Dealing With the Runaway Problem, and Growing Our Sport

[EGP Wonder_Chef]

You also dont see huge payouts and major sponsors for the FGC controlling their actions. This has only been happening recently, Triforce has been talking about it and if you watch the Capcom streams youll catch top players like fchamp apologizing or correcting people whom he has on streams for saying something out of place trying to get rid of the publicity.

The Tyrant match at SCR was hype as hell, of course. Watching two nemesis who hate each other (drama) can also bring hype. Watching Pig pop off because no one else can get top 8 with Kenshi is hype. You dont have to have negative drama to bring hype but it IS exciting nonetheless. You can never refute that.

Sure there are occasions where it can be exciting, but there are at least as many occasions where it can drive people or sponsors away.

I mean say I was a company that wanted to sponsor a few fighting game players, so I go out and scout on forums to check the scene out. If all I see is drama, then there's no way that I am going to sponsor MK players. A sponsored player has to completely represent the company that sponsors them, which requires a lot of maturity, and a community full of drama definitely doesn't imply that there are a lot of mature players.

Now say I'm a TO that might want to run MK at my event. If I see tons of drama in the community, I would definitely NOT run MK. When drama is high, emotions cause people to steal stuff, get into arguments,complain to the TO about small things, create an atmosphere at the venue that could bug people from other games etc.

Now say I'm a casual video game player who really wants to get into a fighting game. Say I go to SRK and see all of these top players for Capcom games working together on videos, podcasts, streams, etc. That really makes me want to reach that level so that I can be a part of that. But then I go to MK forums and see all of the top players just fucking hating on eachother and arguing. As someone just starting to get into a scene, that would scare the shit out of me. Fighting games are intimidating enough without the fear that top players will trash talk you.




Now compare that to the positives of "ooh, pig and reo are arguing and they'll both be at this major that I was planning to watch anyway!" for example.



Drama only holds the community back.

 

[Dizzy]

Personally, I came here for the information relevant to actual gameplay. Not going to lie, a lot of the match-up discussion is a clusterfuck and I normally don't bother. But the tidbits of information and were worth browsing.

The thing that filled in the gap and kept me (and I think alot of others) frequenting TYM was the funny threads. Like "Who is the Whiteist person in the community" and PL won. There was some comedic gold in these threads that I don't think was "trolling" or offended anyone (for the most part). When the m2dave-esque poll threads just that are made for laughs get closed it makes me sad

Nowadays though, there is very little of either.

All I see now is people arguing about whose powers are cooler in DC and who they demand be in Injustice or they won't buy it. I personally don't find much interesting to read on the forum nowadays because there isn't anything either funny or insightful being posted. 90% of these Injustice posts are absolute crap that is borderline painful to read so I normally don't bother reading them. (I may be the minority here, as I don't care for speculation threads for any game)

 

[DeathAndHealing]

Drama is whats holding this thread together.

 

[GGA Saucy Jack]

I totally see where dizzy is coming from. Maybe this can be an opportunity for TYM to grow. The reality is that as this site grows, more and more opinions will be in the mix. And thats not a bad thing. As a group we need to find the happy medium for entertainment and tactics. I dont see any reason why we cant. This discussion being three pages long and still civil is a positive sign.

 

[Obs_SmSwag]

Man shut up. This post is so whack

LOL

Also, Pig Of The Hut waltzed in here, came on everybody's tits and left. Best thread i've read in over a week.

 

[Temjiin]

*Sees MK referred to as a sport*

*Sees some of the thread contributors*

*Types 'Athletes' into Google images*

*Speechless*

 

[BenGmanUk]

For a site that's dedicated to a competitive fighting game dominated by guys with egos, this site relatively little drama these days. For the most part, all I see is people getting excited about Injustice, sharing their thoughts, speculating about various stuff and generally enjoying themselves.

Most of the 'top players' never really shared anything useful anyway and most of the guides and tech have been produced by the thinkers of the scene rather than the top tournament players. Those that can, do. Those that can't, teach etc.

