UMK3 Tier list discussion

[Pink Godzilla]

IMO it should be:

Sonya
Stryker
Kitana
Scorpion
U-Sub

I think Scorpion is a tad bit underrated, and that Sonya through Scorpion are very close. U-Sub fits nicely right under them.

 

[DC HUSTLE 106]

LOL @ better than Stryker and Kitana. The last time I lost to U-Sub legitley was when I played Annhilator83 like last year. U-Sub is soo easy to beat, people just don't know how to. While he's easy to use, he'll only beat inexperienced players 80% of the time. He's fine where he is on the tier list IMO, even though I don't agree 100% with the current tier list.

play pajaro's sub then you will see a offensive sub.

 

[Obstruction]

Sub is atleast better then scorp. imo

 

[skateblind]

Sub is atleast better then scorp. imo

Agreed. Scorpion has not got many options in each situation, therefore it is easy for the opponent to know what to do next. U-sub can keep you guessing the whole game. TBH, I am surprised at how high scorpion is on the tier list. Yes he has an air throw, but it is rarely used and doesn't help in combos or setups/traps.
I know the teleport is probably one of the best moves in the game, but against a good opponent, scorpion has to use it to run away, not fight.

 

[O Juggernaut 0]

play pajaro's sub then you will see a offensive sub.

I yeah I bet, he's a beast with odd characters (or just anyone). I hate playing U-Subs though.

 

[Tim Static]

But Scorpion has higher damage ability, but not much. Advantage: Spectre. (over USub)

 

[Derek]

IMO it should be:

Sonya
Stryker
Kitana
Scorpion
U-Sub

I think Scorpion is a tad bit underrated, and that Sonya through Scorpion are very close. U-Sub fits nicely right under them.

You have no idea what you're talking about.

 

[mistaKM]

Teleporters are hard to counter and effective against everyone. That's why scorpion should not be any higher than he is; he's a teleporter.

Agreed. Scorpion has not got many options in each situation, therefore it is easy for the opponent to know what to do next. U-sub can keep you guessing the whole game. TBH, I am surprised at how high scorpion is on the tier list. Yes he has an air throw, but it is rarely used and doesn't help in combos or setups/traps.
I know the teleport is probably one of the best moves in the game, but against a good opponent, scorpion has to use it to run away, not fight.

You keep saying "against a good opponent"

This conversation is only relevant when your opponent is good.

 

[skateblind]

Im just saying that on the tier list, scorpion is too high and u-sub is too low. I say against a good opponent because the tier list is made with high level play in mind, therefore any good players fighting against scorpion will know what the opponent will do next in any given situation.

 

[Pink Godzilla]

Yes, but Scorpion doesn't need as much of an opening to be able to capitalize on it. Even though he has fewer options overall, I think Scorpion's are just plain better than U Sub's.

hurr

K.

 

[Shock]

Im just saying that on the tier list, scorpion is too high and u-sub is too low. I say against a good opponent because the tier list is made with high level play in mind, therefore any good players fighting against scorpion will know what the opponent will do next in any given situation.

You can say that for anyone, but air throw, teleport punch and 50% punisher on many higher up characters put Scorpion right in the middle.

 

[skateblind]

Fair enough.

 

[O Juggernaut 0]

I don't think it matters if one character is in front of another, when your talking about mid tier characters. It's all too debatable, and there's no exact 100% answer. If your talking about bottom/low tier, or top tier, it's completely different. But regarding mid tier, almost any character can be better than another, in any given situation.

 

[darxyde]

Teleport ALONE makes Scorpion top 10.

That's just my opinion. He could have no combos, I wouldn't care. being able to teleport around and basically dicate the pace of the game makes him and all teleporters very difficult to deal with.

 

[skateblind]

Scorpion does not dictate anything, he is too predictable in my opinion.

@Pheonix, you could say that about any characters that are next to each other. The tier list is meant to accurately show who is better than who, I believe that the current one is incorrect. No two characters are going to be identical, there are too many variables for that to happen, therefore there will eventually be a tier list that is 100% correct.

 

[darxyde]

Scorpion does not dictate anything, he is too predictable in my opinion.

BS.

Scorpion just like all 3 teleporters are extremely mobile and fast, after a teleport 9 times out of 10 the teleporter will rush in and start rush down just because the opponent isint quick enough to counter it. The opponent had to quickly do down/away block cause it's the only thin fast enough to do. I call that dictating the pace.

your response?

What do YOU do when someone teleports then starts run jabs on you?

 

[O Juggernaut 0]

@Pheonix

First of all I don't take people who can't spell "Phoenix" correctly seriously.

The tier list is meant to accurately show who is better than who, I believe that the current one is incorrect.

The tier list DOES NOT show who's better than who, or not in the way you describe it. Kabal vs Human Smoke doesn't always mean that Kabal will win because he's better. It explains their characteristics not how they are better than the previous characters position.

No two characters are going to be identical, there are too many variables for that to happen.

What?

therefore there will eventually be a tier list that is 100% correct.

There will never be a 100% accurate tier list ever. There's too much opinion involved.

