Question If Kabal was nerfed, do you think the game would be less scrubby?

[FrothyOmen]

Well first off ex rk works 30% of the time, usually they're in a position inside of its hitbox you waste one bar to get punished for 42%

EX SC if timed perfectly you trade 12% for 9% , you spent 1 full bar of meter for a 3% trade giving him now more meter w meter advantage

Also slightly delayed 3 comes out before you can input ex sc in most cases unless you're luke skywalker

this is real info I can actually appreciate. Thank you based pig.

 

[NRF CharlieMurphy]

Kung Lao has no reason to ever use meter against Smoke and he's building it like crazy becuase of all the free blockstrings he gets on Smoke. It's not uncommon for Laos to break twice a round vs. me from all that fucking meter they get.

there is no way a character that has a 70% reset on a good read has a 2-8 MU.
I know it is bad... but you really have to grow some stones and take a risk when he jumps or teleport. Don't let the 50/50 make you block.... take a guess. If you lose you lose..... but blocking and then whining is not the way to go. My character has the same problem yours does....

Fundamentally the MU is clearly not in smokes favor. But i mean.... you gotta play it .....

 

[Pig Of The Hut]

So you're complaining that Kenshi cannot just barf something out, he actually has to make a read for once in his life? No other character in the game ever has to do that.

first of all you play smoke, if you lose its on you so im not sure why you're even worried about kenshi. Thats a bad MU for kenshi with both players at highest levels. Smoke has no reason to ever touch kenshi and kenshi has to take major risks

I suggest you pick up kenshi and let me use lao on you online or offline and show you how "easy" this mu is

After playing 1000 games w laos w kenshi i know how to use lao on kenshi so i can show you what i have to go through quickly

this MU is awful - infact pick kenshi on PL lao's at next CC let me know how quick that goes

 

[FrothyOmen]

there is no way a character that has a 70% reset on a good read has a 2-8 MU.
I know it is bad... but you really have to grow some stones and take a risk when he jumps or teleport. Don't let the 50/50 make you block.... take a guess. If you lose you lose..... but blocking and then whining is not the way to go. My character has the same problem yours does....

Fundamentally the MU is clearly not in smokes favor. But i mean.... you gotta play it .....

And I do play it. Every day. I know what I have to do to win in the matchup, but it fucking sucks and i will cry about it at any and every opportunity. You should know this about me by now

 

[NRF CharlieMurphy]

And I do play it. Every day. I know what I have to do to win in the matchup, but it fucking sucks and i will cry about it at any and every opportunity. You should know this about me by now

That is totally fair!!!

 

[Pig Of The Hut]

xSMoKEx
Wafflez

Please give me your honest #s on smoke vs lao

gross
Por favor, deme su honesta números de "humo" vs "Kung Lao"
3-7?
2-8?
4-6?

 

[Protagonist_1]

No, it's not. Think about how fair everyone has treated Kabal players when it comes to tournaments... They know our character is fucked up and broken, but they smile and allow us to use him in tournaments. I think this would be a great way to treat the community back as Kabal players, think of it as a way of saying "thank you". I honestly didn't feel right being up on that stage on Dallas, I felt like I took away a possible win and achievement for someone else who deserved it way more than me. I had my time to shine already, it just really wasn't right IMO and killed all possible hype.

And no I don't think Kabal being banned would make this game "less scrubby", this game isn't even "scrubby" to begin with.

 

[AC1984]

No because If Kabal gets nerfed, Cyrax, Sonya, Kenshi and Cage are on the line to take his place....Circumstances u know...

 

[coolwhip]

xSMoKEx
Wafflez

Please give me your honest #s on smoke vs lao

gross
Por favor, deme su honesta números de "humo" vs "Kung Lao"
3-7?
2-8?
4-6?

LOL at "humo." Pretty sure Smoke's name is still Smoke in Spanish

 

[sub_on_dubs]

I think they should get rid of all armor in this game. I think that has to be the scrubbiest thing in fighting games. You're pretty much saying your spacing and footsies are so terrible that I'm just going to blow them up with this armor whether they attack or not. If you nerf Kabal, you would have to nerf Kenshi and Sonya's ex cartwheel as well and possibly give a buff or two to the bottom five characters then this game would be perfect.