 

[Crathen]

The way i see it is: where did some of the top players actually grow? I'll tell ya: TYM. If it wasn't for Somberness you guys wouldn't have frame data , if it wasn't for Doctrine Dark posting on TYM techs and combos many wouldn't know about them , Tony-T for Cyrax resets and more , we've all started somewhere , i recall 16 bit being on gamefaqs previously when he wasn't considered a top player.

Now may i ask why you ( top players ) are acting like "yo TYM is boring , let's go away" ? truth is you guys lurk and still keep updated on strategies / whatever , when injustice comes out , you WILL be checking here for tech and discussion because you can't know everything , i remember 16bit talking about how lame is keeping the techs and discussions for themselves a while ago on TKP. How did that change?

I'm not new to this , the Tekken scene in our country has been going through a similar time.
Top players will never really leave the scene , because duh it's this game they're considered top , if they go on SRK and post Hey i'm a top mk player , nobody would give a shit.

So if they don't want the scene / online site where people talk and organize to grow ( TYM ) to slowly forget about them , they will still post. Remember that without people that go to tourneys top players mean NOTHING , previous MK9 and TYM , how many players were entering Mk tournaments?Few. Do top players want those numbers back? I'll leave that for you guys.

That said i respect @Pigofthehut opinion , but seriously do all of the top players let the words like "just bf2 brah" "kabal is OP" and so on get in your head EVEN if said by friends or other top players? Then you maybe want to try ignore those things and just play the game.

Hype /= drama btw , and i do think that every FG scene needs a part of hype and a part of good technical discussions , drama is only good for LULZ and if it happens then be it but don't focus on that.

Oh and i loved M2daves' troll threads.

 

[Faded Dreams V]

The thing that filled in the gap and kept me (and I think alot of others) frequenting TYM was the funny threads. Like "Who is the Whiteist person in the community" and PL won. There was some comedic gold in these threads that I don't think was "trolling" or offended anyone (for the most part). When the m2dave-esque poll threads just that are made for laughs get closed it makes me sad

I was going to type this.

Though I still frequent the site for Injustice news.

*Sees MK referred to as a sport*

*Sees some of the thread contributors*

*Types 'Athletes' into Google images*

*Speechless*

It's Olympic-worthy.

 

[Qwark28]

all ima say

you pros picked a bad time to leave, with injustice so close there WILL be a new wave of pros and depending on how they act, ppl will view you oldies differently.

 

[NRF CharlieMurphy]

The whole drama thing is nothing new. Sure, it is worse at some particular times but I am not surprised by it. I know how frustrating it is to get into arguments over MU's, tech, etc... but I really do think that it keeps the game developing so long as it does not become derogatory or hateful. It seems to me that most of the top players who have left have done so mostly because they have gotten tired of arguing, which is fine. I just don't know how they expect people to level up if they cannot hash it out with the best in the game. I will never leave TYM, even if I do become an elite player. The forums have helped me level up and always provide me with fun.

This is well said.

I coudln't agree more, no matter how frustrated you get... there is always a right and wrong way to handle it. Being jaded is one way, showing and trying to create understanding is another. Super fine line here.

It sucks because there is basically the offline group.... and the online group at this point (with the online group dying when injustice drops). I want to pick the offline groups brain... because you guys play this game at a level that is high.... and because you can readily play where your reactions are rewarded.

I get it... but man it sucks.

 

[Smoke_Of_Finland]

The good thing about TYM is that people actually share tech when it comes to MK games themselves. I wish people would just stop obsessing about tier lists and match-up charts, play the game and share tech and discuss the actual gameplay instead of getting their jimmies rustled when someone says a match-up is a 6-4 instead of 7-3. I recently joined Tekken Zaibatsu and besides max dmg combos and some oki setups, people are clearly hogging a shitload of tech to themselves, where as TYM is extremely beginner friendly and open. I also enjoy the occasional troll threads/posts here at TYM. All of the "I am quitting because my main character sucks and this game is unfair" threads should just be removed though.

