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Match-up Discussion Johnny Cage Mu chart

Jade does lose 6-4, but it may be 7-3 because I find that EX Glow gets stuffed so much more in that matchup, which means she is fucked.
I'll say 6-4 Cage though.

Kitana I have at 5-5, but it may be 6-4 Kitana
sounds good, i got cage kit 5-5 bcuz up close cage wrecks her, but if kitana is away she wins the battle. If kitana had a armor wakeup, it'd be 6-4 kit easily without a doubt.
 

Maxter

Kombatant
hmm cyrax losing to cage, that's the only one I'd like to ask about since I thought you'd have it even or rax favor. Interested on smoke cage being a 5-5 as well, thought all cages had that 6-4, but maybe not. I could see that being a 5-5 though since smoke has stupid damage, great pokes, and superb footsies.
It is just knowledge about both characters, i know cyrax too much, and i know some think its on cyrax's favor, cyrax big hitbox and no armor put cage on advantage on the meter building once cage is in, cage just need patience on this match, Rax only source to get out of his pressure is his D1, which is a pretty good poke, once of the best actually, but still this just leave cage at neutral distance and rax has to think about doing a standing 1, cage will hit him with his d3 and be in again, its hard for cage to get in on rax i know, with bombs nets and saws but this is not enough to beat cage, cage will always be on defensive mode at jumping distance and its hard for rax to guess a jumping punch on him to reset him.
this match could go either way really, based on the players experience with both chars, and against both chars.
 

Owerbart

I miss you
MITDJT Looks pretty good! I play Cage myself and this seems accurate, just 2 questions:

Why you have Sonya as a bad MU? I'll agree with Maxter and say that it's a 5-5.

I defended him in your Kang MU, and now I'll try again in this one: I really see Ermac as 5-5 vs Cage. I played this MU since day 1. From my experience Johnny has a little bit more difficult against Ermac to get in. Max range tkp doesn't have an efficient response, and one guess and Mac throws him back to square 1. Also Ermac's raw damage needs just one combo to get the life lead or to seal the deal. As long as Cage doesn't have meter (which I know, won't happen that much) Ermac can throw balls all day.

On the other side, if Cage gets in then its close to master rape. d1 can get punished by f33 nutpunch Ermac's only options are to get a d1 and make its best to get out being in +1, or get d3 on crouchblock.

On a sidenote, I feel that Cage wins to Jax by more than 6-4.

Cheers.
 
MITDJT Cage beats liu and he DOES NOT lose to sub
going to have to give me some legit input to change my mind bro, u should've came to dallas so i could've played your cage........ and i'm keeping sub cage at the 4-6 mark since cage has to play in a way that he usually doesn't, but I wouldn't go completely away from putting it a 5-5 since I have tons of xp in that mu.
 

sub_on_dubs

Online Scrub Lord
Jade does lose 6-4, but it may be 7-3 because I find that EX Glow gets stuffed so much more in that matchup, which means she is fucked.
I'll say 6-4 Cage though.

Kitana I have at 5-5, but it may be 6-4 Kitana
I wish you could make it to more tournaments. People have been talking about how good your Kitana has been lately. It's a shame.:(
 
It is just knowledge about both characters, i know cyrax too much, and i know some think its on cyrax's favor, cyrax big hitbox and no armor put cage on advantage on the meter building once cage is in, cage just need patience on this match, Rax only source to get out of his pressure is his D1, which is a pretty good poke, once of the best actually, but still this just leave cage at neutral distance and rax has to think about doing a standing 1, cage will hit him with his d3 and be in again, its hard for cage to get in on rax i know, with bombs nets and saws but this is not enough to beat cage, cage will always be on defensive mode at jumping distance and its hard for rax to guess a jumping punch on him to reset him.
this match could go either way really, based on the players experience with both chars, and against both chars.
agreed, i might change it to 5-5 since it all depends on where the characters are positioned.
 

