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Gun Reform?

Illmatix

Illmatix

Remember, representing ermac is illmatic.
A F0xy Grampa said:
It wasnt condecending at all, it was me wondering what you're united under these days? It might not be US specific, since everybody is fucked up right now.
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i think it goes without saying that the only thing human beings are united in is individuality, meaning looking out for their own interests is the few things any1 can relate to. to each is own is what all americans are united under lol
 
TakeAChance

TakeAChance

TYM White Knight
Here is the problem with choosing schools.

If you got to choose schools, those schools would then have political affiliation because all gun touting republicans would go to the school armed to the teeth with guards and all lesse faire democarts would go to the school with kittens and rainbows.

Whatever party was in power would obviously favour the school under it's affiliation.

Education would become a clusterfuck of a political endeavour. Even moreso then it is now.

You think that church and state was bad? Wait until you have politics WITHIN schools.
 
TakeAChance

TakeAChance

TYM White Knight
Illmatix said:
i think it goes without saying that the only thing human beings are united in is individuality, meaning looking out for their own interests is the few things any1 can relate to. to each is own is what all americans are united under lol
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Americans are united under "The American Dream" and the principals behind it. If you work really hard, you are due your rewards. If you don't you are not.

It's why it's so hard to get a universal health care system in the States. People are to blinded by the fact that they COULD be paying for Joe Blow down the street who is on Social assistance at the moment.

Then, when one of their family members get sick, and their insurance wont cover it, they get all pissy and are on the news bashing the current government.
 
Illmatix

Illmatix

Remember, representing ermac is illmatic.
STB TakeAChance said:
Here is the problem with choosing schools.

If you got to choose schools, those schools would then have political affiliation because all gun touting republicans would go to the school armed to the teeth with guards and all lesse faire democarts would go to the school with kittens and rainbows.

Whatever party was in power would obviously favour the school under it's affiliation.

Education would become a clusterfuck of a political endeavour. Even moreso then it is now.

You think that church and state was bad? Wait until you have politics WITHIN schools.
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truth
 
rev0lver

rev0lver

Come On Die Young
NapoleonComplex said:
Well people in the south are not all ignorant, racist rednecks. The black population is much higher here than in the liberal "tolerant" northeast. The majority have guns for hunting (it's part of manhood and their culture). I was born here even though I'm technically "northeastern"

And rev0lver, you want to put those gun shops out of business?
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If it prevented loss of life, yes. I value that over the life of a business. But again, I'm talking about assault weapons, not a handgun ban or anything.
 
TotteryManx

TotteryManx

cr. HP Master
The Kano guy made a good point. While I believe obtaining firearms should have a stricter policy, we should be talking about how to improve our education system and finding ways for people who cant afford health insurance to receive medical attention.
 
Zoidberg747

Zoidberg747

My blades will find your heart
TheSpore said:
I know I am entering this discussion quite late in the thread and I will admit I did not read the entire 13 pages of this thread, well I just don't have that kind of time on my hands, but I would like to at least give my view of gun control and what not. Before I put that out let me at least show forth some credintials I served 4 years in the military (US Navy), two of those years was working as an analyst, and have obtained a B.S. degree in Criminal Justice recently, so this topic has been a long going topic in my classes.

Anyway, I do not feel that the 2nd Amendmant should be absolved, nor should we only ban certain weapons ( assault weapons), the idea that gun violence is caused by violent forms of media is absurd as well. ( I'm sure many of us have had enough of that scapegoat) What I do feel is that we should have a stricter background checks run on people trying to purchase a weapon and a there should be a way to track weapons being circulated in the country, because this can in a way be helpful to reduce the second hand sales and help better track those weapons that are stolen from prior owners and do wind up in a criminal's hands, I also agree with many of the exec. orders signed to allow sharing data between different agencies, because without that sharing often times certain warnings and information needed to investigate a case falls short, due to agencies refusing to share information between each other. There really is no way to stop gun violence in the country, there will always be people that will not obey the law for one reason or another.

What the country needs to do is to have stricter sentences for offenders of gun related crimes and I do agree about adding some extra security measures in our school systems. In the end though we cannot blame any one thing for a crime, but the perpatrator themselves. If this person commits an evil act and is young and under the age 18, then the parents must be given some shared blame. IMO and coming from experience of being a father it must crucial to educate and guide our children as they grow about weapons and violence, they need discipline and reinforcment of these things as well, we need to also teach them where the line between fanatsy and reality ends and begins.

Another issue here is the media sensationalizes a tragedy by reporting bad information and constantly talking about a tragedy for a long period of time, all this says is to every person who wants to get their 15 min of fame that that is what they must do.
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I agree with everything you just said. Nice to hear it from someone with credentials.
 
