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PL says "KL NOT IN TOP TEN"

BlackBryan

B*tch Distributor
Why are people saying footsies are better than random teles? A good Lao plays with a combination of the two. I can read most Laos at least 5 moves in advance. He doesn't suck, people just don't change up their game plans enough. I know a roll means a low hat, 121 mixup( or 212, whatever it is) to tele 60% of the time. The other 40% is a low hat, 121(212), to 50/50 overhead hat or low hat, spin. Maybe do something else and everyone wont blow your Lao up every time you go in. Just a thought.
 

Bildslash

Goro Lives 
You must fight very shitty Freddy players.
Actually I have played very few of them. But I have played FCP/EMP SCAR several times and have watched tournie footage, both his and yours.

I know zoning is Freddy's strenght, however, that's not full the exent of his capabilities. You play a zoning-driven Freddy. Scar plays a well rounded Freddy making use of his footsies, NS, and zoning.

You and Scar are the Freddy experts. I wouldn't know who is the best Freddy between the 2 of you; that goes beyond playstyle and pertains smarts as a player. Nevertheless, I can draw a comparison from both playstyles and notice Scar uses all of Freddy's tools.

I apologize in advance if I'm drawing the wrong conclusion. Your comment implies Scar's Freddy is below yours.
 

ForeverKing

Patreon.com/MK_ForeverKing
It doesnt matter, this game can only go so far in terms of what you can do in a matchup. KL will never not be able to interupt her strings, she will never not be able to punish just as hard etc.

I know how these characters are played, I have been a major contributor to how both characters are played. As well as Rain/Cage
So are you trying to say that Kung Lao beats Sonya 6-4?
 
LBSH, sonya wins that mu lmao. Whoever thinks not is in denial of an obvious truth.
I seriously think lao's footsies work great against sonya, if you decide to be in her face all day your probably going to lose yes. but try to zone her with normal and low hat, she doesnt have anything to get in on you instantly, and she doesnt have a whiff punisher like f3 or that crazy ranged b3 cage has or even a shadow kick. the most she is going to get if you throw a bad hat is a d4 which you are probably going to be able to block and kung lao can interrupt d4 ms on block. when the sonya tries to throw projectiles you can decide to get in, kung lao can get in whenever he wants. just do small damage even if it is just 15% and go back again to zoning. 24 overhead on hit is going to leave you in great footsies range to zone her again. f2 is kind of a zoning tool as well in this matchup and works great.

Also if you read jump ins do jumpkick dive kick for full combo, if she didnt jump youre on safe because sonya cant do anything about his air mobility.
 

coolwhip

Master
Why are people saying footsies are better than random teles? A good Lao plays with a combination of the two. I can read most Laos at least 5 moves in advance. He doesn't suck, people just don't change up their game plans enough. I know a roll means a low hat, 121 mixup( or 212, whatever it is) to tele 60% of the time. The other 40% is a low hat, 121(212), to 50/50 overhead hat or low hat, spin. Maybe do something else and everyone wont blow your Lao up every time you go in. Just a thought.
What?
 

GamerBlake90

Blue Blurs for Life!
I was there when Perfect Legend made this statement and while I didn't dwell on it then, I've thought about it some and I find myself agreeing with the statement.

I mean, I won't dare say that he is a terrible character. With a six-frame anti-air (and an X-ray that works similarly), great damage for his combos, and a divekick that can cover space and recover instantly on whiff, he's far from shit-tier. But given that the first hit of each of his usual blockstrings can be ducked and counter-poked, and with how limited his mix-ups have become, it isn't as easy for him to be a rushdown character like it used to be. The spin is a great way to escape pressure, but is so unsafe that it can be baited and punished.

His zoning isn't that impressive, either. Low Hat is easily jumped and even his regular Hat Toss with shifting directions makes little difference. He will accomplish nothing if he's not up in their face.

Teleport is decent, even his EX version, but they're too easily beaten unless your character lacks armor and/or great pokes.

I tried to replace my Raiden with Kung Lao in an effort to cover Sonya's bad match-ups better, as Tom Brady once advised me to do down in Plano, but I simply could not be successful with the character and eventually I dropped him in favor of the Thunder God. He just isn't who he used to be. This is not to say he can't be viable, but it's an uphill battle for him to reach that level.
 

