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Reiko General Discussion

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kantboy2

Pale Rider
Stars canceling opponents fireballs would be perfect; he's a grappler, slowly, but surely, out fast projectile lets us get closer.

Across the screen, we'll keep throwing and eventualy the opponent will realize they're not winning that fight unless they got a life lead with little time on the clock. Reverse that, and we're on the driver seat. We throw them faster and they have to come to us, the grappler.
 

Felipe_Gewehr

Twinktile
Mileena's half-screen projectile being able to eat up our projectiles, especially the EX version, is so laughably disgusting.
There's not a single reason for Mileena to be doing her half screen projectile as a counter to Reiko's stars. If you read he is going to do the stars, you either roll under it or do an EX upwards teleport for a full combo punish, so this isn't a real problem, it's just a quirky side effect. Kinda like when Smoke does f4 while Reptile does the slide - they'll both miss eachother while Smoke "glides" over Reptile.
 

Eldriken

Life was wasted on you.
There's not a single reason for Mileena to be doing her half screen projectile as a counter to Reiko's stars. If you read he is going to do the stars, you either roll under it or do an EX upwards teleport for a full combo punish, so this isn't a real problem, it's just a quirky side effect. Kinda like when Smoke does f4 while Reptile does the slide - they'll both miss eachother while Smoke "glides" over Reptile.
That wasn't my point. I was just saying something as bland as her fading projectile can still eat ours.
 

NHDR

Kombatant
In light of the projectile nerfs, is there a point to using any kameo other than Tremor? Seems the most ideal for maximizing air and ground command throws.
 

skcuf

Noob
Has anyone found a use for the knee 'buff?' It seems to only really matter if you're entering the combo with ex knee and doesn't do anything more than regular knee mid combo. Seems like a pointless maneuver and the slide is still the better way to use it.
 

Eldriken

Life was wasted on you.
In light of the projectile nerfs, is there a point to using any kameo other than Tremor? Seems the most ideal for maximizing air and ground command throws.
You can use Sektor or Lao if you want to be annoying, but that's about it. It doesn't really lead to any good conversions or combo routes. It seems Tremor is pretty much his best Kameo.

Has anyone found a use for the knee 'buff?' It seems to only really matter if you're entering the combo with ex knee and doesn't do anything more than regular knee mid combo. Seems like a pointless maneuver and the slide is still the better way to use it.
The EX knee change was absolutely pointless. It allows for different combos, but they're not as good as the BnBs/optimals that we get from other avenues. I don't ever use it.
 

NoCharge

Apprentice
Has anyone found a use for the knee 'buff?' It seems to only really matter if you're entering the combo with ex knee and doesn't do anything more than regular knee mid combo. Seems like a pointless maneuver and the slide is still the better way to use it.
Yeah, its useless.
 

Eldriken

Life was wasted on you.
I wouldn't mind reverting the change to EX knee and his air command grab being removed and getting our old projectile back. The changes to Reiko didn't enhance his gameplay at all in any meaningful capacity. It seems like they nerfed his projectile into the ground and tried to cover up the nerf with some "buffs" that are ultimately dogshit.

Every projectile in the game shouldn't beat his. The projectiles should cancel each other out unless the opponent uses the EX version and we don't. If we both use an EX projectile and theirs doesn't normally destroy other projectiles, they cancel each other out. If theirs destroys other projectiles when using the EX version, it should destroy our EX version as it normally would. This would only apply to Reiko's projectile versus other characters. Any other MU in the game with projectiles would proceed as normal like it currently does.

He loses every projectile war in the game, even against characters who don't have one if they use Sareena or any other Kameo with a projectile and a decent cooldown timer.

I don't think Reiko should have ever been as capable of a zoner as he was, but it definitely wasn't busted. It's not our fault people don't lab things and see that his projectile is -39 on whiff. Pokes on block into his projectile is such a gimmick and truly only works against people lacking proper MU knowledge or if you EX it to make them mids. Every character in the game gets a full combo against Reiko after a poke on block into his projectile. Yeah, there's a mental stack there if he's gonna poke into a different special (slide, knee or tackle), but you can literally hold block until you see Reiko start his projectile animation and then let go of block, let all three whiff and then get your punish.