Zoidberg747

Zoidberg747

My blades will find your heart
A F0xy Grampa said:
I know we're the home of DnB, which is the forefather of Dubstep and so on. Home of the rave scene.
Not that I give a fuck, but we have a monarchy, which seemed to be a big hit with the wedding.
Obviously you cant unite everybody with the same thing, but theres gotta be some things there. But I'm not a US citizen so hopefully you guys can correct me.
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Football
 
Flagg

Flagg

Champion
The whole point of the 2nd Amendment was to have a armed militia while the U.S. developed it's army.

Wake up! It's the 21st Century now, you have arguably the best military in the world. Do you honestly think your government will turn against you, and do you honestly believe the armed forces would turn against the people, you know, those guys that always have their ass on the line defending your freedoms? In one breath Illmatix is saying that the us population need guns in case the army turns against everyone,yet he intends to join the army. WTF!

If you distrust your government, your army and even your fellow man that much, then you are not free. Because you are not free to live in harmony with each other and never will.

Man you pro-gun/survivalist guys distrust your Government so much yet people are happy to give over personal information to things like Facebook, Twitter and even internet forums. Every day I go on YouTube im getting some shit about whether I want to leave a mobile contact number or my real name. This also happens on Hotmail. The second they make stuff like that compulsory, which will happen, i'll simply close my accounts down on those two sites.

One last thing, if the 2nd Amendment is truly a right, why arent guns free? Seems unfair and undemocratic the poor dont have the same 'rights' as everyone else.
 
TheSpore

TheSpore

Nurgle Chaos God of Death and Disease
Flagg said:
The whole point of the 2nd Amendment was to have a armed militia while the U.S. developed it's army.

Wake up! It's the 21st Century now, you have arguably the best military in the world. Do you honestly think your government will turn against you, and do you honestly believe the armed forces would turn against the people, you know, those guys that always have their ass on the line defending your freedoms? In one breath Illmatix is saying that the us population need guns in case the army turns against everyone,yet he intends to join the army. WTF!

If you distrust your government, your army and even your fellow man that much, then you are not free. Because you are not free to live in harmony with each other and never will.

Man you pro-gun/survivalist guys distrust your Government so much yet people are happy to give over personal information to things like Facebook, Twitter and even internet forums. Every day I go on YouTube im getting some shit about whether I want to leave a mobile contact number or my real name. This also happens on Hotmail. The second they make stuff like that compulsory, which will happen, i'll simply close my accounts down on those two sites.

One last thing, if the 2nd Amendment is truly a right, why arent guns free? Seems unfair and undemocratic the poor dont have the same 'rights' as everyone else.
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This country has a large amount of conspiracy theorists, that do feel the government is out to get them, we also have a good amount of doomsday preppers or just plain old gun enthuesatists. I think mainly though its more of having our constitutional rights violated. More and more our country is giving up many of its freedoms due to incidents like Columbine, Sandy Hook, and above all 9/11. Read the Patriot Act and the recently re-signed NDAA bill, which allows the government the ability to detain US citizens on suspicion of terroristic activities without due process of law. I can see where many can trully grow that kind of paranoia, also we live in a time where much information is public and if one is not careful what they post on the net they can be called in for questioning by a fed. agency. Granted these types of power are utilyzed in responsible and reasonable manner, but there have been cases where it hasn't been used right, such as the case of a 12 or 13 year old being detained and questioned for a Facebook post without the permission of the parents by Secret Service, along with cases where 3 year olds are friskeed/patted down by airport security and in some cases dennied access to the plane just because they share the same name as a person on the no fly list. So, I do see both ends of the arguments here, what many need to understand though is that security is not enforced out of convienence, but it is for the safety of many and yes it often does get abused by people that tend to lack goood judgment or proper training and education in there line of work.

Also when certain powers are enforced and used properly the public will not hear about, but as soon as these powers abused the world will know and it makes the many look bad as compared to the few. I pesonally do trust that our government will do what is right for the country and its people, I love my country and served it for 4 years and still support the military today.
 
