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Match-up Discussion My Shang Tsung MU Chart

kanaida

Kanaida (MK9 Dashboard for android)
I agree about johnny. He used to give me trouble until I just learned to never be in the path of his attacks. I poke and dip out of there and punish his misses now. He really doesn't stand a chance vs the close upper fireball.
Yes for the ground tele. But the air one is easier to feel out with the punch, in case u gotta move fast. Also high air tele is punishable with any up skull into combos. Found out by accident last night.

As for Freddy, if he's really good with specials its damn hard to win at full screen away. Luckily most don't have the timing.
 

Peckapowa

Champion
Yes for the ground tele. But the air one is easier to feel out with the punch, in case u gotta move fast. Also high air tele is punishable with any up skull into combos. Found out by accident last night.

As for Freddy, if he's really good with specials its damn hard to win at full screen away. Luckily most don't have the timing.
shang cant beat freddy fullscreen
 

kanaida

Kanaida (MK9 Dashboard for android)
Agreed. Too many specials, unless its a tag match. Then you can ex in a partner and move up. At least for them moment, I'll find a way out eventually. Just really don't fight too many freddys that can keep up that much pressure. I've seen 2.
 

GamerBlake90

Blue Blurs for Life!
This is exactly what I said. However, I have not played nearly enough top-notch Shang Tsung users to fully understand this match-up. I don't think anyone has, really; there are few Shang players. One of my biggest pet peeves is that there are all these good characters that just don't get the representation they rightfully deserve...I guess people get discouraged by learning curves.



As I stated above, I don't have any experience to brag about in the match-up, but from what I am seeing...

For one, Sonya can't outzone Shang Tsung. It's the 8% from her projectile versus a jungle of skulls from Shang, and if one skull touches you, you are eating over 30% unbreakable damage PLUS a Soul Steal and then you have a few seconds of a Sonya mirror to worry about with a Damage Boost applied to the impostor, or he can put you back at zoning range and then you gotta work your way through the storm of skulls once again.

Yes, I know the Soul Steal isn't all it's cracked up to be, but c'mon...given the kind of character Sonya is, why would you pass up a few seconds to use her when she can do greater damage? You don't want a few moments of d4 - Military Stance, EX Cartwheel, or instant-air divekick? :D

Back to the skulls. Even whiffing d4 just to use it as a tool to approach Shang is not what I would encourage. You are risking the skulls again, or even a well-timed Soul Steal and you have the above scenario to worry about. I would instead use the threat of her shoulder charge from the Military Stance to perhaps unnerve the sorcerer.

Worse yet, if you get caught in the corner with Shang in control, put down the controller...because you've just lost. In the few times I've been caught in the corner, I could not get out at all, and you should be able to vouch for this, Cowboy. Once you end a corner combo with an overhead skull, you only have to block and watch what I do: if I try to escape with EX Cartwheel, you can block and take back pressure control; if you see me block the skull, you get free f4 - skull pressure. And an attempt to jump out? Shang Tsung's anti-crossover d1 would like to say hello. Now I realize Sonya has a strong corner game of her own, but...well, read on.

With this kind of match-up, Sonya is forced to remove her Sonic Rings from her game and take it up-close and personal with Shang, and like with Cage it becomes a session of 50/50 kombat, and I do not just mean mix-ups. Both characters have armored moves that they each have to watch for...Sonya's EX Cartwheel and Shang's EX Soul Steal, both of which are safe on block and lead to high reward if they hit. I don't want to give you about ten seconds full of an empowered Sonya and you don't want to give me a full combo that ends with a Stance mix-up. In a battle of armored moves, the one that was activated second will beat out the first.

It should be noted, though, that Shang's Wake-Up game isn't very reliable...Tom would agree with this. If you knock him down, Sonya is in business. So hope you get a correct guess from her mix-ups.

Now like I've said, this isn't a match-up I run into often...I still need to get in those consistent practice sessions with you like I resolved to do. But until then, I am not convinced that Sonya has any overwhelming advantage in this match-up and will therefore stick to the notion that it is 5-5.
WoundCowboy

Completely disregard the bolded part...as of late, I'm beginning to see how much of an advantage Sonya does have against Shang, after all.
 

Death

Warrior
As a mu police officer I have to call out this mu chart as serious downplaying. 20 shangs mus=dis adv and even while the good mus are 6-4 vs Kano and losing to jade..... Lbsh Shang rushdown is better than cages. Has good zoning and good armor.

I think it's time for the REAL Shang chart
 

Dizzy

False Information Police Officer
Elder God
NetherRealm Studios
He has said he thinks Shang is probably 12th, which is likely an up playing of shang. Some characters are for sure bad matches regardless of how he makes it look (like cyrax). Some other players could take some notes from wound on how they feel their char is instead of saying "my char is bad" at any chance they get.
 

