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Match-up Discussion My Shang Tsung MU Chart

cR WoundCowboy

WoundCowbae <3
6-4 vs Ermac (Zaf finally agrees- I am done arguing this MU until somebody can beat me)

You wanna go?
Anytime... I am REALLY afraid of Ermac's horrible D+3, average D+1 and his gimmick offense that only works the first few times you fight against him. SS> force push. Let me guess, Ermac also goes even with Kabal and Sonya right?
 

Khaotic_xShangx

Fear the Skulls
i agree with mostly everything on here. Cyrax should be 3-7 tho. After playing denzell at mlg, that MU is a pain if the cyrax has proper footsies and constant net presence on the screen. Lao is not 3-7 and anybody who says so should be shoot(but not really). Also STRYKIE, scorpion's leg takedown is ass. Try armoring out of f3 from JC and see how much salt u develop when his knee goes on top of ur leg take down. same thing will have when trying to armor f4 pressure. Lastly, I too feel the ermac MU is 6-4 cause at full screen ermac cant do nothing but teleport or try to trade which both are bad. Ok u move into force push range, i block it, then chip u with SS back up chip u with a gs now i have the life lead. His pressure is nothing but throws and 312 and a little f4 spaced well. He cant get out of shang's upclose pressure easily cause of no armor or good pokes.
 

STRYKIE

Are ya' ready for MK11 kids?!
i agree with mostly everything on here. Cyrax should be 3-7 tho. After playing denzell at mlg, that MU is a pain if the cyrax has proper footsies and constant net presence on the screen. Lao is not 3-7 and anybody who says so should be shoot(but not really). Also STRYKIE, scorpion's leg takedown is ass. Try armoring out of f3 from JC and see how much salt u develop when his knee goes on top of ur leg take down. same thing will have when trying to armor f4 pressure. Lastly, I too feel the ermac MU is 6-4 cause at full screen ermac cant do nothing but teleport or try to trade which both are bad. Ok u move into force push range, i block it, then chip u with SS back up chip u with a gs now i have the life lead. His pressure is nothing but throws and 312 and a little f4 spaced well. He cant get out of shang's upclose pressure easily cause of no armor or good pokes.
So wait, does that mean Kitana's ass is leg? :16Bit

In all seriousness I mentioned takedown because it's untechable and as I mentioned before it's not really advisable for Shang to wake up with soul steal in the Scorp matchup. I don't really expect anyone to respect it's damage and believe me, I've tried falling back on armor that's way more suspect to meter drain against Cage, especially F0xy's Cage :(
 

cR WoundCowboy

WoundCowbae <3
i agree with mostly everything on here. Cyrax should be 3-7 tho. After playing denzell at mlg, that MU is a pain if the cyrax has proper footsies and constant net presence on the screen. Lao is not 3-7 and anybody who says so should be shoot(but not really). Also STRYKIE, scorpion's leg takedown is ass. Try armoring out of f3 from JC and see how much salt u develop when his knee goes on top of ur leg take down. same thing will have when trying to armor f4 pressure. Lastly, I too feel the ermac MU is 6-4 cause at full screen ermac cant do nothing but teleport or try to trade which both are bad. Ok u move into force push range, i block it, then chip u with SS back up chip u with a gs now i have the life lead. His pressure is nothing but throws and 312 and a little f4 spaced well. He cant get out of shang's upclose pressure easily cause of no armor or good pokes.
I have ermac listed as 6-4... Lao is really bad, which you will only know by playing an elite lao main. Cyrax is tough, but i need to play it more offline.
 

GamerBlake90

Blue Blurs for Life!
I think Sonya vs. Shang is 5-5.
This is exactly what I said. However, I have not played nearly enough top-notch Shang Tsung users to fully understand this match-up. I don't think anyone has, really; there are few Shang players. One of my biggest pet peeves is that there are all these good characters that just don't get the representation they rightfully deserve...I guess people get discouraged by learning curves.

Care to elaborate?
As I stated above, I don't have any experience to brag about in the match-up, but from what I am seeing...

For one, Sonya can't outzone Shang Tsung. It's the 8% from her projectile versus a jungle of skulls from Shang, and if one skull touches you, you are eating over 30% unbreakable damage PLUS a Soul Steal and then you have a few seconds of a Sonya mirror to worry about with a Damage Boost applied to the impostor, or he can put you back at zoning range and then you gotta work your way through the storm of skulls once again.