Mr. Mileena

Champion
I wish you could make it to more tournaments. People have been talking about how good your Kitana has been lately. It's a shame.:(
Haha, thanks. But sadly, I don't know when my next one will be.
Plus, I choke under pressure. I started playing again for fun, and who knows, I might go all Sindel should I make a future tournament. All I know is, I'm 100% making Evo this year since I'll be 21 by then. lol
 

CURBOLICOUS

Cage ban wagon?
going to have to give me some legit input to change my mind bro, u should've came to dallas so i could've played your cage........ and i'm keeping sub cage at the 4-6 mark since cage has to play in a way that he usually doesn't, but I wouldn't go completely away from putting it a 5-5 since I have tons of xp in that mu.
It doesn't matter how cage has to change the way he has to play. Kabal has to change when he plays KL and Raiden but that doesn't change the MU numbers. MU's are about a characters tools and the way the fight and how they get in/ get damage. Sub doesn't get damage unless hes actually in but its hard because of cage's dash and f3. Liu kang on the other hand has a big hitbox, can get jumped on all day, and fireballs at a certain distance get him in trouble because cage can red kick and get in for free because he has no wakeups.
 

LEGEND

YES!
i could agree with 6-4 cage over Liu as well. Once you know how to get past Liu's zoning there isnt anything he can do that you cant do better, and for more damage

Blades hates this MU
 
MITDJT Looks pretty good! I play Cage myself and this seems accurate, just 2 questions:

Why you have Sonya as a bad MU? I'll agree with Maxter and say that it's a 5-5.

I defended him in your Kang MU, and now I'll try again in this one: I really see Ermac as 5-5 vs Cage. I played this MU since day 1. From my experience Johnny has a little bit more difficult against Ermac to get in. Max range tkp doesn't have an efficient response, and one guess and Mac throws him back to square 1. Also Ermac's raw damage needs just one combo to get the life lead or to seal the deal. As long as Cage doesn't have meter (which I know, won't happen that much) Ermac can throw balls all day.

On the other side, if Cage gets in then its close to master rape. d1 can get punished by f33 nutpunch Ermac's only options are to get a d1 and make its best to get out being in +1, or get d3 on crouchblock.

On a sidenote, I feel that Cage wins to Jax by more than 6-4.

Cheers.
The big thing with sonya is her d4/armor/instant dive kick/projectile. She has a swift projectile that cage has to duck and avoid consitently. Her d4 has great reach and she can cancel it into ms to f+1 for pressure and meter build. Her armor divekick keeps cage from pressuring like he usually would and her instant divekick is swift so he always has to watch that. Basically she is a better johnny cage, dizzy had it 6-4 sonya too so i took that into account as well and i have alot of xp vs cage with sonya at home vs denzell.
As far as mac goes, if he had his old force push, it'd be 5-5 without a doubt. The big issue for mac is his pokes really dnt help him get away from cage and he has a big hitbox.
I feel jax can still play footsies with cage and zone him some unlike a character like kano, which gives him a chance to make things happen.
Also thanks for the input bro, I'm trying to get everyone in on this haha.
 
i could agree with 6-4 cage over Liu as well. Once you know how to get past Liu's zoning there isnt anything he can do that you cant do better, and for more damage

Blades hates this MU
i think the big thing in that mu is liu has long reaching/safe normals that make it harder for cage to just get in, up close he does do work, but liu's footsies help him greatly vs cage. I'll keep it 5-5 for now, maybe i'll change it later though.
 

crosstalk

Kombatant
I like this chart, it's pretty similar to the one Claude posted with a couple of differences. One MU I'm wondering about is the CSZ MU. I don't have a ton of experience in this, but isn't the risk-reward more in Cage's favor? If CSZ gets a parry off, it's what? 10%? If he whiffs a parry, can't Cage full combo punish? Same with CSZ's dive kicks. A whiffed dive kick would allow you to punish or start pressure. CSZ won't be able to keep Cage out so the guessing game is going to start at some point, which Cage seems to win. With this in mind, this seems like it could seem more like a 6-4 MU for Cage. Again, I haven't played any high level CSZ, so this is all theorycrafting.
 