 

[Eddy Wang]

gross
Por favor, deme su honesta números de "humo" vs "Kung Lao"
3-7?
2-8?
4-6?

me encanta ver pig hablando español, estoy surpreso

 

[gdf]

I get sad that the last two pages of this thread has more discussion about the Kenshi and Smoke vs Kung Lao matchups, than the Kung Lao forums.

 

[AssassiN]

If Reo would organize a tournament, it would be a low-tier-only tournament.

 

[Big Pampering]

Its crazy how many succesfull Kenshis there are

I mean LBSH think of all the times each character has placed top 8 compared to a player w kenshi as a main

sonya 8+?
Kabal 10?
Lao 12?
Cyrax 8?
Cage 8?
Mileena 5+?
Kitana 7+?
Sheeva 2?
Sub Zero 4?
Nightwolf 1?
Jax 5?
Reptil 10?
Raiden 3?
Shang 2?
Quan chi 2?
Kenshi......2?


....yea seems legit...........Kenshi has obviously taken over the game and scene w pure dominance

other than Pl, forever king and p board player no kung lao places top 8, tom brady used to use kung lao but that was a short periode of time. and of all kung lao players, Pl is the only one that delivers on the very top level and with that I mean you reo, detroit, dizzy, maxter, 16 bit etc.

 

[redeyes]

I think they should get rid of all armor in this game. I think that has to be the scrubbiest thing in fighting games. You're pretty much saying your spacing and footsies are so terrible that I'm just going to blow them up with this armor whether they attack or not. If you nerf Kabal, you would have to nerf Kenshi and Sonya's ex cartwheel as well and possibly give a buff or two to the bottom five characters then this game would be perfect.

have fun playing cage with no armor.

 

[Big Pampering]

Dash not being cancellable = Kabal might as well not have it, and pretty much removes an actually interesting aspect about him.

You don't need to neuter him to make him more fair. If people are capable of playing vs Kabal in his current state, there's really not much to tweak on him other than slight things. 16 Bit said it some time ago, a few things here and there, and this game is good.

Also, on the subject of broken characters, has anyone noticed that Kenshi is basically designed around how the game was at launch? As are Skarlet, Freddy and Rain?

Illmatix Kung Lao's only big, big nerf is spin's pushback being nerfed and his damage. Once people would've eventually learned the drawbacks of low hat pre-patch, it wouldn't have been nearly as big a deal as people make it out to be. 24 low hat/1+2 mixup wasn't even that good. 1+2 is blocked on reaction, so people didn't have a reason to stand block him outside of that and f2, which was also unsafe. Low hat was -7 on block. 21212 xx low hat was actually combo punishable because you could jump before low hat ever came out, and just letting 21212 rock was pointless because there was no reward for it, and the risk was stupid high. Eventually, people would've figured out that it wasn't as great as it was cracked up to be because no one would really care to stand block him. People still don't really care to, but he doesn't get raped for making you want to either. Spin's pushback was huge simply because it gave him basically a poke on some characters, but most of those particular characters don't really possess the type of offense that would make him want to spin them often in the first place anyway. The damage nerf was something that was guaranteed to hit him, and everyone took hits there, actually. Not to mention, with how the game is played now, and the above fact on 21212 xx low hat, X-Ray would've ended up used as much as it is now.

The character was never that easy to begin with, and was never really nerfed. The aspects they weakened weren't aspects that would be big factors now. Kung Lao is top tier because he's one of the few characters that completely says fuck all to a ground game. His mobility ends up making footsies nearly impossible to play, and for a number of characters, this ruins pretty much anything they want to do. This part of Kung Lao was NEVER touched, and is why he remains so good.

low hat nerf was a big nerf, not because of the advantage on hit, but because of the zoning, the recovery on low hat was rediculous for zoning. its hard to say which kung lao is better, but the prepatch low hat would be a godlike tool in the sonya, cage matchup for example.

 

[Pig Of The Hut]

LOL at "humo." Pretty sure Smoke's name is still Smoke in Spanish

other than Pl, forever king and p board player no kung lao places top 8, tom brady used to use kung lao but that was a short periode of time. and of all kung lao players, Pl is the only one that delivers on the very top level and with that I mean you reo, detroit, dizzy, maxter, 16 bit etc.

Also cd Jr , mklegend, I want to count foxy also since the kenshi reign (march 2012-present)

 

[RYX]

Just buff everybody else.

