Gun Reform?

[TakeAChance]

Have you ever been to the south?

Only on vacations / travel cross overs.

My wife watches a lot of hart of dixie..does that count?

 

[rev0lver]

Unfortunately that's not true, I hope it were, It would be so much easier. Mexico has steel clawed gun control laws, If they find a bullet SHELL on you, you go to prision. Still 1000s of people are killed in result of assault rifles and firearms, even it you are not involved in drugs, you may just be walking around. To think that forbidding something is the solution for me is delusional. Like I said, I hope it were that easy.

Where do you think they get those guns?

The answer is from legal gun shops in the United States. Another point against assault rifles.

The violence in Mexico is off the charts, and we share a border with them. They pour into our Country illegally, and you don't see how this is relevant?

Stockton is the most violent city in California (I live in California), most of the homicides are gang bangers shooting each other, many of them illegal immigrants.

Actually, areas with high populations of illegal immigrants have lower crime rates than everywhere else. https://asunews.asu.edu/node/24489

So no, it's not relevant to our statistics.

Once again, I'm sick of seeing unfounded claims from both sides.

 

[LesMore]

I would like to mention that where I live: Chicago, you would much rather protect yourself then rely on the police... Chicago Police on the whole are pretty evil and sadistic... the upside is that they are so busy dealing with the urban warzone that you can get away with alot in Chicago if your not standing on a street corner gangstering out...But seriously you do not want the Chicago police anywhere near you... They are scary... Shit just down the street from GGA is an F-ing heroin and crack warzone....

 

[A F0xy Grampa]

You seriously think this is true? seriously? really?

Look, now guns are legal, it is somewhat difficult to get illegal wapons. If they are banned or restricted, a black market will arise, and then it will be really really really easy to get ilegal weapons.

In the age of prohibition in America, I doubt it was easier to get alcohol then compared to now, and this is for something people want and use regularly.

Crime in America is pretty dumb anyway, its like American criminals/gangsters/whatever are trying to get caught.

 

[NapoleonComplex]

Only on vacations / travel cross overs.

My wife watches a lot of hart of dixie..does that count?

Well people in the south are not all ignorant, racist rednecks. The black population is much higher here than in the liberal "tolerant" northeast. The majority have guns for hunting (it's part of manhood and their culture). I was born here even though I'm technically "northeastern"

And rev0lver, you want to put those gun shops out of business?

 

[TheSpore]

I know I am entering this discussion quite late in the thread and I will admit I did not read the entire 13 pages of this thread, well I just don't have that kind of time on my hands, but I would like to at least give my view of gun control and what not. Before I put that out let me at least show forth some credintials I served 4 years in the military (US Navy), two of those years was working as an analyst, and have obtained a B.S. degree in Criminal Justice recently, so this topic has been a long going topic in my classes.

Anyway, I do not feel that the 2nd Amendmant should be absolved, nor should we only ban certain weapons ( assault weapons), the idea that gun violence is caused by violent forms of media is absurd as well. ( I'm sure many of us have had enough of that scapegoat) What I do feel is that we should have a stricter background checks run on people trying to purchase a weapon and a there should be a way to track weapons being circulated in the country, because this can in a way be helpful to reduce the second hand sales and help better track those weapons that are stolen from prior owners and do wind up in a criminal's hands, I also agree with many of the exec. orders signed to allow sharing data between different agencies, because without that sharing often times certain warnings and information needed to investigate a case falls short, due to agencies refusing to share information between each other. There really is no way to stop gun violence in the country, there will always be people that will not obey the law for one reason or another.

What the country needs to do is to have stricter sentences for offenders of gun related crimes and I do agree about adding some extra security measures in our school systems. In the end though we cannot blame any one thing for a crime, but the perpatrator themselves. If this person commits an evil act and is young and under the age 18, then the parents must be given some shared blame. IMO and coming from experience of being a father it must crucial to educate and guide our children as they grow about weapons and violence, they need discipline and reinforcment of these things as well, we need to also teach them where the line between fanatsy and reality ends and begins.

Another issue here is the media sensationalizes a tragedy by reporting bad information and constantly talking about a tragedy for a long period of time, all this says is to every person who wants to get their 15 min of fame that that is what they must do.

 

[GutiSapiens]

Where do you think they get those guns?

The answer is from legal gun shops in the United States. Another point against assault rifles.

