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General/Other I think Raven is is gonna be mid-low tier.

Espio

Espio

Kokomo
I think she's really good, but she does have some weaknesses like not as much range on her normals.

I really do not see how she's low tier or low mid at all, she has good counterzoning options and good space control with her specials. It's too early to say where she will fall in the grand scheme of things though.
 
Connor Phoenix

Connor Phoenix

Noob
Blind_Man said:
The predictability is good because then you can chip them for free with the pillars and the full screen pull because they're expecting a teleport. I agree with j2. Thats what I use everytime I do an air tele.
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I always used to use j3 after air teleport but j2 is far superior. Because of the knockdown on j3 if you do it too high then you can't combo off of it. j2 can be done a lot quicker and you can still combo out of it.
 
zaf

zaf

professor
ImNewbieSauce said:
Haha. I mean, for my tourney career and hipsterness i hope everyone sleeps on raven. But....well...shes awesome. I really dont know what else to say. Good damage, advantage strings and safe strings, low launcher, safe specials, stance tele, full screen safe pull ambiguous crossover j3...shes a beast. But by all means, make my life easier. I hope the raven community downplays harder than the reptile community. But no joke...shes very good. Albeit very ugly.
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specials are not safe. singularity is -10 , and has short range outside demon form. It can be punished but won't be all the time.
soul crush is -20 and gets people dash ins to start pressure around mid range. even if it is "safe" close to mid range, you are giving them a free in. projectile is -14.

pimpimjim said:
am I the only one here that thinks besides her lift and crush, she is not really similar to ermac at all?
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i actually find more similarities between them then just the lift and crush.

i like her blockstrings, they have good pushback for counter poking. You can use lunging normals after 334(which is +6, so its a good frame trap) like b23 and even use b23 after a b23. ermac is slightly similar like this with pushback moves into lunging normals.
the fact that you make people block because of crush and lift gives a similar play style of abusing block and reading their movement to that of ermacs.


Espio said:
I think she's really good, but she does have some weaknesses like not as much range on her normals.
I really do not see how she's low tier at all, she has good counterzoning options and good space control with her specials. It's too early to say where she will fall in the grand scheme of things.
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for range with normals, try f222, it has good advancing space. also try b23.

b123 is a good low ( first two hits) but has really short range. if you are close and feel it might whiff but want to try and remain safe then do the third hit which is the 3. it has a similar animation to the 3 in b23.
 
Espio

Espio

Kokomo
zaf said:
for range with normals, try f222, it has good advancing space. also try b23.

b123 is a good low ( first two hits) but has really short range. if you are close and feel it might whiff but want to try and remain safe then do the third hit which is the 3. it has a similar animation to the 3 in b23.
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Just tried back 1,2, 3 and absolutely love it, thanks a lot man :).

I was messing around with back 2 3 yesterday, it's also really safe on block with pushback, which is awesome.
 
Euphoric

Euphoric

MKX
How do you guys input/confirm F222? I feel like I have to commit to it because the F2 is same as F222 and from my experience you can only link a special after the second F22.

I should probably stick to her 223 string...eventho F222 is good.
 
zaf

zaf

professor
Karried said:
How do you guys input/confirm F222? I feel like I have to commit to it because the F2 is same as F222 and from my experience you can only link a special after the second F22,,,

I should probably stick to her 223 string...eventho F222 is good.
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i literally just press f+222.
If i see the first hit is blocked, i usually never confirm anything.
Its easy to jump in, and see if the first hit of F222 hits and then just roll out a down back 2.

You just need to get used to comboing into the specials after it.
What is also cool about raven and ermac and where i find similarities is with their combo links.
Ermac b114~tks is the exact same input as f222~singularity.
the same way i hit confirm/ input f222 and b114 into special is the same.
 
zaf

zaf

professor
Espio said:
Just tried back 1,2, 3 and absolutely love it, thanks a lot man :).

I was messing around with back 2 3 yesterday, it's also really safe on block with pushback, which is awesome.
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np man. I really dug deep with her block strings and looked for ways to use them.
they are similar to what i am used to so its what i am using for now.

One string i think is being over looking is f2233.
This has the same start up as your regular f222, but the last two hits are with her legs into a meaty knockdown.
The last 3 is also an overhead. You can use this to open up your opponent if you notice your counter pokes arent making them poke.

i do use f22u1 when i hit confirm the f2.
i like to use this on a punish or a jump in punish because you can extend the combo at the beginning with f222u1 into f222~lift.
This allows you to use just one meter instead of two, and still gives you a nice 40% combo.

i like b23, for reasons explained above.

223 is really good on a jump in 1 because the jump in is + on block and allows you to start the 223.
There is a gap in between 2 and 3 though. also like this because of what i said above.
I Have also been using 22 as an AA now. Sometimes the first 2 whiffs and then the 2 will still catch them, other times the first 2 connects. You can link this into a lift.

b12/b123.
good but very short range. can link into lift and the last hit gives a nice knockback set up.

not a fan yet of any 11 strings ( 11f2, 11b2, 113) yet.
The 11 whiffs on crouch block, but i assume hits big hitbox characters. havent had the chance to play to many of those yet to test.

