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MK9: Unofficial Tier List Speculation, and/or Character Shenanigans Discussion!

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THTB

Arez | Booya | Riu48 - Rest Easy, Friends
Tom was punishing Kung for 30% for a blocked spin. This is why nerfing the spin right now isn't something you wanna do yet.
 

Sequel

Boob Titbot
Tom was punishing Kung for 30% for a blocked spin. This is why nerfing the spin right now isn't something you wanna do yet.
That's one of the reasons yes.

Tom was also blocking low more often because against Lao you don't have to fear an overhead OTG like Cage has (which was throwing off PL in some rounds).

Also there were parts when PL was just too aggressive for his own good. I remember watching it on the stream yelling STOP PUSHING BUTTONS. lol But it was too late, Tom had already capitalized on it.

I'm not saying Lao shouldn't be nerfed, I'm saying it's far too early to tell what exactly that nerf should be.
 

MKF30

Fujin and Ermac for MK 11
I have noticed Kung Lao has risk against Ermac, example....if he teleports since it's so slow and I jump anticipating it Ermac gets a free combo every time via TKS, this has yet to fail me unless there's MASSIVE and I mean MASSIVE, horrible lag and delay. It's also worked offline just for test.

IMO I think Kung Lao can be dealt with with another teleporting character, Ermac, Smoke, Scorp etc among more easier then a non-teleporter. His spin aside.

But at the same time if he got nerfed, I wouldn't complain. I do think he has a shitload of moves that also make him very good, I mean ground hat saw, bouncing hat toss, controlled hat toss, ex hat toss which keeps you in the air like kitana's fans, teleport with 3 options, spin that comes out lightning fast, dart kick that's great, one of the fastest or appears to be among the fastest in the game lol I mean he's loaded overall.
 

Tom Brady

Champion
do not nerf KL spin. its already punished by a dash in then MAX combo punishment by almost every character. its not hard to punish. nothing is easy about mk9, stop saying "newer games get simpler". stop crying and start learning.
 

DanCock

Cock Master!!
I give up.... it's not just the spin, its the fact he has everything. everything i mentioned and some more like if i attempt an air fireball he can teleport and throw me while im in the air. the game isn't balanced. whatever I'm a noob scrub player. I have to counter pick if I want to compete. something I was hoping this Mk wasn't going to be like.


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dookieagain

Last Bastion of Arcades
do not nerf KL spin. its already punished by a dash in then MAX combo punishment by almost every character. its not hard to punish. nothing is easy about mk9, stop saying "newer games get simpler". stop crying and start learning.
I do agree with this, but I want to say that without frame data and without a working record in training mode it isn't as though they've made learning to punish things easy. I spend a lot of time setting the AI in training mode to medium and hoping I get some of the moves I'm trying to learn to punish, which is a pretty atrocious way to find out the timing. Plus I use a character whose combo starter is kind of slow, so I'm still torn on when it's the punishment option I want.
 

oZii

Mortal
Just to point out the title of the thread is Tier list and Character discussions. Right now Kung Lao is the discussion but there is also 2 pages of Noob Saibot discussion also and good smoke discussion.

Just saying before people get upset this is what this thread is for if 5 people say they think Kung Lao needs a nerf to spin then it is ok cause thats what this thread is about general character discussion.

Opinion is ok
 

BATTLEBEAR

NJ Jobber
Kung is for sure fast and hits like a truck but he isn't broken It might be hard to see b/c NRS has not released frame data, but the spin isn't safe. Also the teleport mixups are tricky, but just like anything, you just have to be patient, keep an open eye and LEARN how to fight. This is why shit like mvc3 is shit... because things get nerfed too early before people can step up to a challenge and learn to overcome match ups that provide important data for each character respectively.
 
