UMK3 Tier list discussion

[darxyde]

Are you so godly of a player in that your going to change my opinions?

Im not going to argue with you Darxyd, you made some strong points as did I.

But if you like sometime we can play a friendly series, you pick a teleporter, I'll just pick Kitana and we'll see how it goes for eachother.

I'll send you a request on live, let me know what kind of times your available for our league match via PM or something.

I know your very good, as I am, but delay ruins our competition.

Other people say they dont have delay with you? thats fine. But not everyone livesin cental Virginia as I do.

I'll accept ur FR if u send one.

 

[DC HUSTLE 106]

Kitana fucks up teleporters, so does robot smoke in my hands.

 

[mistaKM]

That depends on what character I am, I would probably sweep or something, but it all depends on a number of factors.
I know what your trying to get at and I agree that the teleport is a powerful move, but scorpion is still too predictable IMHO.
It doesn't matter anyway, I know I am not gonna get much love on this topic, I'm too inexperienced.

@Phoenix, sorry for spelling your nickname wrong, Im not worthy .

The tier list is MEANT to show how good the characters are compared to each other, its not an exact science, but it could still one day be 99% accurate. If two players of EXACTLY equal skill have a match of human smoke VS kabal, then Kabal should win everytime if the tier list is correct. That is what I think the tier list is about, if I am wrong then it is not a proper tier list.
Anyway, I hate discussing definitions...

A 100% accurate tier list is probably impossible, but 99% accuracy is a big possibility if people take it seriously...

Dude you gotta quit saying that. The character isn't predictable, the player is. I could beat you 99 times out of 100 with scorpion, would you still consider him predictable?

I like Kung Lao, Stryker, and Kitana against teleporters. I'm startin to really dig reptile against them too. Teleporters aren't as much of a counter for Reptile as I thought. He can't throw as many forceballs-oh well. It's not that big of a deal.

 

[Pink Godzilla]

I like playing Cyrax against teleporters. Well, I like playing Cyrax against pretty much everyone, but people like to counterpick Cyrax with teleporters, so I've had lots of practice using traps and setups against them. Punishing teleporters with Scorpion is fun as hell too.

 

[darxyde]

I like playing Cyrax against teleporters. Well, I like playing Cyrax against pretty much everyone, but people like to counterpick Cyrax with teleporters, so I've had lots of practice using traps and setups against them. Punishing teleporters with Scorpion is fun as hell too.

If we ever play, I will make sure to pick scorpion against ur Cyrax.

should be fun.

 

[skateblind]

Im sorry but I just feel scorpion is too predictable, he has not got many moves therefore the player using him has only a few options in every situation. It is so easy sometimes to trick people into teleporting. Imagine 2 people of equal skill both using him in a match, they will just be running away via teleports and run jabbing when they can...

 

[O Juggernaut 0]

Im sorry but I just feel scorpion is too predictable, he has not got many moves therefore the player using him has only a few options in every situation. It is so easy sometimes to trick people into teleporting. Imagine 2 people of equal skill both using him in a match, they will just be running away via teleports and run jabbing when they can...

From your posts I imagine your not a very good player. No offense, but i'm just going by what you've said, and keep saying. Yes scorpion has limited moves, but that doesn't make him predictable. Depends on the player using him, not the character himself.

 

[skateblind]

I just feel that most high level players use the same tactics when it comes to certain characters. I see a lot of the same tactics being used by scorpion players, I barely see u-sub being played in similar ways.

Im sorry if I have pissed you guys off, I will not say another word about scorpion being predictable. There is more support for him not being predictable, so I shall admit defeat on this point.

 

[Pink Godzilla]

If we ever play, I will make sure to pick scorpion against ur Cyrax.

should be fun.

And I'll take that match if it happens.

 

[DC HUSTLE 106]

I just feel that most high level players use the same tactics when it comes to certain characters. I see a lot of the same tactics being used by scorpion players, I barely see u-sub being played in similar ways.

Im sorry if I have pissed you guys off, I will not say another word about scorpion being predictable. There is more support for him not being predictable, so I shall admit defeat on this point.

Everyone has their own style.

 

[Pink Godzilla]

Yeah, I probably hit Scorpion with Cyrax 100% combos the most. Fun shit.

 

[Derek]

Yes, but Scorpion doesn't need as much of an opening to be able to capitalize on it. Even though he has fewer options overall, I think Scorpion's are just plain better than U Sub's.

What options does Scorpion have that are better than U. Sub? He can't out turtle him and in the hands of a good player he can't out rush him. Look at the basics. The Ice Clone is very good, it can be used offensively and defensively. It enables you to run and rush at the same time. The slide, even though it's risky online with delay is hard to punish and it can frequently break someone out of run-jabs if they aren't tight run jabs. His combos aren't very high in damage but he can kill someone in three combos. SUJK kick start auto-comb does 34% or 36%(I don't remember) three in one round and the dude is done. Anti-air basic combo that anyone and everyone does is 34% three of those in one round and the dude is done.

