (+3) you can jump in 2 for full combo .

 

[Qwark28]

Qwark28 If you read a backdash after the divekick you can just dash up or jump in and you can get the combo as a punish. Spacing dependant.

I know for fact that if Lex Luthor backdashes after B23 on block (+3) you can jump in 2 for full combo .

and if they dont you forfeit all pressure at best

its all a guessing game which isnt in adams favor most of the time, not many people have as shity backdash recoveries like luthor

someone like joker for example cant really depend on a backdash because his is horrible, someone like batman though, who is a problem, can reliably safely backdash

 

[smokey]

How is it a guessing game not in adams favour when you are at +7. Seriously?

 

[Qwark28]

How is it a guessing game not in adams favour when you are at +7. Seriously?

whered the hell +7 come from

some characters can backdash b ecause they recover fast enough and cover enough distance, some cant.

those who can you cant jump on because they have already recovered

 

[Vulcan Hades]

6% and 30% of my bar back during which if they unblock i get 19% and a free setup of MANY

all for a little over half a bar

why not?

but using it for ex divekick which is a third of the chip and all the pressure afterwards is backdashable is better?

I didn't say that.

You said it's cool to black magic > lightning strike from full screen because it's a nice frametrap with MB lightning strike that can beat wake ups. But who even does a wake up attack from fullscreen is what I'm saying. There's no reason for them not to block at that point. So 90% of the time it's really just going to be 5% chip.

From midscreen and closer I can understand that projectile trap but not from fullscreen. Unless they have like no life left and you're just looking to chip.

But out of curiosity what are those many setups you have after lightning strike MB? I admit I haven't really explored that knockdown yet but it doesn't seem like you have much time or space to do much. Maybe in the corner?

 

[smokey]

whered the hell +7 come from

some characters can backdash b ecause they recover fast enough and cover enough distance, some cant.

those who can you cant jump on because they have already recovered

EX Divekick on block -
"6% and 30% of my bar back during which if they unblock i get 19% and a free setup of MANY

all for a little over half a bar

why not?

but using it for ex divekick which is a third of the chip and all the pressure afterwards is backdashable is better?"

Youre saying that getting 6% chip instead of going for the EX Divekick to close space, which if thats blocked you get +7...

 

[Qwark28]

I didn't say that.

You said it's cool to black magic > lightning strike from full screen because it's a nice frametrap with MB lightning strike that can beat wake ups. But who even does a wake up attack from fullscreen is what I'm saying. There's no reason for them not to block at that point. So 90% of the time it's really just going to be 5% chip.

From midscreen and closer I can understand that projectile trap but not from fullscreen. Unless they have like no life left and you're just looking to chip.

But out of curiosity what are those many setups you have after lightning strike MB? I admit I haven't really explored that knockdown yet but it doesn't seem like you have much time or space to do much. Maybe in the corner?

the wakeups that will be done can be things like supermans air grab if they think they can avoid it, doomsdays supernova, green arrows overhead arrow explosion. in general, things that someone would think have invincibility or could threaten you from anywhere on the screen because theyre fast/can catch you off guard etc but ex lightning rips through

setups from lightning are

Far bomb with very little recovery after the lightning knockdown
Whiff an instant divekick in
Double dash
Ex lightning
Guaranteed unjumpable undashable black magic unlike lightning that will catch them as theyre doing it
Dash ex divekick if they dont tech roll

You can bait a lot of shit, especially vs rushdown chars who have the tools to blow your oki setups , grundy for instance. say you put out a bomb and he walks with armour through it, there are tons of stuff you could do to destroy it, even completely nullify doomsdays trait with a bar

 

[Vulcan Hades]

tbh EX dive kick should only really be used to whiff punish, not randomly to get in. Black Adam doesn't need that to get in since he has good walkspeed and one of the best dashes in the game. Plus normal dive kick is already safe.

Qwark28: Cool thanks. I guess I'll try the lightning frametrap more just to see how often it works and if it's worth the meter or not.

 

[Qwark28]

EX Divekick on block -
"6% and 30% of my bar back during which if they unblock i get 19% and a free setup of MANY

all for a little over half a bar

why not?

but using it for ex divekick which is a third of the chip and all the pressure afterwards is backdashable is better?"

Youre saying that getting 6% chip instead of going for the EX Divekick to close space, which if thats blocked you get +7...

i know you didnt say that but ima say i dont think theyre both not worth it, theyre both just as good.

+9 is from a distance you cant D1 to stuff a backdash and punish it, also, most backdashes will outspeed the floaty ass jump and have time to block or do another or even AA

 

[smokey]

i know you didnt say that but ima say i dont think theyre both not worth it, theyre both just as good.

+9 is from a distance you cant D1 to stuff a backdash and punish it, also, most backdashes will outspeed the floaty ass jump and have time to block or do another or even AA

Its situational but if you can jump in 2 some backdashes then you sure as hell can react to a backdash with a divekick.

The best time for EX lightning is if you are keeping them out for time reasons or trying to interrupt armour on the way in.