It doesn't matter how cage has to change the way he has to play. Kabal has to change when he plays KL and Raiden but that doesn't change the MU numbers. MU's are about a characters tools and the way the fight and how they get in/ get damage. Sub doesn't get damage unless hes actually in but its hard because of cage's dash and f3. Liu kang on the other hand has a big hitbox, can get jumped on all day, and fireballs at a certain distance get him in trouble because cage can red kick and get in for free because he has no wakeups.
plz dnt jump at liu lol 8 frame standing 2s all day. Also it's all about timing and spacing with liu's fbs, and liu has long reaching normals/all neutral on block. We're going to have to run this mu bro, i wonder what dizzy thinks, I'll tag him GGA Dizzy. Also sub I'm going to have to run that mu more with denzell, i wouldn't count it out being a 5-5.
 
I like this chart, it's pretty similar to the one Claude posted with a couple of differences. One MU I'm wondering about is the CSZ MU. I don't have a ton of experience in this, but isn't the risk-reward more in Cage's favor? If CSZ gets a parry off, it's what? 10%? If he whiffs a parry, can't Cage full combo punish? Same with CSZ's dive kicks. A whiffed dive kick would allow you to punish or start pressure. CSZ won't be able to keep Cage out so the guessing game is going to start at some point, which Cage seems to win. With this in mind, this seems like it could seem more like a 6-4 MU for Cage. Again, I haven't played any high level CSZ, so this is all theorycrafting.
good analysis, i hear cages call it 5-5 all the time since they can't just f3, but cage does have good low pokes and csz can't just spam parries and expect to win. I'll change that to 6-4 for one big reason, cyber sub loses in the footsies game, so cage doesn't always have to be nxt to cyber sub to do dmg and make it hard on csz.
 

CURBOLICOUS

Cage ban wagon?
plz dnt jump at liu lol 8 frame standing 2s all day. Also it's all about timing and spacing with liu's fbs, and liu has long reaching normals/all neutral on block. We're going to have to run this mu bro, i wonder what dizzy thinks, I'll tag him GGA Dizzy. Also sub I'm going to have to run that mu more with denzell, i wouldn't count it out being a 5-5.
Make it 5-5. Dude consider how you counter pick. You really don't have a solid 1 main, you switch from like 5 different characters. If you played 100% cage you would probably feel different. I mean jumping as crossing over. You can't time a standing 2 if I hit my jump in punch at the right time.
 

LEGEND

YES!
i think the big thing in that mu is liu has long reaching/safe normals that make it harder for cage to just get in, up close he does do work, but liu's footsies help him greatly vs cage. I'll keep it 5-5 for now, maybe i'll change it later though.
Cages B3 wrecks alot of those options though

LowFireball mix ups are very risky
High hitbox
short range D3 and 10 frame D1 make for a Difficult time escaping pressure
213 does work to couter F3s but can be baited and delt with the same way Cage does to Sektors 12b1

idk, Played the MU earlier today and it felt pretty easy.
 
Cages B3 wrecks alot of those options though

LowFireball mix ups are very risky
High hitbox
short range D3 and 10 frame D1 make for a Difficult time escaping pressure
213 does work to couter F3s but can be baited and delt with the same way Cage does to Sektors 12b1

idk, Played the MU earlier today and it felt pretty easy.
i'll run it more with the vegas crew and other cages, and will change it if i feel like I had trouble. Good analysis nonetheless though.
 

Mikemetroid

Who hired this guy, WTF?
Lead Moderator
good analysis, i hear cages call it 5-5 all the time since they can't just f3, but cage does have good low pokes and csz can't just spam parries and expect to win. I'll change that to 6-4 for one big reason, cyber sub loses in the footsies game, so cage doesn't always have to be nxt to cyber sub to do dmg and make it hard on csz.
J360 can vouch for me.

I am not a braindead f3 Cage and will tell you that Cyber Sub goes 5-5. Cage's low pokes? Ok we got, d4, d3, and sweep. Thats it. All do hella low damage.

Also Used For Glue and Foxy go head to head when they used Cyber and Cage. Dizzy also BARELY beat UsedForGlue at EVO. The parry is effects a lot more than you think. Cyber Sub-Zero also gets a free slide everytime Cage tries to throw something, or he wins the trade with the Freeze.