Yes, I know the Soul Steal isn't all it's cracked up to be, but c'mon...given the kind of character Sonya is, why would you pass up a few seconds to use her when she can do greater damage? You don't want a few moments of d4 - Military Stance, EX Cartwheel, or instant-air divekick? :D

Back to the skulls. Even whiffing d4 just to use it as a tool to approach Shang is not what I would encourage. You are risking the skulls again, or even a well-timed Soul Steal and you have the above scenario to worry about. I would instead use the threat of her shoulder charge from the Military Stance to perhaps unnerve the sorcerer.

Worse yet, if you get caught in the corner with Shang in control, put down the controller...because you've just lost. In the few times I've been caught in the corner, I could not get out at all, and you should be able to vouch for this, Cowboy. Once you end a corner combo with an overhead skull, you only have to block and watch what I do: if I try to escape with EX Cartwheel, you can block and take back pressure control; if you see me block the skull, you get free f4 - skull pressure. And an attempt to jump out? Shang Tsung's anti-crossover d1 would like to say hello. Now I realize Sonya has a strong corner game of her own, but...well, read on.

With this kind of match-up, Sonya is forced to remove her Sonic Rings from her game and take it up-close and personal with Shang, and like with Cage it becomes a session of 50/50 kombat, and I do not just mean mix-ups. Both characters have armored moves that they each have to watch for...Sonya's EX Cartwheel and Shang's EX Soul Steal, both of which are safe on block and lead to high reward if they hit. I don't want to give you about ten seconds full of an empowered Sonya and you don't want to give me a full combo that ends with a Stance mix-up. In a battle of armored moves, the one that was activated second will beat out the first.

It should be noted, though, that Shang's Wake-Up game isn't very reliable...Tom would agree with this. If you knock him down, Sonya is in business. So hope you get a correct guess from her mix-ups.

Now like I've said, this isn't a match-up I run into often...I still need to get in those consistent practice sessions with you like I resolved to do. But until then, I am not convinced that Sonya has any overwhelming advantage in this match-up and will therefore stick to the notion that it is 5-5.
 

Khaotic_xShangx

Fear the Skulls
I have ermac listed as 6-4... Lao is really bad, which you will only know by playing an elite lao main. Cyrax is tough, but i need to play it more offline.
I played PL for over an hour against lao and even tho lao forces shang to make better reads, it still wasnt that bad. Im saying its 4-6 but Perfect Legend might think its different.
 

cR WoundCowboy

WoundCowbae <3
Shang cant outzone sonya. Her projectile is too fast and even if it trades, shang cant convert to a combo. Not only that, but shang puts himself at huge risk when sonya gets at mid range because of d+4 and EX cartwheel. She has multiple options out of his pressure, including a 7 frame LAUNCHER. The only trouble shang gives sonya is in the corner; she wins everywhere else. Sonya has every advantage she could ask for.
 

GamerBlake90

Blue Blurs for Life!
Shang cant outzone sonya. Her projectile is too fast and even if it trades, shang cant convert to a combo. Not only that, but shang puts himself at huge risk when sonya gets at mid range because of d+4 and EX cartwheel. She has multiple options out of his pressure, including a 7 frame LAUNCHER. The only trouble shang gives sonya is in the corner; she wins everywhere else. Sonya has every advantage she could ask for.
So...you don't think Shang can win by getting the life lead and then flustering her with the skulls from a distance? I don't want to risk a projectile because I will gain nothing out of a trade other than both characters taking a little damage and I'm no better off than I was as far as the zoning goes. The f4 - skull pressure and the possibility of EX Cartwheel being baited also makes me nervous to engage in close combat with him.
 

Khaotic_xShangx

Fear the Skulls
So...you don't think Shang can win by getting the life lead and then flustering her with the skulls from a distance? I don't want to risk a projectile because I will gain nothing out of a trade other than both characters taking a little damage and I'm no better off than I was as far as the zoning goes. The f4 - skull pressure and the possibility of EX Cartwheel being baited also makes me nervous to engage in close combat with him.
dont even bother with rings from a far distance. get into to midscreen range and work from there. U can easily get to that distance. Like i told u, once u learn to walk the skulls the MU will be easier. Also baiting anything is a risk that everyone has to take at some point in time. Just dont get predictable with it and dont rely on it to get out of pressure.
 

