Match-up Discussion Johnny Cage: Official Matchup Discussion

[salvificblood]

Cage is a punk and a meter thief. That is all.

 

[Sao87]

Thanks nBe the chart has been updated.

 

[crosstalk]

I've been looking at the Rain matchup, and think it might be 6-4 in Cage's favor. I don't have much Rain experience so I'm putting on my theory glasses here, but Rain obviously can't zone Cage out as bubble and lightning are pretty slow and punishable. Spray seems decent though as it's kind of like Sektor's flamethrower. Up close, I feel Cage can overwhelm Rain as Rain only has EX RH, his d1, and EX/regular teleport to get out. His EX RH, EX teleport, and d1 seem to be the only ways to escape, and I feel his EX moves can be baited easily. What do you guys think?

 

[Dizzy]

That's downplaying his ex RH a lot. It grants a combo on hit and is safe on block. To bait it you have to njp or cross over, either will get you blown up against a good player if he decides not to ex RH and still block.

His zoning does blow for the most part. Its not like he's trying to keep JC out all match though. His up close game is pretty good though. For cage to get out of pressure he has to commit to an unsafe move, rain doesn't. Cages pressure is better but rain is the group of chars with safe armor that have the easiest time dealing with cage's pressure. Imo rain, sonya and kenshi are the 3 chars that cage has the hardest time pressuring due to their high reward and low risk armor moves. (Combo on hit, safe on block)

I say its 5-5. My rain exp is from playing Medina4life and IKizzLE

 

[Salad Petresky]

What up guys, can someone please break down for me the JC and sonya MU. I find that this match up is pretty hard considering every string is a risk of getting armored out + 30% damage + reset and sonya is perfectly safe after ex kartwheel. Please get technical, im not a beginner go into strings if you have to. Thanks guys

 

[crosstalk]

That's downplaying his ex RH a lot. It grants a combo on hit and is safe on block. To bait it you have to njp or cross over, either will get you blown up against a good player if he decides not to ex RH and still block.

His zoning does blow for the most part. Its not like he's trying to keep JC out all match though. His up close game is pretty good though. For cage to get out of pressure he has to commit to an unsafe move, rain doesn't. Cages pressure is better but rain is the group of chars with safe armor that have the easiest time dealing with cage's pressure. Imo rain, sonya and kenshi are the 3 chars that cage has the hardest time pressuring due to their high reward and low risk armor moves. (Combo on hit, safe on block)

I say its 5-5. My rain exp is from playing Medina4life and IKizzLE

I played some good Rains recently, and EX RH is definitely a bigger threat than I thought. Without meter he's pretty free, but what character isn't against Cage haha. I think 5-5 is good right now.

 

[Playpal]

What up guys, can someone please break down for me the JC and sonya MU. I find that this match up is pretty hard considering every string is a risk of getting armored out + 30% damage + reset and sonya is perfectly safe after ex kartwheel. Please get technical, im not a beginner go into strings if you have to. Thanks guys

Here's a post I made on the second page.

She builds meter like a beast and has the best defensive tool in the game: ex cartwheel. I've played lots of Sonyas recently (my set with gamerblake is in the video thread) and it's very hard to get much block strings without eventually being interrupted. JC just has to work harder. Coincidentally, Sonya's probably the only character in the game where ex shadow kick is useless full screen; do it too early and you'll lose armor and get hit by the ring, do it too late and you'll get blocked.

 

[cR WoundCowboy]

5-5 Shang, Shangs frametraps arent good enough to keep Cage locked down, but Cages destroy Shang, but Shang can trap him from fullscreen. Also I think Cage can interupt Shangs F434 with a B3, was thinking about that yesterday need to test it.

I don't see why Cage's frametraps "destroy" Shang. Shang has every tool to get out: fast pokes, good normals and at last resort, armor. Not to mention the fact that being neutral on block is not a true frame trap, whereas Shang is plus 2 off of almost any string. Shang can outzone and out frame trap Cage- there is no way this is an even matchup. As for F+4,3,4, it might be possible for Cage to interrupt if Shang starts the string from too far away. Even then, you risk eating a combo for trying it. It doesn't make that much of a difference though because most good Shangs will not use the full string anyways.

 

[A F0xy Grampa]

I don't see why Cage's frametraps "destroy" Shang. Shang has every tool to get out: fast pokes, good normals and at last resort, armor. Not to mention the fact that being neutral on block is not a true frame trap, whereas Shang is plus 2 off of almost any string. Shang can outzone and out frame trap Cage- there is no way this is an even matchup. As for F+4,3,4, it might be possible for Cage to interrupt if Shang starts the string from too far away. Even then, you risk eating a combo for trying it. It doesn't make that much of a difference though because most good Shangs will not use the full string anyways.

Being neutral on block isnt a frame trap, but its advantage for Cage against most characters since all of his normals are 9 or less frames. Shang guessing full screen frame traps is just as much as a risk, miss 1 skull and you get jump kicked its round over.

Basically theres more guess work in defending against Cage than there is a against Shang, even if Shang catches you its alot less life lost than when Cage catches you.

 

[mekane]

Being neutral on block isnt a frame trap, but its advantage for Cage against most characters since all of his normals are 9 or less frames. Shang guessing full screen frame traps is just as much as a risk, miss 1 skull and you get jump kicked its round over.

