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Match-up Discussion The Kommunity Baraka MU Chart

TotteryManx

cr. HP Master
TotteryManx really nice chart. I disagree with maybe 3 MUs, which is pretty darn good lol.

I appreciate it mate. Everyone isn't going to see eye to eye 100% on charts, but after reviewing the other charts in this thread, I've noticed they all share a lot of similarities. I think this character community is one of the few that has it together.
 

Skylight1

Warrior
Why I'm glad I started picking up Baraka in the past 4 months. The dude has so many potential factors to be more than just your "average low tier character". Dude has way too much armor on some of the most stupid things! And his D3 and B+4 has the advantage on a block. Dude is a serious competitor and shouldn't be looked at as some low tier no body.
 

TotteryManx

cr. HP Master
Why I'm glad I started picking up Baraka in the past 4 months. The dude has so many potential factors to be more than just your "average low tier character". Dude has way too much armor on some of the most stupid things! And his D3 and B+4 has the advantage on a block. Dude is a serious competitor and shouldn't be looked at as some low tier no body.
Most people don't even know his frame traps because not many main him either. His d3 is good, but I believe he has one of the best d4's in the business. It lowers his hitbox and has ridiculous reach lol. I believe he is definitely tournament viable until you reach a top player that uses Kabal, Kenshi and the likes. Be aggressive!
 

Goldi

Warrior
En blade charge has armor. He's getting in lol. And his corner shenanigans are comparable to Cyrax resets and rune traps IMHO.

I've always thought he was more on the middle tier. Closer to Mileena and Quan because of that. His damage capabilities in the corner, and with blade charge to get there makes him a beast in the right hands.
 

XXFleshtrapXX

imma eat choo!
I've always felt Baraka is truly a character "Better than the sum of his parts", on paper he would seem pretty bad to some. But most of that can be attributed to his slow strings. But knowing how to play Baraka makes all the difference. Is he top tier? absolutely not, but I've always felt he had the potential to be low mid at least.

Example: On paper Cyber Sub would seem top tier just based on the tools he has. Parry, teleport, dive kick, projectile that rewards full combo on hit. But in reality once you get deeper into the game he's not that great. Which don't get me wrong, CSZ is another highly under-rated character he's just clearly not top tier, neither is Baraka.
 

EVB SomeCubanGuy

*Hissssssssssss*
**NEW MATCH-UP CHART MARCH 2013**

Cyber Sub Zero- 5-5
Cyrax - 4-6
Ermac - 6-4
Freddy - 4-6
Jade - 6-4
Jax - 4-6
Johnny Cage - 4-6
Kabal - 4-6
Kano - 6-4
Kenshi - 3-7
Kitana - 4-6
Kung Lao - 4-6
Liu Kang - 5-5
Mileena - 5-5
Nightwolf - 6-4
Noob - 5-5
Quan - 6-4
Raiden - 4-6
Rain - 4-6
Reptile - 4-6
Scorpion - 6-4
Sektor - 4-6
Shang - 5-5
Sheeva - 7-3
Sindel - 5-5
Skarlet - 4-6
Smoke - 4-6
Sonya - 4-6
Stryker - 5-5
Sub Zero - 4-6

If anyone has any questions to the changes let me know.
 

1man3letters

Alpha Tarkatan - Moderator
Moderator
**NEW MATCH-UP CHART MARCH 2013**

Cyber Sub Zero- 5-5
Cyrax - 4-6
Ermac - 6-4
Freddy - 4-6
Jade - 6-4
Jax - 4-6
Johnny Cage - 4-6
Kabal - 4-6
Kano - 6-4
Kenshi - 3-7
Kitana - 4-6
Kung Lao - 4-6
Liu Kang - 5-5
Mileena - 5-5
Nightwolf - 6-4
Noob - 5-5
Quan - 6-4
Raiden - 4-6
Rain - 4-6
Reptile - 4-6
Scorpion - 6-4
Sektor - 4-6
Shang - 5-5
Sheeva - 7-3
Sindel - 5-5
Skarlet - 4-6
Smoke - 4-6
Sonya - 4-6
Stryker - 5-5
Sub Zero - 4-6