Flagg

Flagg

Champion
TheSpore said:
This country has a large amount of conspiracy theorists, that do feel the government is out to get them, we also have a good amount of doomsday preppers or just plain old gun enthuesatists. I think mainly though its more of having our constitutional rights violated. More and more our country is giving up many of its freedoms due to incidents like Columbine, Sandy Hook, and above all 9/11. Read the Patriot Act and the recently re-signed NDAA bill, which allows the government the ability to detain US citizens on suspicion of terroristic activities without due process of law. I can see where many can trully grow that kind of paranoia, also we live in a time where much information is public and if one is not careful what they post on the net they can be called in for questioning by a fed. agency. Granted these types of power are utilyzed in responsible and reasonable manner, but there have been cases where it hasn't been used right, such as the case of a 12 or 13 year old being detained and questioned for a Facebook post without the permission of the parents by Secret Service, along with cases where 3 year olds are friskeed/patted down by airport security and in some cases dennied access to the plane just because they share the same name as a person on the no fly list. So, I do see both ends of the arguments here, what many need to understand though is that security is not enforced out of convienence, but it is for the safety of many and yes it often does get abused by people that tend to lack goood judgment or proper training and education in there line of work.

Also when certain powers are enforced and used properly the public will not hear about, but as soon as these powers abused the world will know and it makes the many look bad as compared to the few. I pesonally do trust that our government will do what is right for the country and its people, I love my country and served it for 4 years and still support the military today.
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Social networks are the devil. Over here a guy was arrested last year following hate speech he made on Twitter regarding a black player that collapsed during a football game. In the UK, racist/hate speech is illegal, and arguably, he broke the law, but people arent as safe to be pricks like they think on things like Facebook and Twitter. Where do you draw the line on what is socially acceptable speech? I'm not sure people are giving up their rights due to Columbine/Sandy Hook, because you have to ask yourself....is throwing out a relic like the 2nd Amendment really giving up your rights? Look at the rest of the West, we really dont have problems with guns like you guys do and I think it's largely because of the saturation. It's one of tradition as well. Wasn't the Patriot Act implimented by Bush and his cronies? Regardless, stuff like that is a "get out of jail free" card for politicians over stepping the mark. Stuff like that really needs to go. Getting back to Facebook, if people dont want their personal info out there, dont join these sites. They're retarded anyway, I dont need to see someone telling the world how they just ate a sandwich which induced them to laugh out loud at the end.

The reason I think a lot of paranoia exists in the U.S. psyche is because over in Europe/UK, we have had tyrants, kings, despots. But they came and they went, we became educated and civilised and we largely trust that our governments wont turn like that again. I dont think they will, not the way the world market works now. The U.S. see the history of Europe and it terrifies them. It's like being a kid, knowing all the kids have had their first school jab, and you refusing to get one because you see the discomfort of the others.

I'm of the opinion that the 2nd Amendment is a relic now, and has no place in a civilised, modern society.
 
Flagg

Flagg

Champion
Maybe it does infringe on constitutional rights, but the parents of those dead children just see the loss of life, not rights.
 
TheSpore

TheSpore

Nurgle Chaos God of Death and Disease
Flagg: I never knew that about racist speech in the UK, over here you can say just about anything without recourse or legal action, but our lawbooks do have in place a sort of law that certain words are considered dangerous to use, such as threatening death or serious harm to another. Althuogh I don't get it, because we have groups like West Buro Baptist Church that protest dead soliers funerals screaming terrible hate speech, and were recently driven out of Conn. for trying to speak there venom at the funerals of the Sandy Hook vicitms.

I see you POV though on how the 2nd Admen. is a relic, but the one thing I ask though is if we were to allow that right to be absolved or violated, then where will the government stop. I sound sort of like the paranoid bunch, but I tend to look further ahead at a bigger picture rather than the present, because if we were to allow that to happen, then we do invite the gov.'s ability to move from one right to another.

Your point about history is very valid, when the gun control arguments begin all I here is how past governments took weapons from the citizens then destroyed them, leaders like Hitler and Stalin, but it should also be understood that the way our gov. is designed is to disallow these things to occur. Sure our Pres. can inact exec. orders, but he can only do so much with said orders, many of our laws and bills have to pass through not only Congress, but our judicial branch as well, and even if a law is passed the states still have states rights that allow them to stop many fed. laws from being used on their populations. The other argument I hear, which I feel is both valid and invalid is that by taking the guns away you are only removing them from the law abiding citizens and the criminals will continue to have their weapons, which is for the most part true.

I do feel as well that we can look to other nations as an example of what we could expect to see if certain laws are proposed and passed, such as the UK. They may have much less gun related crimes, but from what I have read and researched is that violent crime is stil quite alive and kicking, I'm sure you could prolly further confirm such things though, seeing how you live there.
 
McNasty

McNasty

Moist.
Id like to mention that there are areas in america where assault weapons are useful. Mainly alaska due to the grizzly population and there is no better penetrating tumbler of a round then the .223 The AR-15 is the ideal truck, home defense gun for aggressive animals and varmints.
 
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