 

[BenGmanUk]

The good thing about TYM is that people actually share tech when it comes to MK games themselves. I wish people would just stop obsessing about tier lists and match-up charts, play the game and share tech and discuss the actual gameplay instead of getting their jimmies rustled when someone says a match-up is a 6-4 instead of 7-3. I recently joined Tekken Zaibatsu and besides max dmg combos and some oki setups, people are clearly hogging a shitload of tech to themselves, where as TYM is extremely beginner friendly and open. I also enjoy the occasional troll threads/posts here at TYM. All of the "I am quitting because my main character sucks and this game is unfair" threads should just be removed though.

I'm pretty sure TZ is a large reason why TT2, as good as it is, has a very small following. Getting a simple answer over on that site was frustrating. Old school mentality perhaps but they really shot themselves in the foot for growing their scene in my opinion.

TYM doesn't have that problem it seems and people here are always willing to help, which is cool, very cool.

 

[coolwhip]

all ima say

you pros picked a bad time to leave, with injustice so close there WILL be a new wave of pros and depending on how they act, ppl will view you oldies differently.

Meh, they'll all be back come Injustice. I've seen too many retirements/leaving TYM forever/etc... threads that lasted a month tops. As far as a new wave of pros goes, they'll act just about the same way if you give them enough time (and I don't even mean that in a negative sense). Come on, the tournament scene is about who's the best at a video game, of course there will be egos involved. And once egos are involved, arguments begin, and everything will start looking similar from there. Once again, I'm not even using "ego" in a negative sense. We all have one. It's just reality.

 

[Pig Of The Hut]

Crathen

Saying the whole "kabal OP" "bf2 bro" etc type stuff is just old and most of the time pointless

People are more willing to moan n cry about what they can't defeat instead of leveling /searching for an answer to do so.

 

[Pig Of The Hut]

all ima say

you pros picked a bad time to leave, with injustice so close there WILL be a new wave of pros and depending on how they act, ppl will view you oldies differently.

I'm pretty sure when Justin Wong, chris g and PL left their respective forums someone said this very same thing

How'd that turn out?

 

[Pig Of The Hut]

The good thing about TYM is that people actually share tech when it comes to MK games themselves. I wish people would just stop obsessing about tier lists and match-up charts, play the game and share tech and discuss the actual gameplay instead of getting their jimmies rustled when someone says a match-up is a 6-4 instead of 7-3. I recently joined Tekken Zaibatsu and besides max dmg combos and some oki setups, people are clearly hogging a shitload of tech to themselves, where as TYM is extremely beginner friendly and open. I also enjoy the occasional troll threads/posts here at TYM. All of the "I am quitting because my main character sucks and this game is unfair" threads should just be removed though.

^^ yea those people need to grow up or quit

Recently I've read people post/txt or say "IF INJUSTICE DOESN'T HAVE THIS /FIX THIS I WON'T BUY IT and WILL HOPE IT FAILS"

#dumb

 

[Qwark28]

I'm pretty sure when Justin Wong, chris g and PL left their respective forums someone said this very same thing

How'd that turn out?

except they played sequels

this is a brand new game and the communities are very different.

GL with the 4-5 pros who quit maining the whole cast at a tournmanet lvl.

there WILL be new pros, anyone who says different is obviously against the community

 

[Pig Of The Hut]

except they played sequels

this is a brand new game and the communities are very different.