Basically theres more guess work in defending against Cage than there is a against Shang, even if Shang catches you its alot less life lost than when Cage catches you.

i think you'll find it a hard time jumping in on a good shang. and that close up skull landing will lead to huge damage almost anywhere on the screen.

 

[A F0xy Grampa]

i think you'll find it a hard time jumping in on a good shang. and that close up skull landing will lead to huge damage almost anywhere on the screen.

Its hard jumping against any1, but shang has to guess when he does his skulls, a successful JK from cage is alot more than a skull from shang

 

[cR WoundCowboy]

Its hard jumping against any1, but shang has to guess when he does his skulls, a successful JK from cage is alot more than a skull from shang

He doesn't have to use a skull to anti air cage- standing 1 works just fine. Also, there is not as much risk for him to throw out close ground skulls. It only takes one blocked to skull to put Cage at a disadvantage and into Shang's guessing game.

 

[A F0xy Grampa]

Looks like I'm not explaining it right, I'd have to play it to show what I mean

 

[Mikemetroid]

Looks like I'm not explaining it right, I'd have to play it to show what I mean

I can't explain anything that well through text. You're not alone.

 

[HGTV Soapboxfan]

hey f0xy, i see you keep talking about hitting a jik vs shang tsung. why not jip if the tsung player used the wrong skull? am i missing something obvious here?

 

[cR WoundCowboy]

The only time Shang should use medium and far skulls is in a combo or at full screen. Anything else means a close ground skull, which is not really much of a guess. Also, I don't see why you would say a jump kick is a lot more than a groundskull. The jump kick grants a little bit of damage and a knockdown, whereas a groundskull yields a full combo into a SS or upskull reset.

 

[A F0xy Grampa]

The only time Shang should use medium and far skulls is in a combo or at full screen. Anything else means a close ground skull, which is not really much of a guess. Also, I don't see why you would say a jump kick is a lot more than a groundskull. The jump kick grants a little bit of damage and a knockdown, whereas a groundskull yields a full combo into a SS or upskull reset.

Cages Jump kick isnt a knockdown, its a nutpunch

 

[cR WoundCowboy]

Cages Jump kick isnt a knockdown, its a nutpunch

Only if it is deep or in the corner.

 

[salvificblood]

I firmly believe you need an ice clone, 8 frame d4 and an armoured corner reversal to deal with cage.

I think Cage does perfectly well against Shang, too, by the way. It's the same reason I think Cage can be OK against Noob Saibot, too. Once he gets in, you may as well put the controller down at times. You need a contingency plan against Cage's bs. What is Shang going to do once Cage gets going?

 

[YOMI DJT]

cage get in on any char then he can win. keep cage out and you'll definitely win against him.

 

[crosstalk]

cage get in on any char then he can win. keep cage out and you'll definitely win against him.

For most characters, I'd agree. A lot of characters have armor moves to deal with Cage up close (Sub, Rain, Sonya, Kabal, etc.), or just have really good pokes (Shang, Kitana, Sonya, etc.) that can also give Cage trouble. Some characters, like Mileena, Freddy, or Sindel, can get blown up due to their lack of armor or pokes. However, Freddy and Sindel have excellent zoning ability so they can definitely keep Cage out, but if Cage gets in they're in trouble. I feel like the community matchup list portrays this pretty well - characters that have good zoning ability and either good pokes or armored moves (or even both) are definitely Cage's bad matchups.

 

[Mikemetroid]

For most characters, I'd agree. A lot of characters have armor moves to deal with Cage up close (Sub, Rain, Sonya, Kabal, etc.), or just have really good pokes (Shang, Kitana, Sonya, etc.) that can also give Cage trouble. Some characters, like Mileena, Freddy, or Sindel, can get blown up due to their lack of armor or pokes. However, Freddy and Sindel have excellent zoning ability so they can definitely keep Cage out, but if Cage gets in they're in trouble. I feel like the community matchup list portrays this pretty well - characters that have good zoning ability and either good pokes or armored moves (or even both) are definitely Cage's bad matchups.

Actually any armor move that can't be countered with an ex move really hurts Cage. Most of the time you can really predict when people are going to do armored moves. But there are characters (Like Sonya's EX Cartwheel) that can out play Cage's ex moves. The other's are ex moves catch me off guard when I'm not playing smart.

 

[crosstalk]

Actually any armor move that can't be countered with an ex move really hurts Cage. Most of the time you can really predict when people are going to do armored moves. But there are characters (Like Sonya's EX Cartwheel) that can out play Cage's ex moves. The other's are ex moves catch me off guard when I'm not playing smart.

True, another good example is F33 beating Raiden's EX grab. And yeah, Sonya is a pain. F0xy was doing pretty well against Death's Sonya in their video series. He was punishing EX cartwheel with njp, I didn't even know that worked lol.

 

[Peckapowa]

Actually any armor move that can't be countered with an ex move really hurts Cage. Most of the time you can really predict when people are going to do armored moves. But there are characters (Like Sonya's EX Cartwheel) that can out play Cage's ex moves. The other's are ex moves catch me off guard when I'm not playing smart.

sonya is rough u got njp that hoe but that bitches d4 is too good.

 

[HGTV Soapboxfan]

hey idk if you guys have gone over this b4, but i need some help in the kabal mu. i am able to get by the zoning fairly well, but my main problem comes when i am at about jumping range, i cant seem to be able to contain him. he gets out of the corner by using his dash cancels and forcing me to block, and then doing a cross over jumpkick, and then he gets to instant air across the screen again. any advice?