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"The Regime" vs "The Insurgency", which side are YOU on?

Which side are you on?

  • I fight for Batman, I Am The Insurgency!

    Votes: 62 64.6%

  • I fight for Superman, I Am The Regime!

    Votes: 34 35.4%
  • Total voters
    96
Critical-Limit

Critical-Limit

Apprentice
Compbros said:
No, but there are shifts and everytime they kill the guards they could put their own people in. In "Death of the Family" Joker's men pay off two guards to allow him to go in and bust some people out. Then they kill the guards anyway.

Gotham is so damn corrupt it's not even funny, like half the police force is corrupt cops in one way or another.
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Right so in gotham's world, every polic officer is corruptable. not a single one outside of say maybe Gordon can be trusted.

I'm not saying Gotham isn't corrupt as hell. It just makes absolutely no sense that no matter WHO you put up to keep joker locked up. They'll cave in to corruption.

Otherwise if it's money, why doesn't Batman with is billions pay big checks to those that watch over big time criminals in prison? It's because the comics would be come boring as fuah, because every villain batman owns, would never get the hell out to make a re-appearance. It's just a plothole that just makes no sense and is only there to serve the purpose of being able to bring back villains time and time again.


Don't get me wrong, Even cops in REAL LIFE are pretty corrupt. not saying all of them. I'm confident most of them mean well. But ever since the invention of the smartphone. more and more police bruatlities and police flaunting their power show up on the web.

But letting criminals go? telling me no cameras ect ect wouldn't catch the officer on duty/schedule and easily see/know who let them in? Even if they didn't kill them anyways, the police department would instantly know who let them out and the money they got would be useless.

I mean... become a cop and try and let some bad gangsters in to save their gangster buddies and NOT get caught doing it. I'd like to see that.


I just think it's a plothole, because realistically you can't just have NO ANSWERS to keeping people locked up better.
 
Critical-Limit

Critical-Limit

Apprentice
trufenix said:
That's the thing though, Batman DOESN'T save all lives and he doesn't care about all villains. He has never batted an eyelash at the scores of criminals in the city who have killed each other in the name of the Penguin or Black Mask or any of those guys. He let Dr. Strange kill himself TWICE. He's let Riddler and Scarecrow mentally traumatize themselves with their own designs, and apparently whenever Hush comes to town, the bad guys in Gotham are just allowed to do WHATEVER to each other and Batman will just check in later to clean it up.

The only bad guy who seems to have Bat-amnesty is Joker and that is preposterous.
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lol i'll have to take your word for a couple of those. as in he stood there and wanted to make no effort to save some people. letting someoen traumatize themselves isn't the same as letting them die.

With as much gang violence as there is in Gotham, he can't save them all. so in-ability to get to all of them isn't letting them die. But standing NEXT to someone bleeding out when you got bandages. is different than being at one place trying to do some good while at the exact same moment someone else is doing a crime elsewhere. That's why we have multiple cops, not just 1. And we don't blame cops who weren't on the scene for letting some thugs beat eachother up and coming in and "cleaning up the mess later"


I wish I could see a coupel of your examples and see what "arc" or string of storytelling it came from. but I'll bow out for now.


I only wanted to really make the point that Freedom > superman's rule.
 
Vilén

Vilén

too smart to play MKX
Compbros said:
I live in Detroit, my house has been broken into before, two of my brothers have been robbed at gun point, rarely a night goes by where I don't hear police or ambulance sirens flying by. You think the people in a city like this wouldn't gladly give up some liberties to know they can go to work everyday without fear of this nonsense? Just think of ALL the horrible things that have happened in just the US in the past few years, you think people wouldn't accept someone that they KNOW can prevent all this? You say people will fight back but there's just as many people that will fight for.
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Let me end this line of thought right here:

"He who sacrifices liberty for security deserves and will receive neither."
 
BlackCyborg

BlackCyborg

I am Arkham
Compbros said:
Already addressed the first paragraph.


BWAHAHAHA, that's such a stupid damn thought process that I couldn't even fucking believe it when I read it in the comics. "Something worse" than Joker? Are you fucking serious? There's nothing even CLOSE to Joker in Gotham, I simply refuse to accept this argument. No offense and no biased but that is one of the stupidest things I've heard in comics on why a Hero won't put down villains. Didn't Jason say something along the lines of "I'm not talking Two-Face, just Joker. Do you really believe that if you couldn't stop at Joker?". Does he? Does he believe that if he kills Joker he's just gonna become this monster that kills anyone that carries a gun against him? Wonder Woman killed someone but she doesn't kill indiscriminately. Again, weak reasoning on Batman's part.