GL with the 4-5 pros who quit maining the whole cast at a tournmanet lvl.

there WILL be new pros, anyone who says different is obviously against the community

There will be new ones because thats just how it goes but when you're good at FGs, like really good, you just end up being good at whatever you go 100% in

Just like chris g, wong did to keep my example the absolutely same. Chris g has more top 8s in MK than most every day players and Wong made more money in mk than possibly 95% of community

 

[Treadmill]

I'll say this. Back when Mk9 was coming out I was on trmk, as I wasnt into competitively playing. Tym just feels like trmk 2011 right now. Wether that's because a lot of the top guys are MIA or its just a wave of new members I don't know. But all the "he's not left handed" "why is his cape that color" "seriously, joker can't beat lex" "how can aquaman win on land" stuff is echoing how trmk was back then. I see little talk about mechanics etc. They are there for sure but I feel with reo, pig, Jr., maxter, 16 bit, dizzy, tom etc being ghosts we are missing a lot.

 

[G4S MinotaurLord]

I don't understand the non-pro groupthink mentality that if top players stop posting, they will not be able to level up their characters. The truth is, there is a great deal of information on this site for every character because we have passionate players representing those characters and already pushing them to their limits. If you have a question about <insert character here>, there's probably already been a thread addressing it. We have very in-depth character guides and frame data. We have lists of the largest practical BnB's for every character for every situation. We have hours upon hours of tournament footage of the best players doing their thing. We have threads for risk/reward tech (aka mindgames). We have a fairly stabilized tier list. Of course match-up threads will not always agree because players will always play characters differently from each other and have their own personal good/bad matchups.

In this way, the community is already largely successful. If someone picked up MK today and really read through the forums, they would have more info than they would probably know what to do with. That's the groundwork for leveling up. However, real leveling up comes from grinding out matches and playing people. If you think that the only thing holding you back is that some OTHER (pro) player is hiding back super secret broken tech from you, or hasn't found it yet (and you log on with the anticipation of them graciously revealing it to you), you're out of your fucking mind. The truth is, anyone can take the tools that are already layed out here and utilize them to win a tournament if they train hard with friends and really try to better themselves as a player.

So what's the point to all of this? It's that when we say things like "REO and CDJR have left the community", or whatever, what are you really commenting on? The great majority of pro players on this site have already given us more than our fair share of information and useful posts. Reo has given us tons of videos and guides for characters he doesn't even play that still hold value today. Brady has left us with a wealth of sub-zero knowledge that's still here. If you want to use this site as a means to better understand MK or level up, the pros "haven't gone anywhere", so to speak. If you have questions, forum mods can and do direct you to the appropriate answer if it's been discussed before (as many things have that can have concrete answers). If you want to use this site for trolling, random conversation, comedy, or even drama, you can (and often do) do that too, and that's fine; but the top players don't owe it to you to participate in that.

The next time you ask yourself "why hasn't pro player X posted to TYM, and does this mean it is dead?", consider: what do you want them to post? Do you want pressing character questions to be answered? We have plenty of people who are competent and can do that (and it's up to you to figure out whose opinion you feel is valid and who you don't want to listen to), and plenty of forum to scroll through to find your answer. Do you want to engage them in troll conversation to which they have every right to ignore (because you're wasting their time)? Do you simply want other people to supply you with an infinite amount of new tech and secrets? There's plenty of that, but if you want more you should go find it yourself (or admit that we actually HAVE uncovered a lot about this game already).

tl;dr: pros "not posting" anymore doesn't mean you can't get better. It also doesn't mean you have to stop having fun on this site.

 

[SPLED0R]

snip

most of the "new" top players are going to be mvc and sf heads like filipino champ, dieminion, etc. and other game tourney goers pros... dont cry when most of the new dominating pros in tournaments dont even care about tym.... injustice is not only about of this community or the mk community any more.... ALL gaming communities are looking into it and i see... it will be fortunate if any of tym current top players can stand up and compete with those legends when injustice comes out.... its time for a new era and the standard FGC regulation to hit this place....

 

[NB Semi Evil Ryu]

This site will be thriving again in two months, both with returning players AND ones that will be new to TYM. I know for a fact that there are a lot of players who are/were on here that are just waiting for Injustice, at this point. Myself included. The 24-hour GGA event that I was just at was my final MK 9 action for the next several months. Injustice is close and I've got TONS of games that I need to play through before it comes out.

