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Match-up Discussion Johnny Cage Mu chart

Owerbart

Owerbart

I miss you
Adding to the Ermac matchup, I'll say that Cage doesn't count with his frametraps because F33EXfireball whiffs on Ermac.
 
crosstalk

crosstalk

Kombatant
CrazyBread said:
Definitely agree with his MU for Kitana.

A little confuzzled on the Jax and Sonya MU's and I've got good experience with Sonya, even though it's not high level play, it is offline. I also thought that Jax really couldn't be jailed by Cage's f3 pressure because of the little chip damage and the fact that Jax will gain meter and be able to armor out, really has me wondering why isn't the MU 5-5? Is it Cage's low hitbox or something? Im just not totally understanding why the odds are in favor of Johnny. Is it the little things like zoning (Jax is a better zoner), frame advantage or aaing? Please someone help a sista out!
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If you're blocking and taking chip damage, you build no meter, but your opponent does. Cage's hitbox is a big problem for Jax. He can full combo punish his f41 string, and I think the only strings that work on Cage crouch blocking are 22 and f22, which really limits Jax's pressure options. Jax has to seriously play on point in order to outspace Cage (he would want to get him in the range of f4). Jax's armor definitely helps him against pressure and he has some meterless options as well (d1 gg, f4) but they can be risky. He has trouble building meter once Cage starts pressuring him. Cage also avoids ground pounds by using d4, forceball, and shadow kick. Overall: Jax's zoning won't be good enough to keep out Cage, Cage's low hitbox avoids almost all of Jax's offense, Cage has the ability to avoid ground pounds, and Cage makes it very hard for Jax to build meter once he starts pressuring him.
 
YOMI DJT

YOMI DJT

LIn Kuei Champion
i think cage destroys mileena 7-3
i still think cage kitana is 5-5 maybe 6-4
cage liu 5-5
I still think ermac gets destroyed by cage 7-3. ermac has to jump to win vs cage I think. without jumping ermac will be destroyed his zoning isn't good enough.
 
CrazyBread

CrazyBread

Princess Diana
crosstalk said:
If you're blocking and taking chip damage, you build no meter, but your opponent does. Cage's hitbox is a big problem for Jax. He can full combo punish his f41 string, and I think the only strings that work on Cage crouch blocking are 22 and f22, which really limits Jax's pressure options. Jax has to seriously play on point in order to outspace Cage (he would want to get him in the range of f4). Jax's armor definitely helps him against pressure and he has some meterless options as well (d1 gg, f4) but they can be risky. He has trouble building meter once Cage starts pressuring him. Cage also avoids ground pounds by using d4, forceball, and shadow kick. Overall: Jax's zoning won't be good enough to keep out Cage, Cage's low hitbox avoids almost all of Jax's offense, Cage has the ability to avoid ground pounds, and Cage makes it very hard for Jax to build meter once he starts pressuring him.
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Thanks for clarifying helped a bunch!
 
CURBOLICOUS

CURBOLICOUS

Cage ban wagon?
MITDJT said:
sure i counterpick, but not always. Went scorpion vs kabal( i doubt anyone would do that unless they mained scorpion lol), played lao/kabal at evo with liu( ppl call that 6 4 or worse so i'll just say a bad mu), went cage vs pig's kenshi at anaheim(very close fight), went scorpion vs detroits smoke at evo. Played reptile vs king's sonya at evo. I've played tyrants jax with kitana and even went jade/rain on my bros rax. So i'm not just "always counterpick guy", second you can hit crossups with liu's standing 2s. Also cage better not get cross up happy, that's where i make the read with a njp and full combo you, but like i said, we need to play. You got to convince me.
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If I time a jip on a cross up your not getting a standing 2 anti trust me dude ive tried online/offline. Technically speaking no d1/standing 1/2 of any character will work if you time the JIP correctly and ive got that down. @gga wafflez please tell this guy how good I am at stuff cross over anti airs. Only garanteed anti air cross overs are jax's grab, rax's grab, ex moves like ex nomad dash or shoulder charge or anything else thats faster than 12 frames and thats prolly it. NJP will work though because for some reason it has priority over jip. Only thing that beats it is a instant jump kick which is not a thing people usually do.
 
CURBOLICOUS

CURBOLICOUS

Cage ban wagon?
J360 said:
CSZ cage is 5-5, after playing sets with both CURBOLICOUS and GGA Dizzy i am utterly convinced that it is a 5-5. Cages down 4 is vital in this matchup as you cannot parry his advance after it hits. But the parry changes the entire meta game of the fight and forces both characters to constantly stay guessing. It takes cage just as many good reads as it takes CSZ to win this match, csz has high damage without meter as well.
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I think its prolly 6-4. Idk about 5-5. The reads CSZ make only grant him little damage while cage can get a full combo and if cage guesses wrong he doesnt take that much damage.
 
