UMK3 Tier list discussion

[Tim Static]

why is kabal above human smoke??

the way i see it everyone loves human smoke

and why are kung lao and ermac up at such ranks??

i find that they are 2 of the HARDEST characters to master!

A tier list isnt based on how many people like a player. This list was developed in offline play (on a cab) and is based on two players of equal skill going head to head. The top 10-12 are pretty rock solid in their placement, but it is the lower tiers that have the best argument to change spots.

Yes, Kung Lao is a hard character to become good with, but not so much with Ermac. Ermac & H.Smoke might be some of the easier characters to become good with, along with Kabal & Robot Smoke (aka Robo Homo).

Good advice would be to take Kabal, H.Smoke, Kano or Robo Homo and play that character exclusively until you've become higher than average with him.

 

[Tim Static]

Lao almost relays on his infinite IMO I don't think he sould be as high as he is but if you can learn is relatively easy infinite he can be a beast.

I totally disagree with that. A good Lao player doesnt rely on his infinite. A good Lao player relies on making the other player make a mistake. Just one aaP and a hit with this spin and the match is over. Done. Stick a fork in 'em.

But he is a harder character to become beastly with, for sure. I def think he is #2-3 on the list (#2, IMO).

 

[FILER]

I totally disagree with that. A good Lao player doesnt rely on his infinite. A good Lao player relies on making the other player make a mistake. Just one aaP and a hit with this spin and the match is over. Done. Stick a fork in 'em.

But he is a harder character to become beastly with, for sure. I def think he is #2-3 on the list (#2, IMO).

My top 10 is a little different than others. I will stand behind Kung Lao being better than Human Smoke, a high level Kung Lao is better than a high level Human Smoke. At a lower level this is not the case however.

1.) Kabal
2.) Kung Lao
3.) Human Smoke
4.) Ermac
5.) Nightwolf
6.) Reptile
7.) Robot Smoke
8.) Sindel
9.) Jax
10.) Sonya

 

[Tim Static]

My top 10 is a little different than others. I will stand behind Kung Lao being better than Human Smoke, a high level Kung Lao is better than a high level Human Smoke. At a lower level this is not the case however.

1.) Kabal
2.) Kung Lao
3.) Human Smoke
4.) Ermac
5.) Nightwolf
6.) Reptile
7.) Robot Smoke
8.) Sindel
9.) Jax
10.) Sonya

Kano pwns NW, Rep, Jax & the big tittied Blonde.

As far as Top 5 goes, I dont think their is any dispute with:

1. Kabal
2. Kung Lao
3. H.Smoke
4. Kano
5. Ermac

6-12 could go a number of different ways.

But of course, that is my opinion, and I'm sticking to it like Droopy on gay porn.

PS- the reason why most hardened XBL veterans dont consider Kano top tier is because Kano isnt as effective on a game paddle as he is with a stick player. Thats just a fact. Most of you have never seen exactly what Kano can do becauseof that hold up. Now if this tier list was for XBL play only, then Kano would be fightig to stay in the top 10.

 

[Houzi]

I found that Ermac was literally the easiest of all the characters to learn. I don't even understand what's hard to learn about him. He has very basic moves and his combos are one of the easiest to learn and pick up.

 

[Obstruction]

I totally disagree with that. A good Lao player doesnt rely on his infinite. A good Lao player relies on making the other player make a mistake. Just one aaP and a hit with this spin and the match is over. Done. Stick a fork in 'em.

But he is a harder character to become beastly with, for sure. I def think he is #2-3 on the list (#2, IMO).

No offence but you just said he doesn't relay on his infinite then said 1 aaP and its over...

 

[Obstruction]

I noticed when I went to stick that Hold LK moves are way way way better.

 

[Tim Static]

No offence but you just said he doesn't relay on his infinite then said 1 aaP and its over...

No, he doesnt RELY on it, but if say, Player 2 gives Player 1 the opening for it, your not gonna take it?

A good Kung will play to force you to mess up, and if the chance arises to juggle you across the screen until your energy bar depletes, then so be it. But if a players tries to force the inf, they will fail almost every time.

 

[Tim Static]

I noticed when I went to stick that Hold LK moves are way way way better.

Yes, the stick makes charging moves easier while you play so you can release it at the right moment, just as if it were meant to be played

 

[FILER]

Kano pwns NW, Rep, Jax & the big tittied Blonde.