YOMI DJT

LIn Kuei Champion
As a mu police officer I have to call out this mu chart as serious downplaying. 20 shangs mus=dis adv and even while the good mus are 6-4 vs Kano and losing to jade..... Lbsh Shang rushdown is better than cages. Has good zoning and good armor.

I think it's time for the REAL Shang chart
This isn't serious down playing this chart is pretty good. what would need to be changed. shangs pressure isn't better than cages but very similar. His corner game is better than cages tho.
 

YOMI DJT

LIn Kuei Champion
He has said he thinks Shang is probably 12th, which is likely an up playing of shang. Some characters are for sure bad matches regardless of how he makes it look (like cyrax). Some other players could take some notes from wound on how they feel their char is instead of saying "my char is bad" at any chance they get.
I still think rax vs shang is 7-3
 

ForeverKing

Patreon.com/MK_ForeverKing
Shang Tsung is one of the characters in this game that I actually feel can be really, really good, but nobody plays him at all
 

A F0xy Grampa

Problem X Promotions
Rain vs Shang is probably Rains favour IMO.

You gotta respec the lightning in the zoning game. Unless you get a SS to be blocked. Max range SS on block can be backdashed and another SS attempt should be able to be stopped with lightning too.
Rain will drain your meter near enough everytime (no reason not to)
Longer reach, higher damage better armour.

ST can d3 out of the RH, but thats not enough to give him safety.
 

trustinme

xbl-OBS trustinme
Shang Tsung is one of the characters in this game that I actually feel can be really, really good, but nobody plays him at all
agreed man,he just needs some representation.soul steal is proberly the most underrated move in the game and everyone should pick up shang because he's the coolest character in mk9.
 

Peckapowa

Champion
As a mu police officer I have to call out this mu chart as serious downplaying. 20 shangs mus=dis adv and even while the good mus are 6-4 vs Kano and losing to jade..... Lbsh Shang rushdown is better than cages. Has good zoning and good armor.

I think it's time for the REAL Shang chart
shangs pressure is not nearly as good as cages... shangs should never technically open you up.... the 21/21f2 mix up with cages yields far more reward because it gives him so many options because it jails you standing for frame trap plus he has way more chip its not even close
 

NRF CharlieMurphy

Kindergarten Meta
Rain vs Shang is probably Rains favour IMO.

You gotta respec the lightning in the zoning game. Unless you get a SS to be blocked. Max range SS on block can be backdashed and another SS attempt should be able to be stopped with lightning too.
Rain will drain your meter near enough everytime (no reason not to)
Longer reach, higher damage better armour.

ST can d3 out of the RH, but thats not enough to give him safety.
yeah i dont' agree with this... at all.
Shang can disrespect Lightening anywhere on the screen. He builds meter quickly.... He moves about the arena with freedom.

Rain controls zero percent of this match (on paper). I actually think Shang controls a majority of his matchups even with a life disadvantage.
You underestimate the power of +2

That doesn't mean you're wrong.... but I think the few reasons you tossed out just now aren't.... good.
 

YOMI DJT

LIn Kuei Champion
Rain vs Shang is probably Rains favour IMO.

You gotta respec the lightning in the zoning game. Unless you get a SS to be blocked. Max range SS on block can be backdashed and another SS attempt should be able to be stopped with lightning too.
Rain will drain your meter near enough everytime (no reason not to)
Longer reach, higher damage better armour.

ST can d3 out of the RH, but thats not enough to give him safety.
I think the mu could be 5-5 minimum.
shang has some of the best unbreakable damage
and one of the best corner games
Rain's options are all good too
but not enough to call it 6-4 rain imo
 

A F0xy Grampa

Problem X Promotions
shangs pressure is not nearly as good as cages... shangs should never technically open you up.... the 21/21f2 mix up with cages yields far more reward because it gives him so many options because it jails you standing for frame trap plus he has way more chip its not even close
Also Cages pressure is definitely more party mode, you can continue pressing buttons with Cage EVEN IF you read the opponent will armour and still block in time. (Against Sonya & Skarlet at least)

yeah i dont' agree with this... at all.
Shang can disrespect Lightening anywhere on the screen. He builds meter quickly.... He moves about the arena with freedom.

Rain controls zero percent of this match (on paper). I actually think Shang controls a majority of his matchups even with a life disadvantage.
You underestimate the power of +2

That doesn't mean you're wrong.... but I think the few reasons you tossed out just now aren't.... good.
Lightning is 24 frames, SS is 24 frames, GS is 29, so unless the Shang player is constantly doing SS, they cant keep up a legit zoning game. Shang doesnt move with freedom, but neither does Rain. Shangs got nothing in the air, neither does Rain. But Rain hurts a whole lot more than Shang does, as well as draining his meter (which Shang needs, but Rain doesnt).

Shang is definitely the easier character to bait a jump from in this match when theyre not up close. Just because of the lightning, even from fullscreen Rain can dash in and AA a forward jump, simple. Rain 101.