Now ask yourself how often do you find yourself doing a high damage combo with Scorpion? All of his moves are nowhere near as safe as U. Sub's. A blocked spear, easily punishable. A blocked teleport, easily punishable. So what if you go for a jump in JPS combo? You're probably going to get aaRH'd or aaHP'd leaning towards a half-decent combo at the least.

However, U. Sub can avoid all of these problems with the Ice Clone and Ice Shower. If played right his risk to punishment level is very low compared to that of Scorpion's. He is a safer character to play and that's why in the words of Shock himself "Unmasked Sub-zero is considered a low tier character in the 20s, perhaps even last, but there is a a certain level of effort behind this generally defensive character that can make him into a beast." Even though Shock's numbered list places him lower than Scorpion.

He requires effort but he's still a better character than Scorpion.

Oh and you still have no idea what you're talking about.

CYRAX HE DA BEST!

 

[Shock]

Remember, the tier list isn't "Shock's List"

 

[Derek]

Remember, the tier list isn't "Shock's List"

At the end of the day it is. You defend all the placement of the characters, you have the ability to edit said placement, you wrote part of all the guides. I think it would be a lot less disputed if you took away the number rankings though and just listed it as Top, High, Upper, Mid, Lower, Bottom instead of numbers next to the characters, group them.

 

[Konqrr]

Scorpion has the obvious male ninja normals which are almost all better (uSub HK), an air throw, and a teleport. He out turtles uSub and has better rj options too.

Scorpion > uSub

Not Shock's list, it's a proven list and you should know this.

 

[Derek]

Scorpion has the obvious male ninja normals which are almost all better (uSub HK), an air throw, and a teleport. He out turtles uSub and has better rj options too.

Scorpion > uSub

Not Shock's list, it's a proven list and you should know this.

It's not proven when it's disputed, silly Konqrr.

 

[Shock]

But at the beginning of the day, the guides and tier list are comprised and resulted from information from over a decade of UMK3 gameplay, not just my own, in fact a significant portion of it was from Lex's guide on srk, ded also played a big role in getting them written up. I put a lot of wording behind it.

Just about all the reasoning seen in this thread to merely change the numeric location of characters is based on what they've experience through netplay and that isn't going to change anything except how the actual game is played. Btw, there are about 6 other people on this site who can edit the tier list in this thread and others who defend the tier list as well. If they list is put into groups, there will still be disputes about their tier location. If you make the tiers bigger, then the placement of characters is still very much an issue.

Anyone can dispute anything.

 

[rzpmkkteam]

But at the beginning of the day, the guides and tier list are comprised and resulted from information from over a decade of UMK3 gameplay, not just my own, in fact a significant portion of it was from Lex's guide on srk, ded also played a big role in getting them written up. I put a lot of wording behind it.

Just about all the reasoning seen in this thread to merely change the numeric location of characters is based on what they've experience through netplay and that isn't going to change anything except how the actual game is played. Btw, there are about 6 other people on this site who can edit the tier list in this thread and others who defend the tier list as well. If they list is put into groups, there will still be disputes about their tier location. If you make the tiers bigger, then the placement of characters is still very much an issue.

Anyone can dispute anything.

Why don´t you just put on a Official thread on this forum the Tier List of Every Country and then just leave it "sticked" for all players? i meant in every country there are different gameplay of this game... well it´s just a idea...

 

[Shock]

Venezuela Top Tier:

1. Nightwolf
2. Kabal
3. Nightwolf
4. Human Smoke
5. Nightwolf

 

[skateblind]

A tier list for different countries? The game is the same everywhere, there is no difference in which country it is played. You could have a tier list for every race it is played by or better yet, have a tier list for different state of minds, such as being stoned or drunk...

 

[Dreamcatcher]

A tier list for different countries? The game is the same everywhere, there is no difference in which country it is played. You could have a tier list for every race it is played by or better yet, have a tier list for different state of minds, such as being stoned or drunk...

Wow dude, read between the lines.

Venezuela Top Tier:

1. Nightwolf
2. Kabal
3. Nightwolf
4. Human Smoke
5. Nightwolf

 

[skateblind]

Shocks posted while I was typing mine, so I didn't see it by the time I posted. I dont see what difference it would have made anyway. Cheers for showing me something that was pretty obvious...
I may sound like a dumbass, but...huh...wait...nope I forgot what I was going to say, maybe you can fill me in again...

 

[Tim Static]

Venezuela Top Tier:

1. Nightwolf
2. Kabal
3. Nightwolf
4. Human Smoke
5. Nightwolf

LOL, QFT.

@Skateblind, this is a long going joke/argument between Team MKK and US players.

USe the search function and you'll be enlightened.

 

[skateblind]

Cheers Tim.

 

[mistaKM]

Wow dude, read between the lines.

lol read what rzp said on the previous page