The Match on WNF with Krazie and Justin was a good example. Krazie was jumping at justin and eating the 30-40% but Ermac can do that cause he can dish out 40% consistently. Some characters can't compete with that damage.
Nerves aside, KrayzieBone left a lot of punishable moves, unpunished. I think he guarded some dive kicks, against Kung Lao during the flipping recovery part and he let it go without even so much as an uppercut.

do not nerf KL spin. its already punished by a dash in then MAX combo punishment by almost every character. its not hard to punish. nothing is easy about mk9, stop saying "newer games get simpler". stop crying and start learning.
You missed some punishes on the spin, yourself. I'd just chock it up to nervousness to perform. Given how fast the move starts up, and the reward when it makes contact it being punishable with a larger window I think goes without question. Right now it just doesn't add up. The type of recovery it has, lends itself to going unpunished due to nerves and the heat of battle.

You played other fighters before, you know the risk/reward on the move is skewed(and there are plenty of other moves with other characters that have skewed risk/rewards as well), and you shouldn't even have to dash in to punish that move, but it has to be done.

I guess I just come from a different game(VF), a move with that much utility with relative to the rest of their movelist, and the damage and speed with it, comes with a much larger or tell tale punishable risk(not necessarily on guard, either). Even a more obvious visual sign of it at least resembling being punishable.

It could be an entirely different story if the move only popped up for combos on counter hits or just the enhanced version went on for combo damage.

As a matter of fact, they don't have to touch the reward from the spin or even its speed. Just it's punishability. The game already has breakers, so if Kung is getting punished for it he can get out once.
 

THTB

Arez | Booya | Riu48 - Rest Easy, Friends
So far I haven't seen this game to be anywhere near imbalanced. I mean, Kung has all his shit, Sub's a nightmare, but the characters aren't untouchable by any means. Hell, there are maybe 3-4 characters in the game that are simply not good and impossible to win with.
 
So far I haven't seen this game to be anywhere near imbalanced. I mean, Kung has all his shit, Sub's a nightmare, but the characters aren't untouchable by any means. Hell, there are maybe 3-4 characters in the game that are simply not good and impossible to win with.
Sheeva, Baraka, who else?
 

DanCock

Cock Master!!
with online being crap and no record feature. people like myself don't have anybody to train offline with. so at this point I don't even plan on going to anymore offline events because I can't even properly prepare. so I can't prepare, I'm already set up
to fail at tourneys. why waste 500 bucks when I know I'm going to lose.


FYI I'm not saying the spin is broke or Kung is broke I'm just saying why does he have every fucking tool to win and other characters don't.

again I'm a scrub noob player so ignore me. thanks.


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So far I haven't seen this game to be anywhere near imbalanced. I mean, Kung has all his shit, Sub's a nightmare, but the characters aren't untouchable by any means. Hell, there are maybe 3-4 characters in the game that are simply not good and impossible to win with.
It's not about the characters being untouchable, cause I don't think the game has balance issues on playability. As far as I know, the game has some good core guessing games, that every character has access to and can enforce, so the game is pretty balanced at it's core atm.

But what I'm talking about is an imbalance with skews in the risk/reward within the movelist of a given character. The utility and rewards of the move, doesn't balance out the risk involved. The speed of the move alone and the reward alone, already insures that the move is going to hit often.

It's a commonly landed move. It starts up fast, you use it in many many situations in place of other moves, making some moves not even worth doing in certain situations, because the spin serves that purpose with better reward. And then, if the move gets guarded the opponent has to be on watch(as some of you guys say, if you're a "jedi") to make certain that they punish it in time or could get spun for trying.

For the record, I don't think the game needs buffs tweaks or nerfs, to compensate for online play or anything like that either(online play for this game is terrible and should never be considered in case you were wondering). Certain moves just need a larger punishment window for their utility based on start up speed and reward.
 

RWDY Nori

MK is kinda dope
I seems general consensus among ol school and new school MK players that the spin needs a slight nerf.
How exactly did you come to that conclusion? I see more people saying "don't nerf" vs what you are suggesting. I think too many people are watching vids and getting scared of what he could do, instead of actually trying to punish it w/your char
 

RWDY Nori

MK is kinda dope
nothing is easy about mk9, stop saying "newer games get simpler"
Not sure if this is a reference to my post or not, but it's a fact the new incarnation of games (mvc3/sf4/sc4/t6) have gotten a lot easier. Nor did I (nor I believe anybody else) say this game is "easy". I think it's hard and fast paced and quite possibly the best FG to come out in the last 10 years. I think NRS did a good job of pleasing new school and old school players.

