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Strategy Scorpion stuff that isn't talked about a lot

Slips

Slips

Feared by dragons. Desired by virgins.
K.O.E_18 said:
LBSH, 90% of players will be blocking low regardless if they respect the takedown or not. The point of a blockstring is to stay safe. You never want to hand your opponent advantage on a silver platter. In this case your basically fucking yourself. It's unnecessary. I can only see this working on an overly anxious player.

EDIT: jailing after a jip is cool, but why would they just let go of block after a safe string that can be canceled?
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90% of players will be blocking low regardless if they respect takedown or not? I don't even know how this sentence makes sense. If they don't respect takedown that means they don't care about getting hit by it therefore they aren't blocking which is why a spear would be worth going for.

Tthe whole pressure system is this game is revolved around when you think they might let go of block. Thats like saying why would people let go of block after a Raiden b321, or why would people let go of block after a blocked Mileena 4,2 or Reptile 321. Cause people don't like blocking and being stuck blocking safe strings over and over. Thats why.

Think of all the times your takedown hits after a 111. Now think about about how much better it would've been if it was a spear instead. Its the same concept of doing f4 spear vs. f4 takedown.
 
Critical-Limit

Critical-Limit

Apprentice
RedRaptor10
K.O.E_18


Um... I think you guys are arguing a mute point here.

BOTH of your arguments are viable.

If you're at 70% HP and their at 30% HP, I can see how doing take downs instead of spear, is a worthy choice. Why throw a possibly game on a risky move when you're ahead?

But as redraptor and slips are saying.

if you're at even grounds, then being "safe" vs "risk" is your choice. you want to gain a small lead on a coin flip? or do you want to risk being behind? or do you want to stay on somewhat even ground being safe and waiting to condition more?


If you're behind, and one good read could win you the game. then it's up to the scorpion if the risk is worth it or not. And if you think your opponent respects your desperate motives to land a risky set up. then you get more free pressure.


Both of the arguments here are viable and good ideas.

it's up to YOU when you think it's a good idea to use it. based on opponents actions and how the match is looking with HP+Meter
 
OutworldKeith

OutworldKeith

Champion
Slips RedRaptor10
My bad I'm writing from my phone.

By design spear is always more rewarding than a takedown, so want type of point is that? There's a thin line between risky and just plain stupid. This is just stupid when you have a better option.

For the sake of argument, let's say this works. How many times will it work after? The point of it is to establish a mind game right? Using the spear or takedown grants the same mind game, but you'll be much safer after using the takedown. Why would you sacrifice 35+% of your life meter for something that might work?

We might as well agree to disagree because there's no way in hell this is viable without getting boned.

So let's just get back on topic.
 
Critical-Limit

Critical-Limit

Apprentice
K.O.E_18 said:
Slips RedRaptor10
My bad I'm writing from my phone.

By design spear is always more rewarding than a takedown, so want type of point is that? There's a thin line between risky and just plain stupid. This is just stupid when you have a better option.

For the sake of argument, let's say this works. How many times will it work after? The point of it is to establish a mind game right? Using the spear or takedown grants the same mind game, but you'll be much safer after using the takedown. Why would you sacrifice 35+% of your life meter for something that might work?

We might as well agree to disagree because there's no way in hell this is viable without getting boned.

So let's just get back on topic.
Click to expand...

You make a good point,

But as you said, "why would you sacrifice 35%+ of your life meter for something that "might work""

Why would your opponent want to do something after 111 if he knows you're willing to go for that possible risky 35% damage back at them.

A take down doesn't scare me either, whether it hits me or I block it I get out of your pressure either way. So I'm more likely to do something after 1,1,1 if you do takedown vs spear.

If they land 1 spear on me, I'm gonna be worried a bit, and thus maybe stay in block a little more than I should next time they do 1,1,1 pressure, and if I'm blocking low alot to avoid the spear/take down. I open myself up to B2 as well.


I don't think their method is dumb.