Hell, I'm just NOW getting around to Borderlands 2.

 

[TakeAChance]

Alright,

To catch people up. Lets give everyone a run down.

This is not the first time the "Community" has been blamed for shit that pro players have done. Most of the times when pro players get butt hurt, their response is that somehow or another the community made it happen. Fuck that.

I wrote about it before and i will write about it again. That is moronic.

Here is a rundown currently at where I believe the top players are but hurt and why they are not posting on this site. Now, I like to keep it real, and I hate this pre-madona bullshit right now. Love me or hate me, I always air my shit to those invovled. If I get blown up, who fucking cares, at least I didn't leach around and talk shit around someones back.

Here are the reasons to the best of my knowledge as to why some of the top players are no longer posting here:

Reo - Issue with mods. I believe the straw that broke the camels back was when he trolled Storms about him being at a tournament to which he was not.

Pig - Butthurt because everyone was saying his skill wasn't skill and it was the character winning for him. Bullshit pure and simple, even if Kenshi WAS BRAINDEAD, don't hate on a guy because he wins with him...that opens the door for other moronic comments. Frankly I can understand if he was getting sick of this attitude.

16 Bit - Had a rough couple weeks on TYM. Got exposed for trying to rig brackets, took a hiatus, came back, then left again when other pros started to leave as well.

Tom Brady - But hurt over the new ranking system. Believes it puts his legacy in jeopardy when he is without a doubt probably THE MOST KNOWN Mk player.

The rest I have no credible information on. Most likely left when the rest did.

The fact of the matter is this: It's not the communites fault.

There was a big upheaval about the legitimacy of some tournaments. Those issues got exposed, some good feedback was taken and some proactive TO's like Phil took those into account and vowed to improve. That is what collective and constructive dialogue produces.

The problem is, some pro players are not interested in what other people have to say outside of their cliques. Some are more receptive than others, others are too intimidated about looking bad or foolish because they have not discovered it.

You say that other people are not open to your tech? When was the last time a Pro other than Foxy Grampa released tech to the public? Reo did the Rain videos, but Foxy did already cover most of it. (PS, I love Reo, this is not a jab). Under the Mayo has been the most active Kenshi tech giver. Most of the "tech" for the pro's main characters are being revealed by other respected members of the community who cannot travel to tournaments to showcase it.

The problem is, whenever an unknown does bring up something, most of the time they are squashed because they are conceived as "irrelevant".

So please do not give me the BS that is "The community is not receptive of what we have to say". You all have your fans. You know you do. Just don't expect everyone to kiss your feet and ass. At least not the sheep. We all respect your contributions, but I don't think most of us are going to jump because you tell us too.

Honestly, ever since the great "exile" TYM has been mostly clear of drama. I for one am not interested in any more prop threads, alternate accounts, rigging epidemics, etc etc etc.

If you all want to come back and LEAD the community, and show the community what it means to have productive dialogue and discussions, then LEAD THEM.

Don't expect them to just do. SHOW them how professionals carry on. If we see pros bickering back and forth and being bitches about stupid shit, the community is going to call out the stupid shit and bitch about it to you.

LEAD us with good moral behavior, and people will respond with good moral behavior in kind. If they don't it makes it easier to sift through the bullshit and create more black and white cases of good and bad behavior.

~TaC

 

[Qwark28]

I'll say this. Back when Mk9 was coming out I was on trmk, as I wasnt into competitively playing. Tym just feels like trmk 2011 right now. Wether that's because a lot of the top guys are MIA or its just a wave of new members I don't know. But all the "he's not left handed" "why is his cape that color" "seriously, joker can't beat lex" "how can aquaman win on land" stuff is echoing how trmk was back then. I see little talk about mechanics etc. They are there for sure but I feel with reo, pig, Jr., maxter, 16 bit, dizzy, tom etc being ghosts we are missing a lot.

aquaman on land lmao