If this wasn't a reference to my post ignore this

Dancock: You are in NY. How do you have nobody to practice with? You don't know ANYBODY that will drive to play games with you on the weekend? And going to offline tournaments to get your ass whooped is by far WAY more effective than learning online anyday. That's how all the old school people started and it still works
 

lobo

woof.
at this point, with the exception of unbreakable, repeating combos...nothing in this game needs a nerf...at all.

saying "nerf ____" before you could possible have had a chance to thoroughly explore beating it is laughably scrubby.
 

Krayzie

Co-founder
Administrator
Founder
I didn't lose because Kung Lao is overpowered... I lost because I didn't understand the match up, and with that comes even mistakes you wouldn't think a player would be making in a finals match...

I was mad at myself for not punishing the many spins I baited out, at times I accidentally jumped back when I wanted to execute gravity push, or even B2. You shouldn't not ever miss a punish against Kung Lao. Its free damage. This tournament isn't over, and I will come back next week and finish.

You set yourself up to fail when you deviate from fixing mistakes, for an easy way out.
 

Lucky Day

Kombatant
Dancock: You are in NY. How do you have nobody to practice with? You don't know ANYBODY that will drive to play games with you on the weekend? And going to offline tournaments to get your ass whooped is by far WAY more effective than learning online anyday. That's how all the old school people started and it still works
NY is a pretty big state man. Dan is upstate to the North, and the main MK scene that everyone knows of is closer to NYC.
 

THTB

Arez | Booya | Riu48 - Rest Easy, Friends
Again, just let the game play out...people are BARELY used to the game as it is. Give people enough time to get used to punishing it on reaction. It's too early to actually change anything aside from infinites and the like. Just leave it as is...the fact that it is punishable is enough for now. If it becomes a bigger problem than it already is, it'll be changed.
 

RWDY Nori

MK is kinda dope
NY is a pretty big state man. Dan is upstate to the North, and the main MK scene that everyone knows of is closer to NYC.
I'm from Long Island, I know NY is big. However, NY has LOTS of players also, so I find it hard to believe that nobody is around him. Not saying he's lying at all, just saying he should be more aggressive in trying to get people to play w/him to help him get better that's all
 

oZii

Mortal
How exactly did you come to that conclusion? I see more people saying "don't nerf" vs what you are suggesting. I think too many people are watching vids and getting scared of what he could do, instead of actually trying to punish it w/your char
Think spin needs adjusting or Kung Adjustment in general Starting from page 7:
Konqrr
Tim Static
Water
oZii
Dan Cock
Lady Death (I think from her post)
Action Kungfu
oJuggernaughto
Dookieagain
MKF30

Kung Is fine or let it play out starting from page 7:
Nori
Tom Brady
Sequel
Reo
THTB
Luxus Nights
R.E.L.
Battle Bear
Lobo


Its 11 to 9 so far if you go from page 7. Its on 2 pages I dont know why people are getting so antsy. I like the discussion. My opinion is it needs tweaking thats just my opinion.

So as it stands now we are both wrong.
 

Krayzie

Co-founder
Administrator
Founder
Think spin needs adjusting or Kung Adjustment in general Starting from page 7:
Konqrr
MKF30
Tim Static
Water
oZii
Dan Cock
Lady Death (I think from her post)
Action Kungfu
oJuggernaughto
Dookieagain
MKF30

Kung Is fine or let it play out starting from page 7:
Nori
Tom Brady
Sequel
Reo
THTB
Luxus Nights
R.E.L.
Battle Bear
Lobo


Its 11 to 9 so far if you go from page 7. Its on 2 pages I dont know why people are getting so antsy. I like the discussion. My opinion is it needs tweaking thats just my opinion.

So as it stands now we are both wrong.
You missed my post, and not only added MKF30 to the first list, but added him twice...

I call cheats.
 

lobo

woof.
my vote counts for 7 on account of inherent awesomeness.

the reality is that whether or not the move is broken, if it looks broken to scrubs it should still probably be nerfed. in this day and age of streams, the image of a game to noobs is just as important as the balance is to good players. after ONE big event, though, there is no way to even begin to assume anything.
 
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