I just think their scenario and your scenario are both viable, and smart to do depending on the situation.
 
ryublaze

ryublaze

Noob
Pretty much what was being discussed in my previous thread about safe scorpion vs. vortex scorpion. I use both 1,1,1,takedown and 1,1,1,spear depending on the situation. If he's going to be blocking every time after 1,1,1 like you say he is then I'm going to be repeating the 1,1,1 string or going for the b2/f4 mix-up cuz they're just standing there blocking. There were times where I built back over 2 bars of meter because I was able to repeat 1,1,1 three times in a row. Also if they're going to be blocking low, then that's a good time to use B2, and sometimes I'll pause and they react by standing back up allowing me to do f4,spear or move in for another 1,1,1 where they're jailed into stand block again. The B2 also beats out low pokes if they're expecting you to do 1,1,1 again.

I've done this today too vs. RiBBz22 and Lulzlou
 
OutworldKeith

OutworldKeith

Champion
Critical-Limit said:
You make a good point,

But as you said, "why would you sacrifice 35%+ of your life meter for something that "might work""

Why would your opponent want to do something after 111 if he knows you're willing to go for that possible risky 35% damage back at them.

A take down doesn't scare me either, whether it hits me or I block it I get out of your pressure either way. So I'm more likely to do something after 1,1,1 if you do takedown vs spear.

If they land 1 spear on me, I'm gonna be worried a bit, and thus maybe stay in block a little more than I should next time they do 1,1,1 pressure, and if I'm blocking low alot to avoid the spear/take down. I open myself up to B2 as well.


I don't think their method is dumb.

I just think their scenario and your scenario are both viable, and smart to do depending on the situation.
Click to expand...
My method is better from a general perspective.

Spear:
-On hit, Bnb combo of your choice.​
-On block, -27 within sweep range....​
Takedown:
-On hit, you don't get much.​
-On block, you give up free blockstring or throw attempt that can be armored out of.​
​
This is a blockstring we're talking about not the vortex.

The takedown shouldn't be feared, but it has to be respected. 1,1,1 xx takedown also has a small window to armor out of. This can lead to armor baiting, which adds more to the mindgames.


​
 
OutworldKeith

OutworldKeith

Champion
RedRaptor10 said:
Pretty much what was being discussed in my previous thread about safe scorpion vs. vortex scorpion. I use both 1,1,1,takedown and 1,1,1,spear depending on the situation. If he's going to be blocking every time after 1,1,1 like you say he is then I'm going to be repeating the 1,1,1 string or going for the b2/f4 mix-up cuz they're just standing there blocking. There were times where I built back over 2 bars of meter because I was able to repeat 1,1,1 three times in a row. Also if they're going to be blocking low, then that's a good time to use B2, and sometimes I'll pause and they react by standing back up allowing me to do f4,spear or move in for another 1,1,1 where they're jailed into stand block again. The B2 also beats out low pokes if they're expecting you to do 1,1,1 again.

I've done this today too vs. RiBBz22 and Lulzlou
Click to expand...
Spear is still -27 on block bro. It's punishable no matter how you slice it. One block, your boned.
 
YOMI MITYEAP

YOMI MITYEAP

Master
ok guys, if we're talking about things that aren't talked about alot, then ppl should be saying "playing safe" with him, That's usually how i'll play scorpion and has led to my success with him vs top lvl players. I respect taking risks when you have meter though, but sometimes i feel it is best to just save the xray and have them fear that which will help you alot. Also his d4 should be used alot since that is the only poke I'd recommend using with him in the footsies game, and grabs should be used alot to set up your spacing and it is a very safe option to grab after hitting f2,1, tele. I like using f4 takedown to be safe and backing up after f2,1 tele and doing b2 isn't a bad option either. His jik air grab should be used alot to blow up AAs and something interesting i'm sure some know is that he can combo his 3,3,4 in the corner. Standing 1 and d1 the best AA options, and scorpions should njp ppl when they get cross over happy. D4 takedown is a good tool to use when the opponent wants to just poke or move after they block a d4, and ex hellfire is a great tool to end fights with. In footsies if you notice they aren't blocking low, f4 their ass and if you notice they keep ducking, then b2 their ass. I think that's good enough haha. Any questions then just ask me.
 