ForeverKing

Patreon.com/MK_ForeverKing
I seriously think lao's footsies work great against sonya, if you decide to be in her face all day your probably going to lose yes. but try to zone her with normal and low hat, she doesnt have anything to get in on you instantly, and she doesnt have a whiff punisher like f3 or that crazy ranged b3 cage has or even a shadow kick. the most she is going to get if you throw a bad hat is a d4 which you are probably going to be able to block and kung lao can interrupt d4 ms on block. when the sonya tries to throw projectiles you can decide to get in, kung lao can get in whenever he wants. just do small damage even if it is just 15% and go back again to zoning. 24 overhead on hit is going to leave you in great footsies range to zone her again. f2 is kind of a zoning tool as well in this matchup and works great.

Also if you read jump ins do jumpkick dive kick for full combo, if she didnt jump youre on safe because sonya cant do anything about his air mobility.
I see what your trying to say, but it's really not that simple though. Kung Lao can't just get in whenever he wants because Sonya's low hit box with her quick uppercut means instant punish of every single teleport. You can't really jump at Sonya or cross her over at all because of her low hit box and fast uppercut. Zoning only works for so long, Sonya's zoning is better than Kung Lao. Her rings are faster AND have quicker recovery than Kung Lao's low hat and his straight hat. Her d4 goes under all of Kung Lao's strings. In my opinion she wins the battle up close and from far away, Kung Lao has to make alot of good reads to win this match.
 
I see what your trying to say, but it's really not that simple though. Kung Lao can't just get in whenever he wants because Sonya's low hit box with her quick uppercut means instant punish of every single teleport. You can't really jump at Sonya or cross her over at all because of her low hit box and fast uppercut. Zoning only works for so long, Sonya's zoning is better than Kung Lao. Her rings are faster AND have quicker recovery than Kung Lao's low hat and his straight hat. Her d4 goes under all of Kung Lao's strings. In my opinion she wins the battle up close and from far away, Kung Lao has to make alot of good reads to win this match.
if you cross her over and she tries uppercuts you, the next time you do crossover teleport , she will eat 43% no meter. she needs to uppercut you 4 times to deal the same damage. also the zoning thing isnt that simple. whoever throws the first projectile will have an advantage in the zoning battle for at least a few extra projectiles. and her low hitbox isnt that low, jax, kung lao, JC, kitana all have an even smaller hitbox. irritating the sonya player is a huge factor in this matchup, you get a lifelead and the sonya player won't go into a projectile battle with you because you will win with the lifelead. if you 24 overhead her and she is knocked down she will have to block the first projectile, so you start zoning after the knockdown because the one who starts the first projectile will have a slight advantage for a while. just try it,far knockdowns like 24 overhead 24 palmstrike. and then into zoning works really good.

edit: and ofcourse its not that simple, its a 5-5 matchup so the better player wins.
 

Hellion_96

xX_Hellion96_Xx
I think Pl s main problem is he wants to play KL like cage and that's not possible anymore. Without the low hat advantage KL only has the teleport and jumpins/crossovers to actually get a string going in the neutral game. F3 is not good enough alone to rely on to start offence. Against cyrax and smoke yours risking a 30% spin against a death combo so ..
 

coolwhip

Master
I was there when Perfect Legend made this statement and while I didn't dwell on it then, I've thought about it some and I find myself agreeing with the statement.

I mean, I won't dare say that he is a terrible character. With a six-frame anti-air (and an X-ray that works similarly), great damage for his combos, and a divekick that can cover space and recover instantly on whiff, he's far from shit-tier. But given that the first hit of each of his usual blockstrings can be ducked and counter-poked, and with how limited his mix-ups have become, it isn't as easy for him to be a rushdown character like it used to be. The spin is a great way to escape pressure, but is so unsafe that it can be baited and punished.

His zoning isn't that impressive, either. Low Hat is easily jumped and even his regular Hat Toss with shifting directions makes little difference. He will accomplish nothing if he's not up in their face.