As far as Top 5 goes, I dont think their is any dispute with:

1. Kabal
2. Kung Lao
3. H.Smoke
4. Kano
5. Ermac

6-12 could go a number of different ways.

But of course, that is my opinion, and I'm sticking to it like Droopy on gay porn.

PS- the reason why most hardened XBL veterans dont consider Kano top tier is because Kano isnt as effective on a game paddle as he is with a stick player. Thats just a fact. Most of you have never seen exactly what Kano can do becauseof that hold up. Now if this tier list was for XBL play only, then Kano would be fightig to stay in the top 10.

I love how everyone says that there is no dispute in the top 5, but yet almost EVERYONE disputes it. This site even has a different top 5 than what you just said wasn't disputed. Ermac IS better than Kano, there is no doubt about that. He is much better.

Kano is dated, I keep hearing, "oh, people used to use him alot in the 90's" over and over again. This isn't the 90's, Kano isn't that good. His moves are punishable, I love when people try to use the cannoball, LOVE IT.

I'll take Sonya, Jax, Reptile and NW and destroy your Kano.

 

[Houzi]

No, he doesnt RELY on it, but if say, Player 2 gives Player 1 the opening for it, your not gonna take it?

A good Kung will play to force you to mess up, and if the chance arises to juggle you across the screen until your energy bar depletes, then so be it. But if a players tries to force the inf, they will fail almost every time.

Happens to me everytime

 

[mistaKM]

How many of you players that say ermac is so easy to learn can do his 80% punisher?

High damage ermac combos rely on counters, which are harder to force and harder to actually execute than any combo off of a knee lift (which his damage is only average). This is why he is more difficult to learn and more difficult to play with. It is strange though, that he and Human Smoke are seperated a rank on the tier list. Lao does have to go in there somewhere though.

 

[Konqrr]

How many of you players that say ermac is so easy to learn can do his 80% punisher?

High damage ermac combos rely on counters, which are harder to force and harder to actually execute than any combo off of a knee lift (which his damage is only average). This is why he is more difficult to learn and more difficult to play with. It is strange though, that he and Human Smoke are seperated a rank on the tier list. Lao does have to go in there somewhere though.

H.Smoke > Ermac due to Air Throw.

If Ermac had one he'd probably be #1

 

[mistaKM]

H.Smoke > Ermac due to Air Throw.

If Ermac had one he'd probably be #1

air throw > 80% punisher/aahp?

I do agree that human smoke is better than Ermac, though I think it's because of his ground combo.

 

[DC HUSTLE 106]

Kano pwns NW, Rep, Jax & the big tittied Blonde.

As far as Top 5 goes, I dont think their is any dispute with:

1. Kabal
2. Kung Lao
3. H.Smoke
4. Kano
5. Ermac

6-12 could go a number of different ways.

But of course, that is my opinion, and I'm sticking to it like Droopy on gay porn.

PS- the reason why most hardened XBL veterans dont consider Kano top tier is because Kano isnt as effective on a game paddle as he is with a stick player. Thats just a fact. Most of you have never seen exactly what Kano can do becauseof that hold up. Now if this tier list was for XBL play only, then Kano would be fightig to stay in the top 10.

I don't think kano pwns jax and reptile or nw.

 

[O Juggernaut 0]

Human Smoke is better than Ermac because of his air throw, he's also faster. Human Smoke also doesn't really have a counter pick. While Ermac has Nightwolf, Sheeva, and Shang Tsung, maybe even the Robots (all because they are hard to juggle, which is Ermacs main game).

Ermac is easy to learn his basic juggles, and auto-combo. But doing the advance high damaging counters, takes alot of time and practice to get the right timing down. The best feature about Ermac is his aa combo { aaHP, TKS, HP, HP, JK, TKS, aaHPHP, HP, JK }. Mid-Screen you can get 71%, Mid-Screen to barely corner (LK corner) you can get 83%, Mid-Screen to full corner (End with JK, RH, HK) is 100%. He also has a TKS start Mid-Screen 100%, TKS start corner 100%, and a RH corner 100%. His basic juggles get 40%+, and his TKS is a very very good special move, he has an FB, and can teleport.

If he had an air throw, he'd be #2 for sure.