Where do you get that fact? It is not unfounded because I've heard that silly argument before, but you ought to read this

http://frontpagemag.com/2011/ryan-mauro/where-drug-cartels-really-get-their-arms/

They have facts from wikileaks

 

[MagicMan357]

Well people in the south are not all ignorant, racist rednecks. The black population is much higher here than in the liberal "tolerant" northeast. The majority have guns for hunting (it's part of manhood and their culture). I was born here even though I'm technically "northeastern"

And rev0lver, you want to put those gun shops out of business?

HAHAHAHA mixing guns with manhood LMFAO not even close

I just lust love how a hunk of metal is the source of this whole dumbass outcry yet we never see this kind of response when it comes to shit that matters...you know like education?

 

[A F0xy Grampa]

Replace the guns with REAL D'N'B and good legal MDMA. That will sort you lot out.

Seems like the 2nd amendment is something so American that Americans cling to it like it defines them or something. What other gun weilding country defines themselves by their number / freedom of guns?

Or better yet, what else do Americans have to define themselves as an entire country? Other than freedom (which so many other countries have anyway) or weaponry.

 

[GutiSapiens]

What the country needs to do is to have stricter sentences for offenders of gun related crimes and I do agree about adding some extra security measures in our school systems.

I agree with this, what I would say, is let the parents decide, some schools will have armed guards in every door and some wont even have a door, let each parent decide which school they want to enroll their children in.

 

[TheSpore]

I agree with this, what I would say, is let the parents decide, some schools will have armed guards in every door and some wont even have a door, let each parent decide which school they want to enroll their children in.

I have preached that for years, I find it silly how I must enroll my child in a paticular school simply because I live in a certain location. Parents should have all the power in that decision as well deciding on what type of media their children consume. I know that today I won't let my 5 year old son play MK, but I will allow him to play SFIV, because he can handle and grasp the fantasy of it and knows whats right and worng, but I can't let him play MK simply because I don't feel like explaining that the scary lady with big teeth is not going to eat him, oh yeah and its a lil to extreme for him

 

[Ilthuain]

The moment you start taking freedom to choose away from people, is the moment your society is doomed.

There is no historical precedent for that statement.

First, all cultures limit freedom of choice. You cannot have a functioning society without doing this. Aside from legal repercussions, there are social forces that punish certain decisions.

Second, some cultures thrived when their governments became stronger and imposed more limits on personal freedom. Roman life under Augustus became far more restrictive as he introduced moral restrictions and even limited the style of dress Roman citizens could wear in public. The end result of his freedom-limiting governance was Pax Romana, a 207 year period of peace and prosperity. Imposing order through restrictions didn't doom Roman society.

 

[GutiSapiens]

There is no historical precedent for that statement.

Soviet Union

 

[GutiSapiens]

I have preached that for years, I find it silly how I must enroll my child in a paticular school simply because I live in a certain location. Parents should have all the power in that decision as well deciding on what type of media their children consume. I know that today I won't let my 5 year old son play MK, but I will allow him to play SFIV, because he can handle and grasp the fantasy of it and knows whats right and worng, but I can't let him play MK simply because I don't feel like explaining that the scary lady with big teeth is not going to eat him, oh yeah and its a lil to extreme for him

Exactly!! there can't be universal because every person wants different things. One must be able to chose.

 

[Ilthuain]

Soviet Union

No, you wrote....

The moment you start taking freedom to choose away from people, is the moment your society is doomed.

You did not write "some societies that limited freedoms to an extent greater than that which would be deemed acceptable in Western society eventually fell". Your statement is written like a rule, and it isn't remotely a constant throughout history, therefore your statement is not supported by history.

Also, the Soviet Union's failure was not a direct result of "taking the freedom to choose" away from people. There are far more restrictive governments around the world that continue to thrive.

 

[Ilthuain]

I have preached that for years, I find it silly how I must enroll my child in a paticular school simply because I live in a certain location. Parents should have all the power in that decision ...

You do have the power to enroll your child in another school, you just have to pay for private school.

If you could select any public school, the public school with high marks (which are often subsidized by local levies) would become overcrowded and unable to maintain their standards.

 

[Illmatix]

Replace the guns with REAL D'N'B and good legal MDMA. That will sort you lot out.

Seems like the 2nd amendment is something so American that Americans cling to it like it defines them or something. What other gun weilding country defines themselves by their number / freedom of guns?

Or better yet, what else do Americans have to define themselves as an entire country? Other than freedom (which so many other countries have anyway) or weaponry.

how americans define themselves : as individuals.
where do you come from?