Yes, there are reasons but they're stupid, soooooo stupid. His fanbase is not stupid but those two reasons are just dumb. By the way, if the villains knew he killed Joker, doesn't it stand to reason they'd think twice about doing their next crime?
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Don't get me wrong, i'm not saying I agree with all of it. I just see his reasoning, and can understand, as well as relate. As we all probably can in some way or fashion, when it comes to things and choices in life. When you lie to somone, it gets easier and easier the more you do it. If you steal, it gets easier and easier after each time. If you cheat on someone, it gets easier and easier after the first time. Basically, point being, everyone has faced temptations. Everyone has been faced with their own morals and "rules", and we've all probably broken some of them. After breaking said moral or rules, it was probably easier to break them again after the first time, than it was to break them for the first time. Especially if we got away with it.

So I can understand Batman's reasoning, on the whole "if I kill once, I could kill again" logic. Once he breaks his rule, he can't have the whole "i've never killed anyone" strengthening his morality in his choices. Because he already ruined his perfect record so to speak. It's as if you win 10 games in a row, undefeated, that first loss is gonna effect you much moreso than the 2nd or 3rd. It's an odd analogy, but i'm trying to relate it to normal circumstances.

As for him caring if someone else kills the Joker? Well, that just depends. He doesn't want to take part in it, but I doubt he'd honestly be bothered if Joker got killed by some random thug. But then you dive into the psychology of the characters. Does Batman need Joker like Joker needs Batman? Depends what stories you read...some depict Batman as needing to be Batman, and if the criminals weren't there anymore, he'd lack any sort of purpose in life. Bruce Wayne to him is the mask. Other stories make it seem as if he truly does just want to stop having to be Batman.

So yeah, you can say it's stupid. But, to me, it's what makes it interesting. That it's not so cut and dry. Batman wants this person locked up or dead, any means neccessary. That, to me, is cliche and boring. I like the morality, psychological, and the choices he has to struggle with. Makes for better writing and a more encompassing story.

But, we all have our different opinions on what we like, and what we find logical. Some people are ok with criminals being sentenced to death, some people believe they should get life in prison. That's something we face in our own reality.
 
Law Hero

Law Hero

There is a head on a pole behind you
Vilén said:
Let me end this line of thought right here:

"He who sacrifices liberty for security deserves and will receive neither."
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There's a difference between making some sacrifices for safety, and giving up all liberties.

No one cries about the fact that they can't legally manufacture and sell mustard gas and condemns it a "forfeit of our liberties." If you have to make some sacrifices to ensure that you and your family are safe, then so be it. Now, there's obviously a line that needs to not be crossed, but at certain times and at certain places, harsh rules need to be enforced for the greater good.
 
Compbros

Compbros

Man of Tomorrow
Critical-Limit said:
-snip-
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Let's say Gordan can trust......25 people in the force 100% and I'm reaaaaally stretching that number. You send half to Arkham to police the Supercriminals of Gotham 24/7 with various shifts and it still wouldn't be enough. Send all 25 in Arkham and you get corrupt people letting them go to begin with and being paid off. Also, some of these cops become "corrupt" to help pay for a loved ones surgery or what have you, there is hardly an "incorruptible" person in the World.


It makes sense at some points but most of the time it's idiotic.


Vilén said:
Let me end this line of thought right here:

"He who sacrifices liberty for security deserves and will receive neither."
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Is there a quote about "He who fights for the liberty to allow super criminals to escape their confines and kill hundreds over and over again has a weird mindset"?

I get it, I get it all, but that's an outdated line of thinking in a world where one man killed millions of people, practically by himself, and this same man simply being sent to an Asylum where's he's escaped innumerable times. I, and people, would never submit to just some regular person that's promising this in exchange for complete rule but Superman backed by a Warrior Princess with great powers, a Universal Police Officer and a man who was literally given the power of Gods ? People will fight for a World ruled by these people for no more criminals. Superman has never done anything outside the best interest for the people and people believe in that. If he's saying "war is over, peace is now in effect" then people will follow this man and gladly accept it.
 
