Strategy The Boy Wonder! -- Nightwing General Discussion Thread

[Saitsu]

I figured that those would the most viable. So d12 into kickflip would be the cross up and f213 into kickflip would stay in front creating the mix up? I won't be able to test until later but could you be knocked out of the kick flip if you the f213 string since it doesn't grant frame adv.?

Since you're canceling the string you should be fine.

Hey guys, after getting bodied online for a few hours, I have a few question for your Nighwing professors.

1. What are Nightwing's options on wakeup? I always seems to get stuffed after I get knockdown.
2. Is JI2 really that good of an incoming attack? It's cross-up range seems really small (in comparison). It gets rocked by Anti-airs (Flashes D2 for example). I know JI3 is a good air-to-air, but you can really combo afterwards ( I mean I do a D1,2,DF2, but that's not much of a combo).
3. Has anyone worked out any Staff BnBs? Now that I read up on this thread that staff is where Nightwing's game lies, it makes complete sense to me. I was only successful when I kept my distance and poked with the staffs amazing normals. Nightwing seems more like a spacing/footsies type of character and not a rushdown one.
Thanks!

1. Well blocking and pushblocking are always best. In Escrima, Flip Kick can work. In Staff, you may be able to get away with Staff Spin. Do not wakeup too much though, believe in your blocking ability.

2. Meh, not really. The hitstun isn't great, the hitbox is not much either. Use it to switch up the pace from constant j3s but j3 is almost always superior, and you can get decent combos off of crossup j3's and deep hits.

3. Yeah we got plenty. Check the BnB thread for more since we'd be here a while if I named them here.

 

[LeonEsla]

Thank you! I will definitely check that thread. It might help me not suck as much.

Also, is it me or is his B2 amazing? It has a great range, it is pretty fast, and everyone is falling for it. I have also actually managed to use it as an anti-air when I space it correctly.

 

[Saitsu]

Thank you! I will definitely check that thread. It might help me not suck as much.

Also, is it me or is his B2 amazing? It has a great range, it is pretty fast, and everyone is falling for it. I have also actually managed to use it as an anti-air when I space it correctly.

Yes, it's pretty incredible. It's also safe. If you know your combos afterwards you're golden.

 

[Evid3nts]

I was going to say the same thing. Good Stuff also yeah his wake up game is pretty weak compared to the rest of the cast. I tried waking up with flip kick a couple of times but I tend to not rely on it. I have been hit out of it a few times on wake up so i don't consider it to be reliable. Like Saitsu said believe in your blocking ability. Keep in mind holding down on the controller allows you to duck highs, and block mids and lows. Assuming you can react to overheads and push block accordingly, you will do fine not having a wake up attack. If you have the meter you could b3(MB) or f3 (MB) i tend not to use these that often though. I use those moves mainly to armor up when my opponent throws an unblock-able object at me.

 

[Cosmic_Castaway]

Well, I mean, you get normals with disjointed hitboxes, a tracking projectile, a safe move to stuff armor, an almost-fullscreen whiff punisher, and an incredible spacing and poke game. Yeah, Staff is pretty godlike.

Just don't give up too much damage to transition to staff, that's the thing. I always see people give up so much damage for other stuff like oki, just to have it blocked, and then it ends up not being worth it in the long run. Like, I'm not going to transition to staff when I should be putting damage on the board.

It also seems dependent on matchup as to how much you should use Staff. Against someone like Harley I'm going to stay in escrima longer to stuff her air-to-airs with Escrima j3, or duck her guns and play mind games with spark holds and cancels. Against Killer Frost you should be using batarangs to blow up her zoning and forcing her to come to you. Staff is great against those characters too, obviously, but Spark shines more until you get them to play your game.

Not to say I disagree with Evi, because I don't.

P.S. b2, b1,1~4~db3 does not work as far as I can tell. Recovery on b1,1 is too long. Idk what to do off b2 besides b2~4~db3 (16% as opposed to 19% off b2, df2, b2). I've gotten b2, 2,2 to work, but it's inconsistent at best and just straight out whiffs at max range. 3,3~4~db3 does work, however.

 

[Saitsu]

Or you can just do b2, 3 xx df2, into another b2~4 if you need staff or j3 xx j.db1 if you want Escrima. Or b2 xx db2 DC if you want to maintain pressure.

 

[Cosmic_Castaway]

Yeah those are really good, just seemed like he just wanted ones that ended in db3 so I looked for those.

I know JI3 is a good air-to-air, but you can really combo afterwards ( I mean I do a D1,2,DF2, but that's not much of a combo).

You can do j3, 1, df2, j3, j.db1. Does 30-32% based on how many batarangs hit.

 

[Endeavor]

Ok fellow nightwing players, help me out here, can someone tell me what strings I should be trying to approach with in escrima mode? I have been trying to get in with f213 but usually, i get beat out, from what I have been reading b2 is the way to go. I have been experimenting with using 1,1 but anyone with any real range kind of fucks me, plus after playing a little bit against DJT i realized i was being an idiot cause while I do know combos I need to learn block-strings, can anyone give me a good block-string to use?

 

[Saitsu]

Ok fellow nightwing players, help me out here, can someone tell me what strings I should be trying to approach with in escrima mode? I have been trying to get in with f213 but usually, i get beat out, from what I have been reading b2 is the way to go. I have been experimenting with using 1,1 but anyone with any real range kind of fucks me, plus after playing a little bit against DJT i realized i was being an idiot cause while I do know combos I need to learn block-strings, can anyone give me a good block-string to use?

To get in? B2 is your best bet. If it's blocked you're safe. If you NEED to get in regardless of combos, just b2 Cancel into Ground Spark Dash Cancel and you're in. Risky but you're in.

