Match-up Discussion The Kommunity Baraka MU Chart

[EVB SomeCubanGuy]

Kit's F2 only punishes close-mid range Blade Charges, but even with a Max Range Charge she can check you with a F2. Your only option to avoid the F2 after a blocked max range Charge is to jump back or backdash. On top of that, she can always space you out more with her dashes and she can ALWAYS punish a whiffed Charge with 50%.

 

[1man3letters]

Tetra and 1manletters are the only Baraka players who don't downplay him in the Kitana Match.

Everyother Kitana has it 7-3 her winning too.

His Ex Blade charge can be annoying, and so can his blade charge at the furthest distance.
His zoning is okay, his d4 is a good tool, and his many frame traps / resets can be a problem too.

Kitana can't damage him zoning, and as always, she plays a footsie orientated game. She doesn't have amazing rushdown or a good mixup game. She has to footsie him out, and with blade charge, it can get annoying and accustom her to blocking more. She wins the match, but she doesn't win it more than 6-4.

That's just my opinion.

Sindel- I feel she beats baraka. Should he ex charge her through her fireballs... so what? It throws her full screen, and she can continue zoning.
The only problem would be if it corners her. She can gain massive meter and deal chip damage with zoning, and her 4,4 can punish mid length charges.

yea we have similar views on the kitana MU,
i dont think its a 3-7 at all personally
baraka got tools for 21,jk~fan and can punish her maxed range d1 & no armor for his frametraps.
hes not fucked in the mu unless he starts whiffing stuff so the barakas footsies do have to be very on point.
the mu needs to be played tom brady lame by the baraka player, its a fun one imo though

on sindel.
DanCock ive seen also feels its a 4-6 MU,
ive had the MU at 4.5-5.5 for the longest time and when rounding off my .5 scores for this chart,i found it hard to put at 4-6, like i have reptile at 4.5-5.5 aswell but that MU waranted a 4-6 more to me than the sindel one did.
her zoning can be very annoying and fucks with barakas turtle game but as you said its big trouble for her when she gets in corner and her only answer to frametraps is xray but she does have the meter building tools. she also has faster normals than baraka so its not just a case of get in and win either.
true point about ex charge just knocking sindel away for more zoning,i try limit my ex/charges in that mu unless it putting her in the corner.
i just feel she only has the slighest of advs in the MU but maybe i need to explore it more

 

[EVB SomeCubanGuy]

Let's change it to 6-4...after seeing how Tetra did, as well as playing some sets against gr8one and a local offline Kit player down here I'm convinced that's not as bad as I once thought. For some reason her fucked up hitbox has almost no effect when you cross her up on her D1. She can still avoid em by D3, but JK beats that as well. You just gotta be careful when waking up against her is all since F2 can blowup all your wakeup options.

 

[1man3letters]

Let's change it to 6-4...after seeing how Tetra did, as well as playing some sets against gr8one and a local offline Kit player down here I'm convinced that's not as bad as I once thought. For some reason her fucked up hitbox has almost no effect when you cross her up on her D1. She can still avoid em by D3, but JK beats that as well. You just gotta be careful when waking up against her is all since F2 can blowup all your wakeup options.

will edit now amigo

 

[EVB SomeCubanGuy]

Hmmmm so I talked with PL a bit, and apparently he thinks Baraka goes 5-5 with Kung Lao. Here's his reasoning:

"well this is how i feel

baraka's d4 gives kung lao problems for approaching

also he has a safe counter poke that pushes kung lao away with his own spin

kung lao cant zone cause of his df2 charge

also kung lao cant punish it unless he uses a bar for ex spin to punish it

kung lao has a hard time getting into build meter and do all his teleport shenanigans

and baraka hurts

baraka at the same time cant just approach kung lao for the same reasons"

Though I don't necessarily agree, he does bring up some interesting points. Thoughts?

 

[Zoidberg747]

1man3letters you can change Kitana to 4-6 on my chart. I severely underestimated spark to stop zoning, that shit is so good.

 

[Konqrr]

IMO Blade Charge is the best whiff punisher in the game due to its speed.

Baraka footsies are underrated.

 

[TheTetraSpirit]

Hmmmm so I talked with PL a bit, and apparently he thinks Baraka goes 5-5 with Kung Lao. Here's his reasoning:

"well this is how i feel

baraka's d4 gives kung lao problems for approaching

also he has a safe counter poke that pushes kung lao away with his own spin

kung lao cant zone cause of his df2 charge

also kung lao cant punish it unless he uses a bar for ex spin to punish it

kung lao has a hard time getting into build meter and do all his teleport shenanigans

and baraka hurts

baraka at the same time cant just approach kung lao for the same reasons"

Though I don't necessarily agree, he does bring up some interesting points. Thoughts?