It's shades of MKX's Full Auto Jacqui all over again. People whined and complained from the beginning all the way to the end of MKX's lifecycle about Full Auto all because they refused to let go of block and ate vast amounts of chip while she built vast amounts of meter, didn't know how to walk forward after neutral ducking, etc. And look at her upclose game in any of her variations compared to Reiko's. Full Auto definitely had no business having a good projectile.

Keep in mind that this is coming from someone who doesn't try and sit back and throw projectiles all day. Not in serious matches, anyway. I'll do it when fucking around with someone because I'm trolling them due to it being humorous that they are unable to handle them. In matches where I'm playing to win, however? Most of the time I won't use them that often, but it also does depend on the MU.

It's just that I don't like the fact that the option to play that way has been all but entirely removed in some MUs altogether, regardless of the Kameo. Then there's Kameos that can dismantle it just as bad and on reaction!

I'd imagine not many will agree and there will be those who do, so hopefully we get some good discussion going about it.

Also, I'd take there being more recovery on his projectile if it meant them going back to what they were before. Or if they made it only one shuriken for his regular version and then it throws three for his EX version that are all mids.
 
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M2Dave

Zoning Master
I'd imagine not many will agree and there will be those who do, so hopefully we get some good discussion going about it.
Maybe keep the stars as they are, but change the EX command throw to one bar?

He would be really scary with two bars up close.

Players would actually use him.

I am horrendous with command grab characters, but even I would try him.
 

Eldriken

Life was wasted on you.
Maybe keep the stars as they are, but change the EX command throw to one bar?

He would be really scary with two bars up close.

Players would actually use him.

I am horrendous with command grab characters, but even I would try him.
I never even thought of changing his EX command grab to one bar. I like that idea. In all honesty, THAT is probably the change that should have been made to go along with his projectile nerf. I'd have not said a word.

What is it about command grab characters that makes you say you're horrendous with them?
 

NHDR

Kombatant
I'm not a great Reiko player or anything, but I'm not surprised at the impact of the nerfs. Any time you do a 180 on a balance update, its gonna be bad. He went from having potentially the best fireball to losing every zoning matchup. Often times, the proper balance is somewhere in-between. Now, he's very kameo-dependent, so I don't think he's any higher than mid-tier. Too many struggle matchups.

@Eldriken - curious about his pokes on block. Are you saying, for example, that D4 and B3 into stars can be punished? Even if spaced out?
 

Eldriken

Life was wasted on you.
I'm not a great Reiko player or anything, but I'm not surprised at the impact of the nerfs. Any time you do a 180 on a balance update, its gonna be bad. He went from having potentially the best fireball to losing every zoning matchup. Often times, the proper balance is somewhere in-between. Now, he's very kameo-dependent, so I don't think he's any higher than mid-tier. Too many struggle matchups.

@Eldriken - curious about his pokes on block. Are you saying, for example, that D4 and B3 into stars can be punished? Even if spaced out?
A max range d4 might be iffy to punish, especially depending on your character. A b3? I'm not really too sure about that. I don't use it that often, but now that you mention it, I should go into the lab and check it out and see if it's punishable.

The "hardest" part about punishing his projectile on whiff after a poke on block is making sure you time it right to not get hit by the last star.

Also, out of curiosity: what do you think are his worst MUs and why? I don't ever get to discuss his MUs with other Reiko players.
 
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NHDR

Kombatant
@Eldriken I think I misread your previous post and thought that you were saying that Reiko's pokes into stars could be punished on block, which is why I asked about D4 and B3. Misunderstanding on my part. FWIW, I think Reiko's mid-range and close-range is solid!

As for tough matchups, some may be kameo-dependent, but I'd say Sektor, and Liu Kang are tough now. Both characters also use Motaro frequently, so Motaro's tail shot plus the characters' own projectiles can make long range hell.
 