If anyone has any questions to the changes let me know.
thank you sir,
ill edit in your new chart to the OP in a few,just running out to get food atm.
good few changes there,leaving baraka with only 1 3-7 mu.sure that will turn a few heads

but what stands out most to me is 4-6 kabal? :eek:
i would really like to know your train of thought on that,especially when you compare that number to the other 4-6s.
i cant really see where your c0ming from to be honest,i could see a 4-6 vs a kabal who cant iagb smart (not same pattern over and over) so you can blade charge them or who cant 2~NDC.like even our options for fighting him when were in close are piss poor,d3 doesnt get much vs kabal really,unsafe armor
kabals f4 wrecks baraka in so many situations and if we wana spin we have to catch him again which is full punish when goes wrong

(im not even going to touch liu 5-5 though lol,whatever number is put on that,its adv kang no doubt but its your chart not mine)

edit:also u have set vs ermac as a 6-4 like tetra said, i flip-flop on the mu alot but always end back at 5-5 lol
 

EVB SomeCubanGuy

*Hissssssssssss*
thank you sir,
ill edit in your new chart to the OP in a few,just running out to get food atm.
good few changes there,leaving baraka with only 1 3-7 mu.sure that will turn a few heads

but what stands out most to me is 4-6 kabal? :eek:
i would really like to know your train of thought on that,especially when you compare that number to the other 4-6s.
i cant really see where your c0ming from to be honest,i could see a 4-6 vs a kabal who cant iagb smart (not same pattern over and over) so you can blade charge them or who cant 2~NDC.like even our options for fighting him when were in close are piss poor,d3 doesnt get much vs kabal really,unsafe armor
kabals f4 wrecks baraka in so many situations and if we wana spin we have to catch him again which is full punish when goes wrong

(im not even going to touch liu 5-5 though lol,whatever number is put on that,its adv kang no doubt)

edit:also u have set vs ermac as a 6-4 like tetra said, i flip-flop on the mu alot but always end back at 5-5 lol
Lol yeah I figured that'd be the first one a lot of people would be like "wtf" on. Basically what it comes down to is Kabal has limited zoning. If they are iagbing incorrectly you can BC them, and even if they dont that's fine you just back them into the corner. Remember I'm adding in the fact that now Baraka has a safe vortex in the corner, so once Kabal is cornered he HAS to advance on you which is where you can attack and backdash BC or AA if he jumps beats out a lot of his options. And if he's touched now he has to guess or break which will leave him without meter. Same goes with A LOT of instant air projectile characters now. They eventually will put them selves in the corner which leaves them highly vulnerable to the vortex. The only exception is Kitana who still has an out with Square Wave. Kabal's pressure is still a problem, but if you can counterpoke well, you can still Spin out of a lot of his stuff with them being afraid to D3 you in between pressure. His F4 is highly full combo punishable if it whiffs. Just gotta keep him from getting in is the key.
 

1man3letters

Alpha Tarkatan - Moderator
Moderator
Lol yeah I figured that'd be the first one a lot of people would be like "wtf" on. Basically what it comes down to is Kabal has limited zoning. If they are iagbing incorrectly you can BC them, and even if they dont that's fine you just back them into the corner. Remember I'm adding in the fact that now Baraka has a safe vortex in the corner, so once Kabal is cornered he HAS to advance on you which is where you can attack and backdash BC or AA if he jumps beats out a lot of his options. And if he's touched now he has to guess or break which will leave him without meter. Same goes with A LOT of instant air projectile characters now. They eventually will put them selves in the corner which leaves them highly vulnerable to the vortex. The only exception is Kitana who still has an out with Square Wave. Kabal's pressure is still a problem, but if you can counterpoke well, you can still Spin out of a lot of his stuff with them being afraid to D3 you in between pressure. His F4 is highly full combo punishable if it whiffs. Just gotta keep him from getting in is the key.
he always had a safe vortex in corner before you found the sweep one man,max height f4 reset cant be armored, so you finding that shouldnt have any effect on any MU score imo,its a different way to get the same results bar a few %.
max height f4 reset and the sweep reset are pretty much on same execution plane aswell,thought personally id say the f2 after b4 is harder than getting a max height f4