Owerbart

Owerbart

I miss you
Denzell said:
i think cage destroys mileena 7-3
i still think cage kitana is 5-5 maybe 6-4
cage liu 5-5
I still think ermac gets destroyed by cage 7-3. ermac has to jump to win vs cage I think. without jumping ermac will be destroyed his zoning isn't good enough.
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I think it is. Also, Johnny has no really good ways to get in, since EX Shadow Kick will take Ermac full screen.
 
Owerbart

Owerbart

I miss you
Mikemetroid said:
Wrong, good Ermac players will see Red Shadow Kick from full screen and lift your ass when you get close.
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I'm talking if Johnny tries to bypass forceballs and pushes.

Also, I can't think why Cage would throw an EX Shadowkick if there's no projectile. Also, good Ermac players won't lift you before connecting a 12 or 31 to get more damage.
 
Mikemetroid

Mikemetroid

Who hired this guy, WTF?
Lead Moderator
Owerbart said:
I'm talking if Johnny tries to bypass forceballs and pushes.

Also, I can't think why Cage would throw an EX Shadowkick if there's no projectile. Also, good Ermac players won't lift you before connecting a 12 or 31 to get more damage.
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Yolo Cage's would.

and in a situation like that you wouldn't be able to get the 12/31.
 
YOMI DJT

YOMI DJT

LIn Kuei Champion
Owerbart said:
I'm talking if Johnny tries to bypass forceballs and pushes.

Also, I can't think why Cage would throw an EX Shadowkick if there's no projectile. Also, good Ermac players won't lift you before connecting a 12 or 31 to get more damage.[/quote ermac zoning is alright but not enough to keep johnny out. its horrible for mac i think. this nerfed mac is horrible vs johnny 7-3
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ForeverKing

ForeverKing

Patreon.com/MK_ForeverKing
Idk about losing to Sonya, alot of people argue whether the matchup is 5-5 or 6-4 in Cage's favor, I've never really seen anyone think it's in Sonya's favor. I personally think it is a 5-5, they both have tools that work well vs eachother
 
GuamoKun

GuamoKun

I Break Hearts, Not Combos
CSZ can sort of do bomb gimmicks and stuff against Cage since Cage doesn't have a teleport or air mobility move that's useful.
 
RiBBz22

RiBBz22

TYM's Confirmed Prophet/Time-Traveler
FOREVER KING said:
Idk about losing to Sonya, alot of people argue whether the matchup is 5-5 or 6-4 in Cage's favor, I've never really seen anyone think it's in Sonya's favor. I personally think it is a 5-5, they both have tools that work well vs eachother
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I agree. Sonya is better from far away but most of her tools are used to help her get in and that is exactly what Cage wants. Obviously she is very good up close too so I think it would be hard to give a straight up MU advantage to either character. They are both awesome and have to respect each others' games.
 
Dizzy

Dizzy

False Information Police Officer
Elder God
NetherRealm Studios
I agree with CSZ 5-5. At arena J360 and were able to run the match a lot and I was able to test some stuff and the mind games behind the match and the mixups.

I also agree with 4-6 sonyas favor as I said in the Sonya MU chart that Death made.
 
NYCj360

NYCj360

i Use a modded cyber now
GGA Dizzy said:
I agree with CSZ 5-5. At arena J360 and were able to run the match a lot and I was able to test some stuff and the mind games behind the match and the mixups.

I also agree with 4-6 sonyas favor as I said in the Sonya MU chart that Death made.
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you're the only cage ever to exploit my 211+2 also. Consistently at that
 
Owerbart

Owerbart

I miss you
I don't agree. Ermac's zoning is quite a different kind of zoning. Remember than 1 guess and a throw sends you back to fullscreen. Also, I repeat, Ermac's raw damage is fearsome against Cage. Also, Cage can't use frametraps because they whiff like with reptile.

On a sidenote, I think people are underrating Ermac's upclose game.
 
ForeverKing

ForeverKing

Patreon.com/MK_ForeverKing
Owerbart said:
I don't agree. Ermac's zoning is quite a different kind of zoning. Remember than 1 guess and a throw sends you back to fullscreen. Also, I repeat, Ermac's raw damage is fearsome against Cage. Also, Cage can't use frametraps because they whiff like with reptile.

On a sidenote, I think people are underrating Ermac's upclose game.
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Cage can still do 13 EX forceballs on Ermac and Reptile instead of f33 EX forceballs
 
Hanzer0

Hanzer0

Wanna order chinese later?
I would argue that cage beats liu 6-4.
Sure Kang can zone and has enough footsies to keep him away for a while. Once cage gets in (he will), kang has VERY little to escape. Kang's d3 can't interrupt f3 after a certain point because he lifts his leg up and then he's blown up for trying. Kang has a short d4, i think cages d1 has more range. His d1 is terrible for poking out at 10 frames. Parry is extremely risky. Also his big hitbox means all sorts of pressure.
I play kang and I'd like to hear some arguments as to why it's 5-5
 
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