 

[skateblind]

That depends on what character I am, I would probably sweep or something, but it all depends on a number of factors.
I know what your trying to get at and I agree that the teleport is a powerful move, but scorpion is still too predictable IMHO.
It doesn't matter anyway, I know I am not gonna get much love on this topic, I'm too inexperienced.

Phoenix, sorry for spelling your nickname wrong, Im not worthy .

The tier list is MEANT to show how good the characters are compared to each other, its not an exact science, but it could still one day be 99% accurate. If two players of EXACTLY equal skill have a match of human smoke VS kabal, then Kabal should win everytime if the tier list is correct. That is what I think the tier list is about, if I am wrong then it is not a proper tier list.
Anyway, I hate discussing definitions...

A 100% accurate tier list is probably impossible, but 99% accuracy is a big possibility if people take it seriously...

 

[darxyde]

That depends on what character I am, I would probably sweep or something, but it all depends on a number of factors.
I know what your trying to get at and I agree that the teleport is a powerful move, but scorpion is still too predictable IMHO.
It doesn't matter anyway, I know I am not gonna get much love on this topic, I'm too inexperienced.

sweep? lol.

you're gonna get autocombo'd. there just isint that much time between a teleport to sweep, in most situations. A kabal can spin if he sees it coming, a nightwolf can shoulder charge, a Kano can cannonball it, etc. and remember this is all IF THEY SEE IT COMING and can time it. Otherwise you're gonna eat some runjabs from the teleporter. Then he's gonna likely teleport again if you start trying to pressure him.

thank you for proving you dont know wtf ur talking about.

 

[dubson]

Tier lists are designed to compare characters to their full extent, at the highest possible level of play.

There is a big difference in comparing two characters to eachother and comparing a match-up.

Obviously, in the situation of playing against a teleporter, you are going to BAIT them. Not just sit in the middle of the screen and let them teleport all over the place "dictating the pace"

Come on guys, you can debate without flaming eachother.

Lets keep this civil.

 

[darxyde]

Tier lists are designed to compare characters to their full extent, at the highest possible level of play.

There is a big difference in comparing two characters to eachother and comparing a match-up.

Obviously, in the situation of playing against a teleporter, you are going to BAIT them. Not just sit in the middle of the screen and let them teleport all over the place "dictating the pace"

Come on guys, you can debate without flaming eachother.

Lets keep this civil.

I disagree. I think the tier lists are designed to show the effort you have to use to win with each character.

Kabal is the easiest to win with, Sheeva is hard to win with, etc.

And in high level play I see Ermacs, Smokes and Scorpions teleporting all over the place all the time. It's un avoidable really. The teleporter is the one who has to make the mistake and go too early, thats when they get caught and punished.

 

[dubson]

I disagree. I think the tier lists are designed to show the effort you have to use to win with each character.

Kabal is the easiest to win with, Sheeva is hard to win with, etc.

And in high level play I see Ermacs, Smokes and Scorpions teleporting all over the place all the time. It's un avoidable really. The teleporter is the one who has to make the mistake and go too early, thats when they get caught and punished.

If it is designed to show the effort you have to use to win with each character to win, dont you think Reptile would be much lower? The only 2 characters that the effort is low is with Kabal and Human Smoke. You have to put in alot of effort to win with Reptile and Kano, for example.

Disagree all you what, thats what it IS, and I know what I'm talking about. Yes, you are right in that it does take into effect "effort required", but it is only a section on how Tier Lists are built.

It takes that into affect to a certain extent, but it IS comparing characters at their highest potential. Reptile at his highest potential is VERY difficult. Kung Lao also is as high as he is because of his infinite possibilities, and I wouldnt say its "easy", its not insanely difficult either though.

If you take control of the match-up against a teleporter, you find them running and making mistakes.

Smoke and Ermac are good because they dont have to completely rely on their teleport. They are good on the ground and use their teleports in pop-ups. But without a teleport, Scorpion is worthless. He is terrible on the ground, and thats why Smoke and Ermac are so much higher up than Scorpion. Thats why you really cant compare him to them.

While we're talking DarXyd, go ahead and send me a friend request on XBL, as we are playing eachother this week, and some times your free and such.

 

[skateblind]

thank you for proving you dont know wtf ur talking about.

Cheers.

 

[darxyde]

While we're talking DarXyd, go ahead and send me a friend request on XBL, as we are playing eachother this week, and some times your free and such.

you go ahead and send me one.

Im not looking forward to playing you since last time there was so much delay.

How about this - I'll pick a teleporter every single time and you pick a non-teleporter every single time? See what you think then.

 

[dubson]

you go ahead and send me one.

Im not looking forward to playing you since last time there was so much delay.

How about this - I'll pick a teleporter every single time and you pick a non-teleporter every single time? See what you think then.

Are you so godly of a player in that your going to change my opinions?

Im not going to argue with you Darxyd, you made some strong points as did I, and I agreed with you.

But if you like sometime we can play a friendly series, you pick a teleporter, I'll just pick Kitana and we'll see how it goes for eachother.

I'll send you a request on live, let me know what kind of times your available for our league match via PM or something.