Match-up Discussion Johnny Cage Mu chart

[YOMI MITYEAP]

Aww screw it, i can't stay away from mu charts and i feel i should make a cage mu chart and i'll tag in some high lvl cages and get their input on it as well
GGA Dizzy
Claude VonStroke
Mikemetroid
Denzell
CURBOLICOUS
A F0xy Grampa
Maxter
can't tag em all lol so here goes the list:
Scorpion: 7-3
Sub-Zero: 4-6
Reptile: 6-4
Ermac: 6-4
Noob: 6-4
Smoke: 6-4
Rain: 5-5
Mileena: 6-4
Kitana: 5-5
Jade: 6-4
Skarlet: 5-5
Sektor: 5-5
Cyrax: 4-6
Cyber Sub: 5-5
Kenshi: 3-7
Freddy: 3-7
Sindel: 6-4
Sonya: 4-6
Jax: 6-4
Stryker: 6-4
Liu Kang: 5-5
Kung Lao: 6-4
Kano: 7-3
Nightwolf: 7-3
Kabal: 3-7
Baraka: 6-4
Shang Tsung: 5-5
Quan Chi: 7-3
Raiden: 6-4
Sheeva: 7-3

 

[Espio]

I like it, I have a really hard time dealing with Johnny Cage with Sheeva so I can definitely see that match up being that bad, nice chart.

 

[YOMI MITYEAP]

I like it, I have a really hard time dealing with Johnny Cage with Sheeva so I can definitely see that match up. Very nice.

thanks, appreciate the support, i dnt think there is really like a set cage mu chart since there has been so many lol, so trying to get one that the cage players and others will enjoy and respect.

 

[G4S Killin Natzees]

Cage beats reptile?

 

[xKhaoTik]

MITDJT you have a mu chart about every character huh? Lol

 

[cR WoundCowboy]

Maaan... Cage doesn't beat shang. He has everything he needs to fight against him.

 

[YOMI MITYEAP]

Cage beats reptile?

yes indeed, reptile has slow normals and has a tough time escaping cage's pressure. This is from experience, reptile does have great footsies and can space ppl well, but cage has great footsies as well and when he gets in and your best armor move is an unsafe slide and you have a trash d3......... then sometimes you get stuck or you could risk the dash......... but that could lead to you getting blocked and punished accordingly. Reptile having slow normals is what kills him vs cage.

 

[YOMI MITYEAP]

Maaan... Cage doesn't beat shang. He has everything he needs to fight against him.

hmm i'm kind of leaning towards what tom said and etc., but we'll fight at SCR and get an evaluation on the mu. Liu shang still 5-5 though haha.

 

[YOMI MITYEAP]

MITDJT you have a mu chart about every character huh? Lol

probably so lmao, i could make one for every character, I've used 15 chars total in all my tournaments LMAO.

 

[cR WoundCowboy]

hmm i'm kind of leaning towards what tom said and etc., but we'll fight at SCR and get an evaluation on the mu. Liu shang still 5-5 though haha.

Lol yea. But liu should make this even clearer because he can zone shang and has a good up close game. Cage has nothing at a distance besides random shadow kicks.

 

[cR WoundCowboy]

Also MITDJT we played this mu during evo. I dont remember it being in ur favor.

 

[YOMI MITYEAP]

Lol yea. But liu should make this even clearer because he can zone shang and has a good up close game. Cage has nothing at a distance besides random shadow kicks.

have u seen my forceball zoning/trade game my friend? haha I use it all the time to compensate for his trash projectile, also liu has better zoning, but up close cage rapes. You can run a gauntlet vs the vegas crew since we all play cage at a high lvl. If tom brady goes to scr, u can run it with him too and run it with satsui, so you get to play like 6 cages haha. That'll help alot in determining the mu.

 

[Big Pampering]

why does he lose against cyrax?

 

[YOMI MITYEAP]

Also MITDJT we played this mu during evo. I dont remember it being in ur favor.

you know i hate casuals woundcowboy lol how could you forget? lol just messing with you, but I'll play it with you again. I actually learned alot about shang from evo to dallas to now. I'm going to change my chart to 5-5 though since I respect your opinion, but rest assured i plan on changing your mind .