 

[GutiSapiens]

No, you wrote....



You did not write "some societies that limited freedoms to an extent greater than that which would be deemed acceptable in Western society eventually fell". Your statement is written like a rule, and it isn't remotely a constant throughout history, therefore your statement is not supported by history.

Also, the Soviet Union's failure was not a direct result of "taking the freedom to choose" away from people. There are far more restrictive governments around the world that continue to thrive.

I don't know how a citizen would prefer a state that restrict their options rather than to give you freedom to chose what you say and what you do.
But hey, maybe freedom is not for all, maybe some people like slavery better. That I will never understand.

And it is a rule, take freedom away and see what happens. Please name 1 country in which freedom has been heavily restricted that thrives: Cuba? maybe? North Korea?

 

[GutiSapiens]

You do have the power to enroll your child in another school, you just have to pay for private school.

If you could select any public school, the public school with high marks (which are often subsidized by local levies) would become overcrowded and unable to maintain their standards.

That's the whole point! that each school wants students so they will get better in order to attract more costumers (student's parents)

 

[A F0xy Grampa]

how americans define themselves : as individuals.
where do you come from?

I dont think you understand what I'm saying.
Without guns, what unites all (or at least some) Americans? Something national.

I'm from england and we've got at least some things that do that.
It just seems like from an outsiders POV that you guys can't unite unless its something to do with warring. Even the 4th of July is.

United States of Warfare

Can you imagine if the 2nd amendment was the right to bear a set of turntables, I bet you'd all be going crazy about it, just cause its a written right.

 

[Illmatix]

I dont think you understand what I'm saying.
Without guns, what unites all (or at least some) Americans? Something national.

I'm from england and we've got at least some things that do that.
It just seems like from an outsiders POV that you guys can't unite unless its something to do with warring.

United States of Warfare

what unites people in the uk? something national?

 

[A F0xy Grampa]

what unites people in the uk? something national?

I know we're the home of DnB, which is the forefather of Dubstep and so on. Home of the rave scene.
Not that I give a fuck, but we have a monarchy, which seemed to be a big hit with the wedding.
Obviously you cant unite everybody with the same thing, but theres gotta be some things there. But I'm not a US citizen so hopefully you guys can correct me.

 

[Ilthuain]

I don't know how a citizen would prefer a state that restrict their options rather than to give you freedom to chose what you say and what you do.
But hey, maybe freedom is not for all, maybe some people like slavery better. That I will never understand.

I didn't say I would prefer restriction. You are conflating "what was" with "what I would like". History deals with "what was", and a student of history studies without substituting the evidence with his or her prejudices. History suggests that restrictive governments can indeed survive, and sometimes they can defeat governments that divide power more equally (Peloponnesian War, 431-404 BCE).

The extreme lack of government control, by comparison, has a very poor track record.

And it is a rule, take freedom away and see what happens. Please name 1 country in which freedom has been heavily restricted that thrives: Cuba? maybe? North Korea?

I did. I answered Rome during Pax Romana. I'll also give you modern day Singapore, China under the Tang dynasty (618-907), the German Empire of 1871...

 

[Illmatix]

I know we're the home of DnB, which is the forefather of Dubstep and so on. Home of the rave scene.
Not that I give a fuck, but we have a monarchy, which seemed to be a big hit with the wedding.
Obviously you cant unite everybody with the same thing, but theres gotta be some things there. But I'm not a US citizen so hopefully you guys can correct me.

well we created hip hop and rock n roll. the super bowl. black friday.
ya know stuff that doesnt matter.
it's kinda of funny how you guys still celebrate the weddings of powerless kings but when we debate, not war over, a key to the constitution and the inception of our nation, you say we aren't united? you try to make it sound irrational, sounds a little condescending. how is it living united under the rave scene?

 

[A F0xy Grampa]

well we created hip hop and rock n roll. the super bowl. black friday.
ya know stuff that doesnt matter.
it's kinda of funny how you guys still celebrate the weddings of powerless kings but when we debate, not war over, a key to the constitution and the inception of our nation, you say we aren't united? you try to make it sound irrational, sounds a little condescending. how is it living united under the rave scene?

It wasnt condecending at all, it was me wondering what you're united under these days? It might not be US specific, since everybody is fucked up right now.

I don't get why anybody gives a shit about the royal family, and I'd put money on it that none of the UK members on these forums do either.

If it wasnt for the rave scene, there wouldnt have been so many mixed race babies (myself included) in england now. So its quite understandable that people united under that.