Right now, I think it's 4-6, but when you think about it, it kinda has the hallmark of being a 5-5, mainly because he has no armor to get out of corner rape.
Spin also TOTALLY negates his jumpy bullshit as long as your reactions are on point.
I dunno for sure; I'd need more time with it offline to say for certain.

*EDIT* 1man3letters After looking through my list again, I noticed Quan is listed as 5-5.
That should be 6-4, possibly even 7-3.
I'll call it 6-4 for now and think it over if I can get some more matches with Sup at WB.

 

[DJ L Toro]

blade charge might be punishable, but the blockstun is really strange. it's hard to hit that punishment window without practice.

 

[TheTetraSpirit]

blade charge might be punishable, but the blockstun is really strange. it's hard to hit that punishment window without practice.

It's mostly the range. If you're a few pixels too far, you'll take a few too many frames to get in to attempt to punish it.

 

[Konqrr]

I'll have to test the max range where ex fan punish whiffs. It's Kitana's fastest combo starter at 10 frames.

 

[Zoidberg747]

IMO Blade Charge is the best whiff punisher in the game due to its speed.

Baraka footsies are underrated.

100% agreed.

 

[EVB SomeCubanGuy]

IMO Blade Charge is the best whiff punisher in the game due to its speed.

Baraka footsies are underrated.

I personally think Elbow Dash beats it in terms of whiff punishing standing normals, but Blade Charge can hit airborne opponents, so I'd say it's a tossup between those 2.

Right now, I think it's 4-6, but when you think about it, it kinda has the hallmark of being a 5-5, mainly because he has no armor to get out of corner rape.
Spin also TOTALLY negates his jumpy bullshit as long as your reactions are on point.
I dunno for sure; I'd need more time with it offline to say for certain.

*EDIT* 1man3letters After looking through my list again, I noticed Quan is listed as 5-5.
That should be 6-4, possibly even 7-3.
I'll call it 6-4 for now and think it over if I can get some more matches with Sup at WB.

I'm actually inclined to agree with the Lao MU. Change it to 4-6 on mine as well.

Quan I'm gonna leave at 5-5 for now until I play some sets offline with either Supe or Dink. The only reason it's a 5-5 is because of Rune Trap. Baraka absolutely rapes Quan otherwise.

 

[Zoidberg747]

Right now, I think it's 4-6, but when you think about it, it kinda has the hallmark of being a 5-5, mainly because he has no armor to get out of corner rape.
Spin also TOTALLY negates his jumpy bullshit as long as your reactions are on point.
I dunno for sure; I'd need more time with it offline to say for certain.

*EDIT* 1man3letters After looking through my list again, I noticed Quan is listed as 5-5.
That should be 6-4, possibly even 7-3.
I'll call it 6-4 for now and think it over if I can get some more matches with Sup at WB.

EX Spin gets out of corner rape, doesnt it?

Spin negates everything but instant tele3. If he does that on point you cannot spin it(I have tried, the 3 will beat out spin).

I dont think it is 5-5 but 1man3letters you can change mine to 4-6. PL brings up some very good points.

 

[TheTetraSpirit]

EX Spin gets out of corner rape, doesnt it?

Spin negates everything but instant tele3. If he does that on point you cannot spin it(I have tried, the 3 will beat out spin).

I dont think it is 5-5 but 1man3letters you can change mine to 4-6. PL brings up some very good points.

Nope. EX Spin has no armor and is actually 3 frames slower anyway.
And if he just naked teleports, you deal with it accordingly. Uppercut, dash away and whiff punish, or call him on a spin by poking if you block an instant one.
If he tries to pull any shenanigans while jumping at you(Regular jump, dive kick, tele) Baraka's spin will beat everything. He'll even hit him and recover in time to avoid an EX tele.

 

[1man3letters]

TheTetraSpirit Zoidberg747 SomeCubanGuy
will edit your changes now

also that you guys mentioning the quan mu, im also starting to doubt rune trap does make it 5-5 but then again the rune trap is the rune trap so its hard to call i guess.
just on the KL talk also,id still keep mine at 4-6 even with the valid points PL brings up

 

[XXFleshtrapXX]

1man3letters you can change Kitana to 4-6 on my chart. I severely underestimated spark to stop zoning, that shit is so good.