Teleport is decent, even his EX version, but they're too easily beaten unless your character lacks armor and/or great pokes.

I tried to replace my Raiden with Kung Lao in an effort to cover Sonya's bad match-ups better, as Tom Brady once advised me to do down in Plano, but I simply could not be successful with the character and eventually I dropped him in favor of the Thunder God. He just isn't who he used to be. This is not to say he can't be viable, but it's an uphill battle for him to reach that level.
I don't disagree but I think this is part of the evolution of a character. The more successful a character is, the more people will find ways to deal with him, and then it is up to the players who play said character to change things up. We've been there before with Kung Lao himself, as just 6 months ago, many were claiming he was trash.
 

REO

Undead
PL also said Scorpion was top 5 after he faced Slips at Frosty Faustings

Top players aren't always right
He's won EVO back to back. His opinion holds more weight over anyone. It holds more weight over Slips, over 16 Bit, even over Tom Brady. I don't care what any player says at the end of the day. I would listen to Perfect Legend over anyone else, period. I also don't care if Slips is the "scorpion guy", PL has won EVO twice. If PL says Scorpion could be top five, then he could be. Who are any of you to just disprove his claims like that? What have any of you done that even comes CLOSE to what PL has accomplished?
 

Faded Dreams V

Retired June 2012. Unretired June 2013.
He's won EVO back to back. His opinion holds more weight over anyone. It holds more weight over Slips, over 16 Bit, even over Tom Brady. I don't care what any player says at the end of the day. I would listen to Perfect Legend over anyone else, period. I also don't care if Slips is the "scorpion guy", PL has won EVO twice. If PL says Scorpion could be top five, then he could be. Who are any of you to just disprove his claims like that? What have any of you done that even comes CLOSE to what PL has accomplished?
I don't think his opinion holds more weight over yours, master.
 

REO

Undead
I don't think his opinion holds more weight over yours, master.
Nice one, but no. I know I'll never be half the player PL is. Winning EVO is like winning a 100 majors. At least I'm the only player here who is real about it. Everyone else shits on PL because they're jealous and think they know what they're talking about over the two time EVO champion.
 

Faded Dreams V

Retired June 2012. Unretired June 2013.
Nice one, but no. I know I'll never be half the player PL is. Winning EVO is like winning a 100 majors. At least I'm the only player here who is real about it. Everyone else shits on PL because they're jealous and think they know what they're talking about over the two time EVO champion.
PL's accomplishment is bar none, but you remain the most consistent player on the scene, and the only one to win two MLGs in a row. Don't give me that "I'll never be half the player PL is" bullshit.
 

DJ L Toro

Champion
Nice one, but no. I know I'll never be half the player PL is. Winning EVO is like winning a 100 majors. At least I'm the only player here who is real about it. Everyone else shits on PL because they're jealous and think they know what they're talking about over the two time EVO champion.
so the verdict is in we really dont count his DoA EVO win?
 

Compbros

Man of Tomorrow
The simplest way I think of this is "I can't name 10 characters better than Lao". I can only think of 3 or 4 that's instantly like "s/he is better" and the next group, which Lao is part of, is interchangeable alot of the time.
 

REO

Undead
PL's accomplishment is bar none, but you remain the most consistent player on the scene, and the only one to win two MLGs in a row. Don't give me that "I'll never be half the player PL is" bullshit.
You don't get it. It doesn't matter how many grass root majors or MLGs someone wins, it means nothing at the end of the day. PL won where it counted, twice. Who cares if someone is the most consistent player on the side lines. I would give up all my tournament placings (and more) just for one EVO win.

so the verdict is in we really dont count his DoA EVO win?
I totally forgot about that one. The guy is just insane.
 

Compbros

Man of Tomorrow
People put waaaaay too much stock in matchups; if it's 6-4 then who even cares?


Edit: Ahh crap, completely edited out my damn post.
 

sub_on_dubs

Online Scrub Lord
I always thought Kung Lao was a little overrated and believe he is probably a upper mid tier character at this point in the game. What PL has done with this character is amazing given all the nerfs he's gotten since release. I think people are just seeing all the holes in his game and now has PL contemplating dropping the character.