 

[Tom Brady]

Pig Of The Hut REO are right

Kenshi vs KL is terrible. PL and I abuse the weakness of Kenshi over and over. Pig stops it once, we do it again, and again, and again. We make him stop it 999999999999999999999 times a round. Kenshi is not equiped to deal with air mobility, especially with KLs tools off of the teleport vs Kenshi's high hitbox.

As far as banning Kabal goes. It cant be done. Yes i understand that he has no losing or even MU's after the last patch, but if Kabal goes then people will cry for Kenshi to go. After Kenshi goes, people will cry for Cyrax to go. It will go on and on, next "broke" character on the list. This is why Kenshi and Cyrax players defend Kabal so much, because they know the the community will then turn to the next "most broken" character, even if those characters have weakness. It will turn into a chain reaction that will cause only Jade, Kano, and Sheeva legal lol.

 

[Big Pampering]

Also cd Jr , mklegend, I want to count foxy also since the kenshi reign (march 2012-present)

Foxy kung lao is the second best kung lao imo.

 

[RoGE]

Banning this character will just make the MK community look weak and the game look even worse. You gotta learn how to fight against Kabal the hard way.

Also..I disagree at Vanilla Kung being worse than the current one, I'd take his amazing40-70% meterless punishers any day over the current buffs they gave him.

 

[SaJa]

As far as banning Kabal goes. It cant be done. Yes i understand that he has no losing or even MU's after the last patch, but if Kabal goes then people will cry for Kenshi to go. After Kenshi goes, people will cry for Cyrax to go. It will go on and on, next "broke" character on the list. This is why Kenshi and Cyrax players defend Kabal so much, because they know the the community will then turn to the next "most broken" character, even if those characters have weakness. It will turn into a chain reaction that will cause only Jade, Kano, and Sheeva legal lol.

That's what we want. When a char is too imbalanced, we go to nerf him, and go to the next one, until it is balanced. that's how it is supposed to work. You guys have no damn clue how a firm can make a balance game. When I hear you it looks impossible so it has to stay like it is. When a patch comes out, it can be some mistake (like sz for example) but the next patch can correct what it has been done before etc...
Blizzard makes good stuff about it on starcraft 1&2. They are looking something which can look imbalanced at high level but also at casual level. They also keep in mind the progamers stats to look what race (unit) is dominating the pro scene (in mk9, if there are 40% kabal, 30% kunglao, 25% cyrax, and 5% foreigner characters in a top 20 tourney so it may mean something).

We just need to nerf 3-4 chars in the game (cyrax, KL, kabal, kenshi, cyrax and mb sonya, basicly the S tier). As soon as jax/JC/freddy/skarlet get to the next step of dominating shit (A tier), it's ok because they actually have good counterpick characters to deal with, and here comes the balance we thikig about.

 

[Lulzlou]

That's what we want. When a char is too imbalanced, we go to nerf him, and go to the next one, until it is balanced. that's how it is supposed to work. You guys have no damn clue how a firm can make a balance game. When I hear you it looks impossible so it has to stay like it is. When a patch comes out, it can be some mistake (like sz for example) but the next patch can correct what it has been done before etc...
Blizzard makes good stuff about it on starcraft 1&2. They are looking something which can look imbalanced at high level but also at casual level. They also keep in mind the progamers stats to look what race (unit) is dominating the pro scene (in mk9, if there are 40% kabal, 30% kunglao, 25% cyrax, and 5% foreigner characters in a top 20 tourney so it may mean something).

We just need to nerf 3-4 chars in the game (cyrax, KL, kabal, kenshi, cyrax and mb sonya, basicly the S tier). As soon as jax/JC/freddy/skarlet get to the next step of dominating shit (A tier), it's ok because they actually have good counterpick characters to deal with, and here comes the balance we thikig about.

You fail to realize that we wont get a patch.
The thread is about banning Kabal not about nerfing him. That is why tom said people would go on to the next character. There is a difference between making a balanced game and dealing with what we have since we wont get a patch. People have been asking for patches for awhile now but do you see any hints of us getting one? No.

 

[SaJa]

Oh my bad then. I though the thread was like "how would be the game without kabal exit S+ tier". It wasn't like baning the char imo.

But nevermind.

 

[Lumpymoomilk]

Kabal should be tired after 2 ndc's in a row, and thus need to go to the corner and breathing heavily in his mask for 4 seconds giving you an opportunity for punishment.