Other than that, there's always b112. Once you're in, d12 is your friend.

 

[Endeavor]

To get in? B2 is your best bet. If it's blocked you're safe. If you NEED to get in regardless of combos, just b2 Cancel into Ground Spark Dash Cancel and you're in. Risky but you're in.

Other than that, there's always b112. Once you're in, d12 is your friend.

Ok so using b2 to get in the best thing. I was not aware that dash canceling existed in this game cause as far as I know dashing has recovery and you cant attack straight out of it. So as far as blockstrings when and IF I do get in, it would look something like b2, dash cancel d12 db3 (I think thatis the command for flip kick, thought at the moment I'm not sure). Or should i do d12 over again, forgive me if I seem overly ignorant, I'm use to Mk blockstrings using things like 2,1 for subzero or kung lao or f3 for johnny cage over and over again. Also as far as counter poking and getting out of pressure, is b2 a good option for that or is d12 better, i know in certain situation 11 can workk.

 

[Saitsu]

You can't attack straight out of it. You're cancelling the Ground Spark into a dash to move in. Which is why I said it was slightly risky. But it can spook people. You get in, then use your d12s to get pressure. It's +8 on block, so you can abuse it.

Counter poking, be cautious with b2. If the opponent decides to jump...you're dead. d12 is likely you're best option. If you're getting pressured though THE best option is pushblock. That resets things to a somewhat neutral standpoint and will get your bearings back.

 

[DocCeaser]

I really don't know how much we can actually trust this frame data. I just tried to punish flip kick, f213, and 113 with 6 frame attacks and failed every time. All of those are supposed to punishable.

 

[Saitsu]

I really don't know how much we can actually trust this frame data. I just tried to punish flip kick, f213, and 113 with 6 frame attacks and failed every time. All of those are supposed to punishable.

If you want, I can test shit out tomorrow.

 

[DocCeaser]

If you want, I can test shit out tomorrow.

It's up to you. I'm not really stressing myself out over it.

 

[Saitsu]

Well this shit is kind of important to know. But even if they aren't punishable, they're definitely minus.

 

[AssassiN]

Pako already said that the frame data of attacks with multiple hits are wrong and will be fixed soon.
With Nightwing that is 113, F213, Staff Spin(is actually around -3 on block), Staff Spin MB, Flipkick MB and Staff Ground Spark MB.

I tested out the Flipkick MB and it's safe, not even Superman's super can punish it.
Used the reversal system to figure out that Flipkick MB is on block and it's like -1 or -2.
Staff Spin MB and Ground Spark MB are def advantage on block, the Staff Spin MB has more advantage than Ground Spark MB.

I figured out something to add to the vortex, his U3(overhead) and U3D3(fake overhead into low).
U3 is +10 on block while U3D3 is +9 on block, can't be tech rolled and sets them up for the same situation whether or not you knock them down.
On block the U3D3 has more pushback so his 1, 2 and F2 won't reach. While with the U3 those will reach however the 11 and F21 will whiff, the good news is that even if the opponent isn't blocking you'll still be able to combo of the first hit.

Dunno if you guys know this, but in the corner you can combo of a Staff Spin MB with a quick D1 + Staff Spin.

 

[xisvicious]

Here is some nightwing combos that allow you to zone your opponent with corner pressure after

 

[Endeavor]

Alright thanks Saitsu for the help definitely going to try this. I have been hearing a lot about his vortex, what does the correct look like or rather what is it suppose to look like a vid of that would be very helpful if someone doesn't mind making one.

 

[NightwingDayZero]

I'm struggling with hit confirming. As a result I'm doing a lot of unsafe stuff.

Anyone got some escrima block strings/frame traps that can be used to open people up? I'd like to maintain an offense against a blocking opponent without opening myself up for big punishes.

 

[7r17r1]

Flying Garison can hit cross up on wake up
because f*ck you

It's not even that hard to do

We need a wake up / okizeme thread for that kind of thing

 

[Saitsu]

I'm struggling with hit confirming. As a result I'm doing a lot of unsafe stuff.

Anyone got some escrima block strings/frame traps that can be used to open people up? I'd like to maintain an offense against a blocking opponent without opening myself up for big punishes.

Yeah, Nightwing does not really have any hitconfirms. Best you can really do is get by on MB Flip Kicks or Stance Switching into MB Ground Blast as both are (apparently) safe on block and obviously lead to huge combos you can confirm on hit.

 

[AssassiN]

Yeah, Nightwing does not really have any hitconfirms. Best you can really do is get by on MB Flip Kicks or Stance Switching into MB Ground Blast as both are (apparently) safe on block and obviously lead to huge combos you can confirm on hit.

Be careful with just stance switching.
So far I've only found one string where there isn't a framehole: 112.
112~4~Staff Spin is guaranteed chip, while 112~4~Ground Spark has a tiny framehole. If they try jumping out they'll get hit by the spark(I think MB whiffs though), but they will be able to roll away from you.

 

[Saitsu]

Obviously it's something you don't or should not use that often. I was just saying that MB Ground Blast essentially hitconfirms. And besides, it's also one of the few ways Nightwing forces players to watch their toes. It's just one of those things you throw out once so it's always in the opponent's head.

 

[shintarru]

What are you guys using your meter on? I mostly use MB Ground Blast since its great to hitconfirm and punish long range things and pushblock because Nightwing is lacking a get off me move.

 

[Saitsu]

MB Ground Blast and Pushblock when the matchup allows my staffwork. Occasionally MB Flip Kick of course.

When I'm not able to use Staff as much, more liberal usage of pushblock, MBDC and MB Flip Kick.