yea your kinda agreed with me in a way there on a iagb, "if they are iaging incorrectly you can BC them" so if they iagb correctly no blade charge,your point of the kabal cornering himself still very much stands though.saw a option aswell and cant always be jumped on reaction to punish

vs pressure i was saying i dont think spin is good when everythings weighted up,i know damage is damge but 9% risking losing 30% and even if hits kabal is put away meaning you have to chase or let himself build breaker all the way to the corner.
also like i mentioned in other post 2~NDC which baraka has no answer for

true f4 is bad as fuck on whiff but again your taking much higher risks to seek damage compared to kabal.
you cant really backdash b3/f2 a f4 because kabal can kind of option select the last hit(1+2)/special like we do with f24slices b322slices. the 1+2 is -10 but baraka dont get much off -10 besides spin
so you have try a crossover to get anywhere when kabal player knows this iagb can be mixed up instead of the f4,saying that though the risk reward on just the option of iagb vs crossover is dead even damage wise.

on not letting him get in? i think alot would agree kabal gets in when he wants vs the whole cast
 

LaR

Apprentice
Lol yeah I figured that'd be the first one a lot of people would be like "wtf" on. Basically what it comes down to is Kabal has limited zoning. If they are iagbing incorrectly you can BC them, and even if they dont that's fine you just back them into the corner. Remember I'm adding in the fact that now Baraka has a safe vortex in the corner, so once Kabal is cornered he HAS to advance on you which is where you can attack and backdash BC or AA if he jumps beats out a lot of his options. And if he's touched now he has to guess or break which will leave him without meter. Same goes with A LOT of instant air projectile characters now. They eventually will put them selves in the corner which leaves them highly vulnerable to the vortex. The only exception is Kitana who still has an out with Square Wave. Kabal's pressure is still a problem, but if you can counterpoke well, you can still Spin out of a lot of his stuff with them being afraid to D3 you in between pressure. His F4 is highly full combo punishable if it whiffs. Just gotta keep him from getting in is the key.
looooooooooooool
 

EVB SomeCubanGuy

*Hissssssssssss*
he always had a safe vortex in corner before you found the sweep one man,max height f4 reset cant be armored, so you finding that shouldnt have any effect on any MU score imo,its a different way to get the same results bar a few %.
max height f4 reset and the sweep reset are pretty much on same execution plane aswell,thought personally id say the f2 after b4 is harder than getting a max height f4
Not necessarily because even if you did a max height F4, going for the F2, or mistiming the B3 by even 1 frame meant you can get armored. This shit in 100% inescapable.

yea your kinda agreed with me in a way there on a iagb, "if they are iaging incorrectly you can BC them" so if they iagb correctly no blade charge,your point of the kabal cornering himself still very much stands though.saw a option aswell and cant always be jumped on reaction to punish
Right, and even if they are iagb perfect 100% of the time, you can still dash block your way in so that's just more of an annoyance than anything.

vs pressure i was saying i dont think spin is good when everythings weighted up,i know damage is damge but 9% risking losing 30% and even if hits kabal is put away meaning you have to chase or let himself build breaker all the way to the corner.
also like i mentioned in other post 2~NDC which baraka has no answer for
Both Kenshi and Freddy can get 2~NDC'd, yet it has almost nothing to do with the matchups being the way they are. So why is it even an issue in this one? 2~NDC is put up on a pedestal way too often when it's really nothing more than a pressure tool, same as any other string except it gives him more advantage. Solution is simply wait til they use something else or wait til they fuck up simple as that.

true f4 is bad as fuck on whiff but again your taking much higher risks to seek damage compared to kabal.
you cant really backdash b3/f2 a f4 because kabal can kind of option select the last hit(1+2)/special like we do with f24slices b322slices. the 1+2 is -10 but baraka dont get much off -10 besides spin
so you have try a crossover to get anywhere when kabal player knows this iagb can be mixed up instead of the f4,saying that though the risk reward on just the option of iagb vs crossover is dead even damage wise.

on not letting him get in? i think alot would agree kabal gets in when he wants vs the whole cast
It's possible to interrupt F41+2 on whiff with a B3 or D4. Backdashing against Kabal's F4 fucks him up a lot. Eventually he has to resort to using F32 to catch you.
 