EDIT: sorry forgot f13.

I like f13. It is +3 on block and also gives the same knockback that the other good blockstrings do. You can use this in your set ups as well, it also is a good advancing string.
 
Connor Phoenix

Connor Phoenix

Noob
Karried said:
How do you guys input/confirm F222? I feel like I have to commit to it because the F2 is same as F222 and from my experience you can only link a special after the second F22.

I should probably stick to her 223 string...eventho F222 is good.
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223 is obviously amazing because it's +6 on block and easier to confirm into but it does do 5% less damage which is why I've been using f222. f222 is hard to confirm and basically has to be committed to but it's safe on block so it's not too bad. It also moves you quite far forwards so it's hard to punish even if you miss.
 
Euphoric

Euphoric

MKX
zaf getting better at confirming the string, it's still hard for me, because F22 does nothing, Lol. Question, is her air to air followed up by 22/F222? And, how do you advance in this game while blocking o overhead projectile, thank god, Raven has a trait that lets her teleport.
 
zaf

zaf

professor
Karried said:
zaf getting better at confirming the string, it's still hard for me, because F22 does nothing, Lol. Question, is her air to air followed up by 22/F222? And, how do you advance in this game while blocking o overhead projectile, thank god, Raven has a trait that lets her teleport.
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good stuff, just keep practising thats all that will fix it. You will get muscle memory for it.
After an air to air, depending on the height, you can just go into a lift.
but usually i try to catch them with a blockstring first, i use f222.

I advance several ways in general.

- You can shoot a fireball, and then dash as soon as you can when they block. Her dash covers a lot of area and if you are doing this full screen, you put yourself in your perfect range.

- You can just walk forward and when you see a projectile just hold down. Raven is made to punish projectiles. You can punish aquamans ground spike, killer frost ground spike, one of doomsdays projectiles, etc. just check the cast for the projectile block advantage and see what you can work with. She can grab a lot of people mid screen, so this is what you generally want to do. bait them into using projectiles. If they are being a little safe with the projectiles, then you can abuse this by dashing in..

- for overhead projectiles specifically, when advancing and i want to block i hold back at the right times. Just go into training and practise the timing for overheads. You are kind of looking for projectiles and punishes in general as raven, so its not uncommon to expect a projectile and you can jump over them. Or if you are watching sinestro proplerly you can see the overhead rock and just dash forward to avoid it and punish. Its really different for all projectiles. just go in training and see what your options are.

if you have trait, you can always anticpate something, jump it and tele punish. it has to be on a read because doing this to punish is predictable and you can trap yourself sometimes. if this is happening too much, start using pillars more to chip at them ( hella chip) and force them to move, so you can punish.
 
GGA Saucy Jack

GGA Saucy Jack

The artist formerly known as ImNewbieSauce
Zaf and riddler are right. I shouldnt have said "safe" specials. I should have said "relatively" safe. If youre throwing them out willy nilly they are unsafe. At point blank they are unsafe. But with proper spacing and timing, two of the three might as well be safe.

Soul crush is the only one punished at distance.
Simgularity is barely unsafe. If not point blank, it is safe.
And her projectile is -14 at point blank. Who throws it out then? Come on zaf, you know thats not what i meant at all.

So yes, from a purely math standpoint, you two are right, they arent safe. But without braindead play, two of the three are completely, and one only eats full screen fast projectiles.
 
zaf

zaf

professor
ImNewbieSauce said:
Zaf and riddler are right. I shouldnt have said "safe" specials. I should have said "relatively" safe. If youre throwing them out willy nilly they are unsafe. At point blank they are unsafe. But with proper spacing and timing, two of the three might as well be safe.

Soul crush is the only one punished at distance.
Simgularity is barely unsafe. If not point blank, it is safe.
And her projectile is -14 at point blank. Who throws it out then? Come on zaf, you know thats not what i meant at all.

So yes, from a purely math standpoint, you two are right, they arent safe. But without braindead play, two of the three are completely, and one only eats full screen fast projectiles.
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no i know thats not what you meant, but i didnt want the wrong message about her specials getting out there. that they are spammable and unpunishable. she has to be played smart and you have to know what goes where and when.
 
GGA Saucy Jack

GGA Saucy Jack

The artist formerly known as ImNewbieSauce
zaf said:
no i know thats not what you meant, but i didnt want the wrong message about her specials getting out there. that they are spammable and unpunishable. she has to be played smart and you have to know what goes where and when.
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On that good sir we agree.
 
Reactions: zaf
bc_atlas

bc_atlas

Noob
If you think Raven is going to be mid-low tier you haven't played enough of the cast yet. Go try Harley Quinn for a bit and then see if you think that.

She's no Ares or Aquaman, but she seems competent enough.
 
joshhetfield

joshhetfield

Noob
Don't worry about tiers, just pick your character and enjoy the game.


Raven reminds me of nocturnal from skyrim, both of them are associated with darkness and they both have that condescending deep voice.
 
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