Eldriken

Life was wasted on you.
@Eldriken I think I misread your previous post and thought that you were saying that Reiko's pokes into stars could be punished on block, which is why I asked about D4 and B3. Misunderstanding on my part. FWIW, I think Reiko's mid-range and close-range is solid!

As for tough matchups, some may be kameo-dependent, but I'd say Sektor, and Liu Kang are tough now. Both characters also use Motaro frequently, so Motaro's tail shot plus the characters' own projectiles can make long range hell.
I honestly don't mind the Liu MU. I do hate when he's paired with Motaro, but I don't ever use my projectiles in that MU anyway. I conditioned myself to not need to because it's pointless with Motaro to begin with.

Sektor was incredibly annoying before the change and is just downright abysmal now.
 

NHDR

Kombatant
I honestly don't mind the Liu MU. I do hate when he's paired with Motaro, but I don't ever use my projectiles in that MU anyway. I conditioned myself to not need to because it's pointless with Motaro to begin with.

Sektor was incredibly annoying before the change and is just downright abysmal now.
Who else do you feel is tough?
 

Eldriken

Life was wasted on you.
Who else do you feel is tough?
I feel Scorpion is a bad MU as well just because of b3. I hate that button. So it may be bias or it's actually considered a bad MU. lol

I honestly don't know how many MUs I feel are bad moreso than me just not liking the MU itself. >.> I don't like many MUs in the game. I don't know why I even play at times 'cause I find myself hating the game a lot.
 

kantboy2

Pale Rider
They will not change the EX command grab meter usage to one because of the high damage EX air grab does.

His stars should just trade; it's fair and balanced.
 

Eldriken

Life was wasted on you.
They will not change the EX command grab meter usage to one because of the high damage EX air grab does.

His stars should just trade; it's fair and balanced.
There is no damage difference between either command grab. They both do 11% normal and 21% when you use meter. His air command grab is absolute gutter trash unless you're damn near on top of the opponent.
 

kantboy2

Pale Rider
There is no damage difference between either command grab. They both do 11% normal and 21% when you use meter. His air command grab is absolute gutter trash unless you're damn near on top of the opponent.
I actually thought it did more than that; my bad.

Still; I don't want them messing with damage/meter to then people complaining and we get an unnecessary nerf on the final ever patch for MK1. Nah.

The problem is the ninja stars; have them trade and no Reiko player would complain.

The EX knee pop up still feels weird. Heh.
 

Eldriken

Life was wasted on you.
I actually thought it did more than that; my bad.

Still; I don't want them messing with damage/meter to then people complaining and we get an unnecessary nerf on the final ever patch for MK1. Nah.

The problem is the ninja stars; have them trade and no Reiko player would complain.

The EX knee pop up still feels weird. Heh.
I'd take them trading. The shit we have now is just dumb.

The EX knee change was unneeded and didn't really add anything other than an alternative combo route that leads to less damage.

I personally think they just threw the shit together last minute and this is the result.
 

Eldriken

Life was wasted on you.
I am so damn tired of people being able to run away the entire match. I used to not care before because I could at least throw my projectile and get in trades or throw off the opponent's zoning. Now? Nope. I can't contest a single projectile in the game and it's especially maddening when the character or Kameo allows them to easily run away.

This nerf absolutely gutted certain MUs and was absolutely unnecessary. I hope they revert the being destroyed change and just make projectiles trade.
 

Eldriken

Life was wasted on you.
So reiko's fatal blow does not work on strings. I get it's a grab, but this is shit.
What do you mean? As in, if you combo them on the ground with 12, you can't combo into FB and it'll whiff? If so, why am I not surprised? Reiko is the most incomplete character in the game. lmfao

Some of the rules don't apply to him like they do everyone else and not in good ways, either.
 

NoCharge

Apprentice
What do you mean? As in, if you combo them on the ground with 12, you can't combo into FB and it'll whiff? If so, why am I not surprised? Reiko is the most incomplete character in the game. lmfao

Some of the rules don't apply to him like they do everyone else and not in good ways, either.
I mean if you do the fb when they whif a string it doesnt grab them, probably because they're in active frames.