Agreed, I'm seeing more and more that spark isn't nearly as useless as I originally suspected, personally if I have a decent life lead I use ex spark just inside fullscreen when my friend tries to trade projectiles at that range. 14% damage and +12 stun on hit if they are grounded, so if your spaced properly you can get a safe charge afterwards. That's 16% guaranteed and a possible 22%. The only reason I brought it up, is the obvious choice is always ex charge when people start throwing projectiles. Just shows that if your not quite fullscreen, and have meter to burn, I believe it's another option.

I've it before in an older post, I've closed out many rounds with the 14% ex spark does.

 

[Miss Kanzuki]

1man3letters you can change Kitana to 4-6 on my chart. I severely underestimated spark to stop zoning, that shit is so good.

I never personally believed it was 3-7. Not only blade spark to stop her zoning but chop chop into blade charge, on reaction, can keep her in check up close.

 

[Qwark28]

how do you guys view the concept of punishing failed attempts at punishing blade charge?

as in blade charge is x frames on block max range and they try to punish with something too slow, cant you d3/spin dat shit?

 

[EVB SomeCubanGuy]

how do you guys view the concept of punishing failed attempts at punishing blade charge?

as in blade charge is x frames on block max range and they try to punish with something too slow, cant you d3/spin dat shit?

Backdash and do another Blade Charge is always your best counter punish. A lot of the time your opponent will try to forward dash, D+4, which will beat a Spin, and because of the pushback, it's never really smart to do a Spin from that far away anyway because your opponent can whiff punish it. Same thing if you try to do a D+4 yourself afterwards, there's a chance your opponent will do an advancing mid that can possibly stuff your D+4. Backdashing and doing another Blade Charge is your best bet because it covers just about any option, whether it be a counterpoke, advancing mid, or a jump. Only things that beat it are fast advancing specials (which is the proper punish for a BC anyway) or the opponent blocking, but you can always just train yourself to react to an attempted normal punish with a Blade Charge.

 

[Evil_Riu48]

can you guys explain me why you feel the raiden matchup is 3-7?

 

[Zoidberg747]

can you guys explain me why you feel the raiden matchup is 3-7?

He can teleport out of most of our pressure. He can zone, he has just as good if not better footsies. We can't keep him in the corner, we can't really pressure him, he can force us to whiff things like blade charge by teleporting then punishing. He has better damage, better footsies, better projectile. This matchup really sucks if the raiden knows what they are doing( a la not teleporting except to whiff punish or through strings)

 

[Evil_Riu48]

He can teleport out of most of our pressure. He can zone, he has just as good if not better footsies. We can't keep him in the corner, we can't really pressure him, he can force us to whiff things like blade charge by teleporting then punishing. He has better damage, better footsies, better projectile. This matchup really sucks if the raiden knows what they are doing( a la not teleporting except to whiff punish or through strings)

i think baraka footsies are better in this matchup

i do not know but i feel this is a 5-5 because it comes down to spacing and pokes and baraka is better on both raiden will do what he does againt every character in the game which is trying to make you wiff attacks but i do not think this is such a big problem you just have to be more carefull about how you use your block strings

i really do not see anything that raiden can do to make this a 3-7 matchup but maybe i am missing something that make this matchup 4-6 but i really do not think i am missing something that would make it 3-7

 

[Zoidberg747]

i think baraka footsies are better in this matchup

i do not know but i feel this is a 5-5 because it comes down to spacing and pokes and baraka is better on both raiden will do what he does againt every character in the game which is trying to make you wiff attacks but i do not think this is such a big problem you just have to be more carefull about how you use your block strings

i really do not see anything that raiden can do to make this a 3-7 matchup but maybe i am missing something that make this matchup 4-6 but i really do not think i am missing something that would make it 3-7

5-5?

Im sorry but that is crazy. 4-6 is debateable, not even.

He can teleport out of ALL of our pressure! How can it be 5-5? There is no "use block strings carefully", he can teleport out of most of them. He has good footsies with f24 and his d4 isnt half bad.

It could be 4-6, but it is not even imo.

 

[Evil_Riu48]

5-5?

Im sorry but that is crazy. 4-6 is debateable, not even.

He can teleport out of ALL of our pressure! How can it be 5-5? There is no "use block strings carefully", he can teleport out of most of them. He has good footsies with f24 and his d4 isnt half bad.

It could be 4-6, but it is not even imo.

i think i will be doing some testing tonight

but maybe you can save be some time and tell me . . . can raiden teleport out of 221+2?