GamerBlake90

Blue Blurs for Life!
dont even bother with rings from a far distance. get into to midscreen range and work from there. U can easily get to that distance. Like i told u, once u learn to walk the skulls the MU will be easier. Also baiting anything is a risk that everyone has to take at some point in time. Just dont get predictable with it and dont rely on it to get out of pressure.
But how do you walk the skulls? Shang can conjure ground/overhead skulls from three different ranges and he can just keep changing them as he walks backwards or forwards. Even a slightly mis-timed dash-block means eating a combo you won't be able to get out of with a Breaker. With that kind of zoning game, Shang has a powerful control over the whole screen.

And to anyone who thinks I am overrating the skulls, just try working around this scenario yourself and see if that is the case.
 

Khaotic_xShangx

Fear the Skulls
But how do you walk the skulls? Shang can conjure ground/overhead skulls from three different ranges and he can just keep changing them as he walks backwards or forwards. Even a slightly mis-timed dash-block means eating a combo you won't be able to get out of with a Breaker. With that kind of zoning game, Shang has a powerful control over the whole screen.

And to anyone who thinks I am overrating the skulls, just try working around this scenario yourself and see if that is the case.
dont dash block...literally walk the skulls. When zoning with shang we mostly use the skull on top or the one in front. So occasionally walk backwards and throw a ring then work ur way back in. Once u are midscreen the shang players has to think harder whether to do SS, cgs, or cus. Doing mgs or us is risker cause u can ex cartwheel or dive kick. I will also admit that dive kick goes right over cgs, so i get punished for making the right read of sonya jumping at me.
 
But how do you walk the skulls? Shang can conjure ground/overhead skulls from three different ranges and he can just keep changing them as he walks backwards or forwards. Even a slightly mis-timed dash-block means eating a combo you won't be able to get out of with a Breaker. With that kind of zoning game, Shang has a powerful control over the whole screen.

And to anyone who thinks I am overrating the skulls, just try working around this scenario yourself and see if that is the case.

The skulls are easy to deal with Blake your overracting lol
 

LEGEND

YES!
Sonya can armor through F4(-)GS

and spacing out ground skulls isn't to hard, or at least not hard for the people i fight
 
^^ This. Sonya just has to dash block in and both D+4 and Cartwheel will usually beat out anything that Shang does.
6-4 Sonya favor Blake you need to level up your footsies and poking game to fight against certain characters I told you this a while back.
Excartwheel every time to escape pressure is a cursed specially against shang also use onion rings more in this Mu.
 

kanaida

Kanaida (MK9 Dashboard for android)
I think you should revise jax, he's very easy to punish. I just stay ducking most of the time, Jump kick over fireballs or when he ground punches, when he gets up or looks like he's gonna forward punch I uppercut. I try to stay out of his direct path and get him from behind with jumps when possible. Stealing him is the best though, especially when you use his xray. But for the most part I just reverse his own tactics back to him. His far ground punch is like 20%ish alone. I'd avoid dashing as well because jax is pretty quick so I need to be able to react or block immediately.
 

kanaida

Kanaida (MK9 Dashboard for android)
And one thing I can say for smoke, I never stop blocking. I press down here and there to trick him into a teleport and punish with 1,3,fGS etc... his combos are pretty straight forward to block as well. The smart ones that counter the fireballs are harder at range, but take into account when you block smoke balls don't hurt you, just build his meter so you can toy with him a bit and stall.
 

kanaida

Kanaida (MK9 Dashboard for android)
I agree about johnny. He used to give me trouble until I just learned to never be in the path of his attacks. I poke and dip out of there and punish his misses now. He really doesn't stand a chance vs the close upper fireball.
 

trustinme

xbl-OBS trustinme
And one thing I can say for smoke, I never stop blocking. I press down here and there to trick him into a teleport and punish with 1,3,fGS etc... his combos are pretty straight forward to block as well. The smart ones that counter the fireballs are harder at range, but take into account when you block smoke balls don't hurt you, just build his meter so you can toy with him a bit and stall.
do you mean his teleport punch? why would you punish that with 1,3 fgs when you can full combo punish it? why the hell would any decent smoke throw out that move anyway? smoke is a real pain for shang,i think soulsteal is his best option in this match.its weird although this is shangs worst match i really enjoy playing it
 
shang has a bad dash speed and can't interrupt 2 straight far claws without meter... ex skull is his only saving grace