 

[Qwark28]

when we get frame data fixed i wanna see ex lightning on block

 

[Smarrgasm]

Guys if you think theyll back dash try to get it with instant ex dive. 40% on hit. +9 on block.

 

[Qwark28]

Its situational but if you can jump in 2 some backdashes then you sure as hell can react to a backdash with a divekick.

The best time for EX lightning is if you are keeping them out for time reasons or trying to interrupt armour on the way in.

how will you react when you have a 10th of a second to cash in your + frames? you WILL lose some if you dont commit

you might react but youre not going to punish any backdash, you just cant punish them on reaction in a situation that requires you to do shit right here right now

 

[Qwark28]

Guys if you think theyll back dash try to get it with instant ex dive. 40% on hit. +9 on block.

tell me the combo, i only get 31%

 

[Smarrgasm]

It has to be a complete read and you guys are pretty much theorycrafting. In game youll have to see what works and how you read or react. Thats it. Enough random theory arguing lol.

 

[Smarrgasm]

tell me the combo, i only get 31%

Ex dive 11 trait b23 1+3 it can be 39-40% depending on when the orbs all connect. Dont try it online though. Its pretty strict.

 

[smokey]

how will you react when you have a 10th of a second to cash in your + frames? you WILL lose some if you dont commit

you might react but youre not going to punish any backdash, you just cant punish them on reaction in a situation that requires you to do shit right here right now

Again, its situational depending on the backdash. Not everyone has Black Adams backdash. You do have to make the read, but you can jump and then divekick as soon as you see them backdash, the recovery is punishable in most cases, and if you are that unsure just MB it for another +7.

Even them backdashing is still worth the meter because they are only going to be jammed in the corner.

 

[smokey]

It has to be a complete read and you guys are pretty much theorycrafting. In game youll have to see what works and how you read or react. Thats it. Enough random theory arguing lol.

I was doing it yesterday vs ketchups lex and mustards bane. They both were getting full combo'd if i read a backdash.

 

[Smarrgasm]

I was doing it yesterday vs ketchups lex and mustards bane. They both were getting full combo'd if i read a backdash.

I know im not saying you cant punish backdashes im saying that you both have points but its all based on making a read. Each has an advantage and disadvantage to it. Thats why you have to make the read in the first place. Dont sit here and argue when you both have valid points.

 

[Vulcan Hades]

To paraphrase Justin Wong: "You can't punish something if your eyes and hands have not been trained for that situation."

Reads are just as important as reaction and it's something that can be practiced. Especially for stuff that is nearly impossible to react to like dive kick, KF's slide, backdash, AAs and reversals in general. Even if you can't punish a move on reaction it's important to know how to counter them as reads.

 

[smokey]

From playing yesterday offline a lot of Black Adams openings come from reads. Because he has no high-low game you have to establish mixups using frame traps and reads on your opponent pushing buttons, where you can frame trap for combo damage, or them backdashing, jumping, armouring, or doing something else to get away.

Because of the amount of times you can get a blocked B23 you need to establish the d1 and also the jump in (for unsafe backdashers) or jump~Divekick to chase safe backdashes and either punish, or MB for that +7.

You can also go with throws and D3 in his frame traps, which will keep people in check for stand blocking your pressure, and also for being too idle when reacting to frame traps.

Keep track of their options and how they use them, and make sure you know what to do to punish them if they try the same thing too often. Theres no use in being + onblock and having your trait up and throwing down frame traps left and right if they are just gonna stand there and block until you do something to let them out like get a d1~shocker blocked or something.

 

[Vulcan Hades]

Some AA combos:

-2 xx black magic, fj2, b2,3, u1+3 (28%)
-b2, 1,1 xx black magic, dash, b2,3, u1+3 (26/34% depending if you use trait or not)
-f3 MB, 2,2,b1, fj3, far dive kick (29%)
-b3 MB, fj3, far dive kick, b2,3,u1+3 (39%)

I think in some matchups I will keep most of my meter for b3 MB lol. It's so good.

The react window is similar to catching jumps with black magic. So it's tougher online but possible.

EDIT: Actually you can react pretty late and it will still hit before they are able to block:

 

[Qwark28]

Some AA combos:

hahaha good one

 

[xSMoKEx]

For cross overs try using lightning cage on wake-up. It actually has a shit ton of invincibility frames a nasty hitbox. For anti airs I usually space and shocker, or as the others have mentioned B23 as they land and take the frame advantage.

Also, for those of you who didn't know, B2~Trait guarantees you a throw. The opponent MUST tech. Should help soften them up a little bit

Oh i should add 2-3 of the orbs hit during the grab animation, and as you know trait does like 4% or something on hit as opposed to the 1. something percent on block. So really if the throw lands it nets you like 19-23% depending on the timing. Not bad

 

[Qwark28]

Oh i should add 2-3 of the orbs hit during the grab animation, and as you know trait does like 4% or something on hit as opposed to the 1. something percent on block. So really if the throw lands it nets you like 19-23% depending on the timing. Not bad

was doing it after a 1+2 knockdown but didnt know b2 guaranteed it