 

[Shock]

Smoke's air throw is the definitive tier placement difference maker.

 

[mistaKM]

Human Smoke is better than Ermac because of his air throw, he's also faster. Human Smoke also doesn't really have a counter pick. While Ermac has Nightwolf, Sheeva, and Shang Tsung, maybe even the Robots (all because they are hard to juggle, which is Ermacs main game).

Ermac is easy to learn his basic juggles, and auto-combo. But doing the advance high damaging counters, takes alot of time and practice to get the right timing down. The best feature about Ermac is his aa combo { aaHP, TKS, HP, HP, JK, TKS, aaHPHP, HP, JK }. Mid-Screen you can get 71%, Mid-Screen to barely corner (LK corner) you can get 83%, Mid-Screen to full corner (End with JK, RH, HK) is 100%. He also has a TKS start Mid-Screen 100%, TKS start corner 100%, and a RH corner 100%. His basic juggles get 40%+, and his TKS is a very very good special move, he has an FB, and can teleport.

If he had an air throw, he'd be #2 for sure.

That's a joke, right? Teleporters run nightwolf.

That counter that you said does 71% actually does 82% because of the two 5.5% TKS's that are not counted on the readout, if I'm not mistaken. That's the 80% juggle I was talking about.

 

[O Juggernaut 0]

That's a joke, right? Teleporters run nightwolf.

That counter that you said does 71% actually does 82% because of the two 5.5% TKS's that are not counted on the readout, if I'm not mistaken. That's the 80% juggle I was talking about.

True, but in my experience nw is a counter because he's hard to juggle, or at least aa. Maybe it's a good match-up rather than counter, both have disadvantages.

I'm pretty sure your right about the TKS damage, I was just explaing what it reads. So I guess it's, 82%, 94%, then 100%.

 

[Lex]

kano has the most options in the game, thats why hes where hes at. sweeps + airthrow alone make him a beast. from there you compare to the other sweepers: sonya isint as good and jax has too many flaws to be better than kano. ok so kano is the best of the sweepers, its pretty obvious. with options comes control for both offense and defense. in order for ermac to shine he has to play defensive and umk3 is an offensive game. kano can shine in both offense and defense whenever he wants to.

 

[mistaKM]

Jax also has sweeps and an air throw (a better one). Sonya is the fastest character in the game and has much higher daminging combos, easier punishers, smaller hitboxs and better runjabs. I think I like Sonya a lot more than kano. Either way, "sweepers" are overrated, and that quality is not what defines sonya or jax.

 

[mistaKM]

True, but in my experience nw is a counter because he's hard to juggle, or at least aa. Maybe it's a good match-up rather than counter, both have disadvantages.

I'm pretty sure your right about the TKS damage, I was just explaing what it reads. So I guess it's, 82%, 94%, then 100%.

Hard to juggle? So you can't get a third aahp in, do the otg relaunch anyways, it's easy on nightwolf. Ermac owns him hands down no doubt about it.

 

[Derek]

Hard to juggle? So you can't get a third aahp in, do the otg relaunch anyways, it's easy on nightwolf. Ermac owns him hands down no doubt about it.

You can't get three HPs on Nightwolf? God you suck! j/k. Seriously though, it's not hard to get three HPs and a JK on Nightwolf.

 

[Lex]

Jax also has sweeps and an air throw (a better one).

hes also huge and gets bullshitted on a lot more than kano. good try tho

Sonya is the fastest character in the game and has much higher daminging combos, easier punishers, smaller hitboxs and better runjabs.

you will come to learn that all of rich's jabs dominate this game.

and fastest by what regards? hsmoke is "faster".

I think I like Sonya a lot more than kano. Either way, "sweepers" are overrated, and that quality is not what defines sonya or jax.

thanks for your opinions but I happen to know a lot more about the game on a theorist level than you do. you cannot play a sweeper properly while on an online connection, therefore you have no idea on how to play one, which explains why you think they are overrated.

 

[O Juggernaut 0]

Hard to juggle? So you can't get a third aahp in, do the otg relaunch anyways, it's easy on nightwolf. Ermac owns him hands down no doubt about it.

Well, last time I played Nightwolf with my Ermac was about 6 months ago, and I've progressed alot since then. I just remember not juggling him well, but I guess I'll have to test that. And yes, teleporters own Nightwolf.