 

[YOMI MITYEAP]

why does he lose against cyrax?

i've ran this mu a bunch of times with denzell and krayzie/dizzy/curbo agree cage loses. The big thing isn't just rax's damage, but his zoning/footsies. His d4 is going to make it difficult to get in, add a buzzsaw you can't duck and an AA grab and cage is going to have to play with some very stern patience. Up close rax has no armor, but d1 ex ragdoll gets him out of pressure for free bcuz the cancel advantage on d1 ex ragdoll is huge, so it'll push cage out the way. For cage to win in this mu when the rax is playing it correctly, u have to time everything you do so precisely and patiently, that you dnt just get to play the style you'd want to play with cage, and that'd be dodge a few projectiles and get in and murder them. The other bad thing is, rax has the stupidest mixups/ rushdown too, so if he winds up on top of cage, he can do just as much work up close. If rax was just a zoning character, i'd call it 5-5 for sure, but with his superb footsies/zoning and his rushdown, it gives cage problems.

 

[Big Pampering]

i've ran this mu a bunch of times with denzell and krayzie/dizzy/curbo agree cage loses. The big thing isn't just rax's damage, but his zoning/footsies. His d4 is going to make it difficult to get in, add a buzzsaw you can't duck and an AA grab and cage is going to have to play with some very stern patience. Up close rax has no armor, but d1 ex ragdoll gets him out of pressure for free bcuz the cancel advantage on d1 ex ragdoll is huge, so it'll push cage out the way. For cage to win in this mu when the rax is playing it correctly, u have to time everything you do so precisely and patiently, that you dnt just get to play the style you'd want to play with cage, and that'd be dodge a few projectiles and get in and murder them. The other bad thing is, rax has the stupidest mixups/ rushdown too, so if he winds up on top of cage, he can do just as much work up close. If rax was just a zoning character, i'd call it 5-5 for sure, but with his superb footsies/zoning and his rushdown, it gives cage problems.

so you would agree cyrax top 5? also good matchup chart I agree with the lao matchup, people need to stop underrating cage, he has 3 horrible matchups and 2 losing ones. but he pretty much destroys the rest of the cast with his rushdown and footsies, I mean why does a character like cage even need a b3 or ex nutpunch lol.

 

[YOMI MITYEAP]

so you would agree cyrax top 5? also good matchup chart I agree with the lao matchup, people need to stop underrating cage, he has 3 horrible matchups and 2 losing ones. but he pretty much destroys the rest of the cast with his rushdown and footsies, I mean why does a character like cage even need a b3 or ex nutpunch lol.

um, i would have no problem putting rax as top 5 or very close to it. Also i think the only reason cage isn't top 5 is bcuz sonya is just a cage with a good projectile haha so she got the top 5 spot instead. Also she has a safe armor move that leads to a full combo and can cancel her low pokes into ms lol.

 

[A F0xy Grampa]

why does he lose against cyrax?

Cage is a very meter dependent character, Cyrax does so much damage that it makes it risky to use his meter as often in his rushdown which opens up more opportunities for Cyrax to interupt, Cyrax also has a 9f move than can be hitconfirmed into a net to use to interupt as well.

Its also pretty hard to whiff punish Cyraxs D4 compared to someone like Sonya IMO.

He's got enough to keep him out, and a few things to worry about while he's in.

Basically the risk/reward is always in Cyraxs favor.

 

[HGTV DrFlash44]

Ok guys this is how the quan matchup is imo. I think that I am personally not aloud to comment in this matchup as it is my most played matchup as I play HGTV Soapboxfan all the time. I know this matchup like the back of my hand (I've never got this expression no one knows the back of their hand that well, yet you get the point). Because I play this matchup so much it feels like a 5-5 to me, yet I always say that it's a 4-6. LBSH it's a 3-7. Once quan is under pressure he is fucked. He can't armor out, because his armor is too slow and is even punishable on wiff. He can't poke out, because his only good poke is d3, which because of his shit normals he has nothing to follow it up with. And when quan is cornered it's even worse. The fact that after a blocked f33b3 midscreen cage basically get's a free blocked f3, because of Quan's d3 wiffing is really fucked up. Despite this I will still say that it's a 6-4 and I would be very impressed if any cage besides soapbox (because we play all the time) or Dizzy (god) could beat me in a serious offline set in this matchup even though it is a 3-7 f you look at the facts. *cough cough 4-6*

 

[Glass Sword]