1man3letters

Alpha Tarkatan - Moderator
Moderator
Not necessarily because even if you did a max height F4, going for the F2, or mistiming the B3 by even 1 frame meant you can get armored. This shit in 100% inescapable.



Right, and even if they are iagb perfect 100% of the time, you can still dash block your way in so that's just more of an annoyance than anything.



Both Kenshi and Freddy can get 2~NDC'd, yet it has almost nothing to do with the matchups being the way they are. So why is it even an issue in this one? 2~NDC is put up on a pedestal way too often when it's really nothing more than a pressure tool, same as any other string except it gives him more advantage. Solution is simply wait til they use something else or wait til they fuck up simple as that.



It's possible to interrupt F41+2 on whiff with a B3 or D4. Backdashing against Kabal's F4 fucks him up a lot. Eventually he has to resort to using F32 to catch you.
yea of course if you fuck it up it can be armored lol but if you fuck up your vortex,wake up attack and/or putting yourself in corner and kabal iagb his way across the screen

so your saying vs kabal zoning,just dash block,its not a problem???

2~NDC is a issue because baraka has no answer what so ever to it.
wait for them to do something else? so you give them the option to mixup you to death or what even if they 2~NDC you to death
Momentum ;)

f4 has better hitbox than f3
 

LaR

Apprentice
Not necessarily because even if you did a max height F4, going for the F2, or mistiming the B3 by even 1 frame meant you can get armored. This shit in 100% inescapable.



Right, and even if they are iagb perfect 100% of the time, you can still dash block your way in so that's just more of an annoyance than anything.



Both Kenshi and Freddy can get 2~NDC'd, yet it has almost nothing to do with the matchups being the way they are. So why is it even an issue in this one? 2~NDC is put up on a pedestal way too often when it's really nothing more than a pressure tool, same as any other string except it gives him more advantage. Solution is simply wait til they use something else or wait til they fuck up simple as that.



It's possible to interrupt F41+2 on whiff with a B3 or D4. Backdashing against Kabal's F4 fucks him up a lot. Eventually he has to resort to using F32 to catch you.
Kabal out zones the shit of Baraka even if you '' just dash block in'' then what?. Your best normal is d4 and that can be easily stuffed by f4 or f23 and even if you do land a d4 Kabal has the option to flash parry. Baraka has no continuous pressure unless you get a lucky jump in punch. Also spin and blade charge full are combo punishable by Kabal unless he does a max range blade charge. No way in hell this match is only SLIGHT advantage to kabal. And i forgot to mention you have no safe way out of Kabal's pressure.
 

EVB SomeCubanGuy

*Hissssssssssss*
Could be a 3-7, but to me at least it's starting to feel closer to a 4-6 than 3-7. I just don't have as much trouble with Kabals than Kenshis anymore.
 

1man3letters

Alpha Tarkatan - Moderator
Moderator
Could be a 3-7, but to me at least it's starting to feel closer to a 4-6 than 3-7. I just don't have as much trouble with Kabals than Kenshis anymore.
to be fair main,just because ya doing a bit better in a mu doesnt directly translate to the mu numbers.
remember the one "rule" of this thread thats in the op...
tools vs tools, not who your playing. as theres too many variables the other way.
does the kabal player know the baraka mu?
does the baraka player know kabals NDC data?
can the kabal 2~ndc back to back or iagb correctly?
and so on and so forth...
tools vs tools kabal is at a heavy heavy advantage, the char with undisputed #1 tools vs baraka's tools.
human error can be taken into account sure but not as a main talking point

anyways its your chart so it near nor there really,have edited it in to OP now
 

EVB SomeCubanGuy

*Hissssssssssss*
All MU charts are opinion based so it's w/e man. This is just how I feel personally and from my experiences as a player. And also I play against Kabal mains who play me a lot and our matches go back and forth, so it's not like I'm playing random Kabals who don't know the matchup. Same goes for the rest of the cast. Advantage is advantage regardless, and everyone knows this MU is in Kabal's favor so there's not much to argue really.