Law Hero

Law Hero

There is a head on a pole behind you
Compbros said:
Superman has never done anything outside the best interest for the people and people believe in that. If he's saying "war is over, peace is now in effect" then people will follow this man and gladly accept it.
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I completely agree with this. These Superheroes, not just Superman, have been putting their lives on the line for the better part of...what, 100 years now? There's not a soul alive that doubts they fight for everyone and to ensure peace and safety. If the entire Justice League puts its foot down and says, "There will be no military jets flying around anymore" then you stop that shit.

Obviously we don't know the whole plot of the story, but as it stands, super intervention to help people who can't help themselves is a good thing. If you're not doing anything wrong, then you have nothing to lose by complying. Now if Superman starts flying around punching holes in people's chests for farting in an elevator, then yeah, there's a point where it needs to stop; however, as it stands, only good can come from some otherworldy help.
 
Compbros

Compbros

Man of Tomorrow
BlackCyborg said:
When you lie to somone, it gets easier and easier the more you do it. If you steal, it gets easier and easier after each time. If you cheat on someone, it gets easier and easier after the first time. Basically, point being, everyone has faced temptations. Everyone has been faced with their own morals and "rules", and we've all probably broken some of them. After breaking said moral or rules, it was probably easier to break them again after the first time, than it was to break them for the first time. Especially if we got away with it.
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People that lie don't just become compelled to lie and they can still be torn up by lying, same with lying or cheating. They don't just start lying, cheating or stealing at every turn and they may never do these things again. Some people find it easier/can't stop but Batman is a man with a lot of mental resolve, I honestly don't believe he'd just stop or take the "easy" way out with every other bit of scum he comes across.


So I can understand Batman's reasoning, on the whole "if I kill once, I could kill again" logic. Once he breaks his rule, he can't have the whole "i've never killed anyone" strengthening his morality in his choices. Because he already ruined his perfect record so to speak. It's as if you win 10 games in a row, undefeated, that first loss is gonna effect you much moreso than the 2nd or 3rd. It's an odd analogy, but i'm trying to relate it to normal circumstances.
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It's understandable, I just don't agree. Is "I've never killed anyone" the only thing driving him to know if he's "right or wrong in this choice"? Again, I don't agree. He knows what's what, he's done this for years and years and has done some questionable things but always with the best interest at heart, killing Joker would just be another one.

As for him caring if someone else kills the Joker? Well, that just depends. He doesn't want to take part in it, but I doubt he'd honestly be bothered if Joker got killed by some random thug. But then you dive into the psychology of the characters. Does Batman need Joker like Joker needs Batman? Depends what stories you read...some depict Batman as needing to be Batman, and if the criminals weren't there anymore, he'd lack any sort of purpose in life. Bruce Wayne to him is the mask. Other stories make it seem as if he truly does just want to stop having to be Batman.
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I swear, if Joker were gunned down on the street that Batman would cry and probably look for the person that did it and bring them to justice. Jokes aside though, he would probably try to prevent it. Someone pointed out that Nightwing almost killed Joker and Bruce saved him with CPR, now this could just be seen as "Batman doesn't want this to be on Dick's head or to corrupt him" or something but the deed was done, Joker was dead and Bruce simply saved him to......save Dick? I can't accept that, the man was dead and Dick still has to live with the fact that he "killed" Joker and he has it in him to do this heinous act while Joker still lives on to kill others.

All heroes should strive to not want to be heroes. Meaning they should hope for a World where they're not needed. If Bruce "needs" Batman then he's not a hero, he's a man with an addiction that needs his fix.


So yeah, you can say it's stupid. But, to me, it's what makes it interesting. That it's not so cut and dry. Batman wants this person locked up or dead, any means neccessary. That, to me, is cliche and boring. I like the morality, psychological, and the choices he has to struggle with. Makes for better writing and a more encompassing story.
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Okay, I'm not trying to knock your opinion here but "I won't kill Joker because someone worst might show up" is stupid, I can't see it as anything else. He's basically saying "if I was ensured that there would be nothing worse after Joker then I'd kill him, no problem", that's stupid. It's not intriguing or engaging, it's just dumb to me. Again, that's just me, not knocking you.
 
STB Sgt Reed

STB Sgt Reed

Online Warrior
I have a character on each side that I'm looking to main.

But idea wise, I'm on batman's side. Freedom over dictatorship.
 
Reedoms

Reedoms

Champion
STB Sgt Reed said:
Not his job to kill him.

He takes him to the authorities... their job to give him the lethal injection.
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The one time they were going to, Batman saved him because he was wrongly accused. After the millions of murders, he got off on a technicality because of Batman.
 
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