E

EntwinedTodd

Noob
You guys should also post some example mindgames for new scorpions. I like to get really gimmicky to mess with people haha.

Like:
B2, then teleport as they're falling so you go right over them and you can try to get another mix up for a little more damage. This one works because most people don't sit there holding block as they get comboed but it's very risky. (Probably not worth it lol)

Also, a setup I like to use that I've never seen:
jp 2 1+2 teleport 2 teleport d1 spear cjp 2 1+2 teleport
This one happens really quick and most people can't react to it.
 
Critical-Limit

Critical-Limit

Apprentice
K.O.E_18 said:
Spear is still -27 on block bro. It's punishable no matter how you slice it. One block, your boned.
Click to expand...
lol no ones saying spear is safe on block man.


But you said it yourself in your list of options. Takedown "on hit doesn't give you much"

and no it doesn't have to be respected. Scorpion rolls away after he hits you with this. thus letting them out of pressure. on block you give up pressure. So either way... you're giving up pressure.


I'm just saying, if you NEVER EVER EVER spear me after 1,1,1. I'm almost never gonna respect your takedown as hard as I would respect a 1,1,1 spear.

I AGREE with you that yours is safe, and probably the best option most of the time.

But I can see where redraptor is coming from on conditioning them and putting in the fear. People respect REALLY dangerous options, a lot harder than they are gonna respect 1 move, that gets them out of pressure.


Blocked spear, yes it's punishable. And it shouldn't be used on someone who's defense heavy.

Which is why Redraptor would say that if he thinks they are defense heavy, and thinks they are afraid of that option or they are waiting to see what happens. he gets free pressure. and sooner or later, you're gonna get tired of getting 1,1,1 on you over and over again for free because your waiting to block that spear. So your gonna take the risk of poking after 1,1,1.

The guess on that is dangerous we all know this.


but it's not a completely unviable or even close to a completely bad idea.

I would always argue if you're way better than your opponent then never risk it. But if they are evenly matched or stronger than you. I think doing redraptors strategy atleast once in a while depending on the opponent is worth thinking about.

especially if they are better at footsies than you (aka walking back and forth to bait stuff)



Reo commits to dash, during his pressure occasionally. that's full combo punishable.

That's no different than redraptors spear scenario.

gonna tell me REO does stupid things too?
 
ryublaze

ryublaze

Noob
This is so dumb I'm not even going to respond anymore lol.

EntwinedTodd said:
You guys should also post some example mindgames for new scorpions. I like to get really gimmicky to mess with people haha.

Like:
B2, then teleport as they're falling so you go right over them and you can try to get another mix up for a little more damage. This one works because most people don't sit there holding block as they get comboed but it's very risky. (Probably not worth it lol)

Also, a setup I like to use that I've never seen:
jp 2 1+2 teleport 2 teleport d1 spear cjp 2 1+2 teleport
This one happens really quick and most people can't react to it.
Click to expand...
Yeah the 1st one I don't think is worth it. The 2nd one is an okay mix-up IMO.
 
OutworldKeith

OutworldKeith

Champion
MITDJT That's what I'm saying! Taking unnecessary risks with a generally unsafe character is bad logic IMO.

I like to trick my opponents with 1,1 and 2,1 on block. Most players will try to poke out of 1,1, but the trick is 2,1 has pushback. You can punish with pokes accordingly by alternating between the two.

I like to use jump back kicks/punches for crossover defense.

Also, I've been fucking around with empty jump in the vortex. After f2,1 xx TP - empty jump b2/f4. It confuses the opponent because you have to block the jip standing.
 
YOMI MITYEAP

YOMI MITYEAP

Master
K.O.E_18 said:
MITDJT That's what I'm saying! Taking unnecessary risks with a generally unsafe character is bad logic IMO.

I like to trick my opponents with 1,1 and 2,1 on block. Most players will try to poke out of 1,1, but the trick is 2,1 has pushback. You can punish with pokes accordingly by alternating between the two.