Honestly I think Johnny Cage beats Scorpion worse than 7-3. I have been called out about it before and told I am wrong, but here is why...
1. Johnny Cage dominates the up close game. This is especially bad for Scorpion because he does not have any meterless escape options besides down 1 against Johnny Cage. I need to do more research on to it but there are times when you try to get out with enhanced takedown and you will go under Cage and end up on the other side. Also enhanced spear whiffs on Cage if he is ducking so it is a risk to use it on a savvy Cage.
2. Meter, meter, and meter since Johnny Cage gets so much easy pressure on Scorpion he has a lot of meter at ALL times. This makes Scorpions primary tool the vortex that much harder to pull off. You have to catch Cage twice in it most of the time before you can ever get into the 50/50. Not to mention the only meter Scorpion is going to be getting is from taking damage.
3.Spacing and footsies are skewed significantly in Cages favor since he does not even have to open Scorpion up he just has to touch him even if Scorpion blocks Cage is in and the battle has turned for the worst for the Ninja. Johnny has a better walk speed and fast far reaching normals which Scorpion lacks. I'm not going to even acknowledged jumping at Cage as an option.
4. Hell fire becomes a risk in this match up since Johnny Cage never has to jump against Scorpion EVER (well if a hell fire will kill, but that is a given.) Johnny Cage is more than willing to eat a few hell fires to get into Scorpions grill and start throwing out knees.
Honestly the only way Scorpion should win is if he goes into vortex asap and guesses right every time.
MITDJT I remember you once said you would just space out Cage's with back 2 and forward 4 into vortex, but that was back at EVO. You clearly just had better fundamentals and spacing than whatever Johnny Cages you were fighting. There is no way and hell that Scorpion vs. Cage is just a 7-3 when Cage has this many advantages.

 

[YOMI MITYEAP]

Ok guys this is how the quan matchup is imo. I think that I am personally not aloud to comment in this matchup as it is my most played matchup as I play HGTV Soapboxfan all the time. I know this matchup like the back of my hand (I've never got this expression no one knows the back of their hand that well, yet you get the point). Because I play this matchup so much it feels like a 5-5 to me, yet I always say that it's a 4-6. LBSH it's a 3-7. Once quan is under pressure he is fucked. He can't armor out, because his armor is too slow and is even punishable on wiff. He can't poke out, because his only good poke is d3, which because of his shit normals he has nothing to follow it up with. And when quan is cornered it's even worse. The fact that after a blocked f33b3 midscreen cage basically get's a free blocked f3, because of Quan's d3 wiffing is really fucked up. Despite this I will still say that it's a 6-4 and I would be very impressed if any cage besides soapbox (because we play all the time) or Dizzy (god) could beat me in a serious offline set in this matchup even though it is a 3-7 f you look at the facts. *cough cough 4-6*

haha well said. The more input the better.

 

[A F0xy Grampa]

Ok guys this is how the quan matchup is imo. I think that I am personally not aloud to comment in this matchup as it is my most played matchup as I play HGTV Soapboxfan all the time. I know this matchup like the back of my hand (I've never got this expression no one knows the back of their hand that well, yet you get the point). Because I play this matchup so much it feels like a 5-5 to me, yet I always say that it's a 4-6. LBSH it's a 3-7. Once quan is under pressure he is fucked. He can't armor out, because his armor is too slow and is even punishable on wiff. He can't poke out, because his only good poke is d3, which because of his shit normals he has nothing to follow it up with. And when quan is cornered it's even worse. The fact that after a blocked f33b3 midscreen cage basically get's a free blocked f3, because of Quan's d3 wiffing is really fucked up. Despite this I will still say that it's a 6-4 and I would be very impressed if any cage besides soapbox (because we play all the time) or Dizzy (god) could beat me in a serious offline set in this matchup even though it is a 3-7 f you look at the facts. *cough cough 4-6*

Would you say your Quan is Dink or Hidan good?

Cause I walk over Quans with Cage

 

[Under_The_Mayo]

HGTV DrFlash44 is 100% right on this one. Quan Cage is 3 - 7. It's bad.

 

[HGTV DrFlash44]

Would you say your Quan is Dink or Hidan good?

Cause I walk over Quans with Cage

You'll have to wait til nec to see how good I am

 

[A F0xy Grampa]

The only way Cage should lose to Quan is ignorance, which is probably abundent among Cage players.