Shangs rushdown doesnt mean much, if you jump away from his GS pressure, it takes away a couple of his options and means he has to use other ones, that may be more risk, if he starts doing 1 2, Rain can neutral duck it and 4RH.

Shang has a good corner game, but Rain again, has a better one, repeated 4RH, shang cant reach that far, the pushback is too much. Also 4Rh = 56% at the wall.

The moment Rain sees the Gs get blocked, armour up and go into party mode. He cant be crossed over, so Shang must block and accept the fact Rain is gonna start offense.

Theyre both really simple characters to play, its just that Rain will usually always win on risk reward.
 

NRF CharlieMurphy

Kindergarten Meta
shangs pressure is not nearly as good as cages... shangs should never technically open you up.... the 21/21f2 mix up with cages yields far more reward because it gives him so many options because it jails you standing for frame trap plus he has way more chip its not even close
the sheer fact that Shang is always +2 is enough.

Shangs pressure starts at mid ground skull range.... longer reach.... always + advantage if he wants.... builds more meter ... and his combo's can't really be broken.

I think they're dead even.
Shang can open you up with that stupid OH into SS.... he always has 3 options off of the ground skull. low, mid, or OH. All safe.

Honestly.... without Wound... shang would be lost.
 

Death

Warrior
I'm not saying he's top 10. But I think he's just outside and better than chars like kang, reptile , sektor, mileena. I mainly dont agree with his mus vs the fish characters and other mid tier. Foxy you overrate rain so much lol. But it's refreshing considering all the downplaying that goes on
 

Peckapowa

Champion
the sheer fact that Shang is always +2 is enough.

Shangs pressure starts at mid ground skull range.... longer reach.... always + advantage if he wants.... builds more meter ... and his combo's can't really be broken.

I think they're dead even.
Shang can open you up with that stupid OH into SS.... he always has 3 options off of the ground skull. low, mid, or OH. All safe.

Honestly.... without Wound... shang would be lost.
he does not build nearly as much meter... 21 11f1 f33b3... enough said 21 is a far more brutal guessing game then ground skulls.
+2 means this... i can go for a poke and the best he can do is poke which i can wait to counter-poke if i read it..the worst i get for waiting is one more f4... its a very fair and simple ... i can always armor and if i read down 3 i can jump.... shangs combos do not end in a reset if i tech roll and he has to read that to force me to block an upskulll.... his combos dont do as much damage... the over head isnt too bad though for shang but its only 17% can be poked out of and an up close ss puts u at disadvantage.


its not even close cage has 21 2 21f2 1 11 11f1 f3 f33 f33b3 f33ex all has viable options if u mixup properly and utilize his core 21 mixup cage is way worst.
 

Peckapowa

Champion
I'm not saying he's top 10. But I think he's just outside and better than chars like kang, reptile , sektor, mileena. I mainly dont agree with his mus vs the fish characters and other mid tier. Foxy you overrate rain so much lol. But it's refreshing considering all the downplaying that goes on
reptile is top 10imo , shang is about the same as liu kang imo... hes in the same tier just about he has plenty of challenging matchups (smoke cyrax kenshi freddy kabal lao reptile noob liu kang sonya) hes a good all around character. his pokes are great but hes forced to poke a lot in footsies and when hes heavily outzoned he has a real rough time and his damage is not that great. soul steal is amazing though.
 

A F0xy Grampa

Problem X Promotions
I'm not saying he's top 10. But I think he's just outside and better than chars like kang, reptile , sektor, mileena. I mainly dont agree with his mus vs the fish characters and other mid tier. Foxy you overrate rain so much lol. But it's refreshing considering all the downplaying that goes on
IDK how you can have an opinion on a character you dont play/dont play against. Sorry.
You always say this, but I've never been given a reason as to why Rain sucks, by ANYONE.

He's basically Cyrax without resets and longer reach. RH vortex instead of command grabs.
 

Death

Warrior
Shang zoning is really good. You just have to be a really good player to make it effective. It's not braindead zoning like kenshi or kabal. SS is really good in foursomes. Does good damage, safe and has good range. The only problem with Shang is that you have to be an incredible player to master him. You also have to master and use soul steal which means you better be good with most of the cast. His only con IMO is his hitbox. His slow uppercut is irrelevant because he has incredible pokes and a 9f mid.

Good in breakable damage. I refuse to believe he loses to jade, noob, CSz and barely beats Kano. This character is good. Just outside top 10.
 

trustinme

xbl-OBS trustinme
I'm not saying he's top 10. But I think he's just outside and better than chars like kang, reptile , sektor, mileena. I mainly dont agree with his mus vs the fish characters and other mid tier. Foxy you overrate rain so much lol. But it's refreshing considering all the downplaying that goes on
i dont know man,maybe its just me but fighting jade with shang is a real pain.i dont think he's better than kang and reptile either but ive always said he's really good,definetly top 15.