I like to use jump back kicks/punches for crossover defense.

Also, I've been fucking around with empty jump in the vortex. After f2,1 xx TP - empty jump b2/f4. It confuses the opponent because you have to block the jip standing.
Click to expand...
yes those sound like great ideas, i haven't incorporated using his 2 1 that much but i should bcuz it has good pushback and also EVERY scorpion should use the mini vortex at times because it is very confusing and leads to you gaining more dmg and meter. Also for deep jik combos, i do deep jik, d4, tele, 1,1,1 spear, jip, f2,1 tele. For like 37 percent.
 
OutworldKeith

OutworldKeith

Champion
Critical-Limit said:
*Snip
Click to expand...
It's a blockstring dude. The point is to build meter and stay safe. I'm not looking for damage, I'm setting up mindgames. The mindgames reward me with damage, and I take less risks in the long run.

lol REO was a good example....except for the fact that he uses KABAL. He can take whatever risk he wants because Kabal will always have meter to spare. It's not the same thing...very bad comparison.
 
InFlames

InFlames

dead
MITDJT said:
yes those sound like great ideas, i haven't incorporated using his 2 1 that much but i should bcuz it has good pushback and also EVERY scorpion should use the mini vortex at times because it is very confusing and leads to you gaining more dmg and meter. Also for deep jik combos, i do deep jik, d4, tele, 1,1,1 spear, jip, f2,1 tele. For like 37 percent.
Click to expand...
Mini Vortex? You mean JIP into Mix-up? If so then yes that is VERY useful. So far I've only been countered 2/20 times using it. :p
 
Critical-Limit

Critical-Limit

Apprentice
K.O.E_18 said:
It's a blockstring dude. The point is to build meter and stay safe. I'm not looking for damage, I'm setting up mindgames. The mindgames reward me with damage, and I take less risks in the long run.

lol REO was a good example....except for the fact that he uses KABAL. He can take whatever risk he wants because Kabal will always have meter to spare. It's not the same thing...very bad comparison.
Click to expand...


It's not a bad comparison. Scorpion has a breaker, Kabal has a breaker.
It's the same situation.
Kabal can just do it "more" because he can get breaker access more.
That doesn't make it any less of a comparison.
that's just arguing quantity over quality.
The quality of the trick is the same, it's the quantity/frequency that you're arguing here.


No one is saying you have to commit to spear. lol

are you trolling me?

If your just staying safe...

THEN OF COURSE YOU DO TAKEDOWN.

But if you want to put in really strong FEAR /condition them to be more afraid?

Then the spear is a viable option.

Trust me everyone knows it's unsafe, but the reward for a correct guess is stronger, and the reward for the conditioning of respect is strong. But as everyone in here agrees... it's at the price of risky business.


No one is saying it's not risky man. We just don't see it being completely unuse-able tool.
 
OutworldKeith

OutworldKeith

Champion
MITDJT said:
yes those sound like great ideas, i haven't incorporated using his 2 1 that much but i should bcuz it has good pushback and also EVERY scorpion should use the mini vortex at times because it is very confusing and leads to you gaining more dmg and meter. Also for deep jik combos, i do deep jik, d4, tele, 1,1,1 spear, jip, f2,1 tele. For like 37 percent.
Click to expand...
I like the mini vortex lol.

What do you think of the deep jump kick option select? It works at almost fullscreen, and I've been able to use it against Kabal's saw, Reptile's acid spit, and Smoke's smoke bomb. It might even work on Freddy too.
 
YOMI MITYEAP

YOMI MITYEAP

Master
K.O.E_18 said:
I like the mini vortex lol.

What do you think of the deep jump kick option select? It works at almost fullscreen, and I've been able to use it against Kabal's saw, Reptile's acid spit, and Smoke's smoke bomb. It might even work on Freddy too.
Click to expand...
deep jump in kick OS? actually nvr heard of it but it sounds nice, pls elaborate on what it does bcuz i would like to hear about that.
 
OutworldKeith

OutworldKeith

Champion
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