How they can turn mk1's image around and bring hype for their next gsme

[TarkatanPeriodontik]

Typing that last paragraph felt really good, we are living in blessed times as fighting game fans. Classic games like VF5, and MVC2 are gonna be crazy at combo breaker this year and there’s some very innovative games coming out in the future.

 

[LEGEND]

I disagree. I think the M rating and the blood and gore are synonymous with MK. It's what people think of when they think of MK and what makes it distinct. Sure, they had the no blood code but that was primarily for tournament. Casuals kept the blood on, beef sets still did brutals and fatals; it's just part of the franchise.

I think the no blood code is a good compromise, but the game would feel very watered down without the gore. I mean even the most casual of casuals associates "Finish Him" with MK.

Not having that would feel terrible.

So just play Street Fighter.

Honestly the best solution going forward would be a standard "no blood code" feature that is more easy to enforce than "make sure you press Up+1 while the match loads" and an international export version with that mode being default. Casuals can fatality each other all they want

 

[Marlow]

I'm curious how much cross-over there's going to be between VF6 and MK1/MK2. They're pretty different games, not just the 2D/3D stuff, but thematically and even historically how they play. On the other hand, of the 2D games I'd argue that MK/NRS has the most in common with 3D games, just being more string based and block button based.

 

[Juggs]

I mostly agree with this. But I think that no matter what, people are going to play and complain about top tiers. There's always going to be a top tier, regardless of balance and power levels. At least at launch. Then, the older the game gets, the more time people spend with it, the roster starts to feel like it opens up and more characters feel viable.

Yeah but the fact that people will always complain no matter what should be even MORE of a reason to try this approach. Because if you can’t please everyone anyway, might as well make a fighting game where every character feels powerful in your hands and are also fun to use. But I’d also want them to be smart about it. Like making the risk/reward make sense for every character. One of my biggest gripes with MK1 is that the risk/reward makes no sense. It’s pretty bad when a UMK3 player where Glitch Jabs exist is complaining about risk/reward in a fighting game, lol

 

[LEGEND]

Edit: this issue of being on par with their competitors while also trying to differentiate themselves is going to be even more pronounced when MK2 comes out if it’s being released 2 years from now when the genre is even more crowded with games like 2XKO (the riot game),

Just talking shit but I think 2XKO is a pipe dream that will flop extremely hard. Game is trying to add every fighting game mechanic ever conceived into one game with assists and tags. There's a reason its been in development for 7 years and doesn't look close to ready for public release. Game direction will need to change (again lol)

Its a shame too cause Rising Thunder is still some of the most fun I've had playing a fighting game. Slight bit more polish and more characters and it could have been one of the GOATs.

 

[TarkatanPeriodontik]

That’s completely fair, but the point stands. I sadly never got to play Rising Thunder!

 

[Marlow]

Yeah but the fact that people will always complain no matter what should be even MORE of a reason to try this approach. Because if you can’t please everyone anyway, might as well make a fighting game where every character feels powerful in your hands and are also fun to use. But I’d also want them to be smart about it. Like making the risk/reward make sense for every character. One of my biggest gripes with MK1 is that the risk/reward makes no sense. It’s pretty bad when a UMK3 player where Glitch Jabs exist is complaining about risk/reward in a fighting game, lol

I definitely like the approach. Make powerful versions of every archtype possible and just go nuts, and throw in an easy defensive mechanic like Breaker just to counter the offense. I do think that Crimson brings up a good point though, it's easy to try and make an "everyone is OP" roster, but you're likely going to launch with horrendous balance and have 4-5 broken characters at launch.

I also think "make every character fun to use but just be smart about it" is kind of the equivalent of telling a dev to git gud. I assume it's implied that they try to make every character fun to use in some way, and make the risk/reward make sense. The problem is that it's very hard to get right.

 

[Eji1700]

Honestly the best solution going forward would be a standard "no blood code" feature that is more easy to enforce than "make sure you press Up+1 while the match loads" and an international export version with that mode being default. Casuals can fatality each other all they want

Honestly I've always wanted them to dive into this a little harder and come up with the "family freindly" brutalities and finishers. Wargods, trash pile that it was, could at least let you uppercut/roundhouse kick someone to the moon as a "finisher". Not nearly as violent, youtube friendly, still a nice (and quick) "lol fuck you" exclamation point on the end of a match.

I think there's some validity to finding more ways to do things like that. Casuals love it and allowing some level of skill in it (like brutalities or babialities) keeps it hype for tournaments.

 

[SaltShaker]

I'm curious how much cross-over there's going to be between VF6 and MK1/MK2. They're pretty different games, not just the 2D/3D stuff, but thematically and even historically how they play. On the other hand, of the 2D games I'd argue that MK/NRS has the most in common with 3D games, just being more string based and block button based.

I think the crossover will be from Tekken to VF. There are a large amount of Tekken players right now begging VF to stay "true to their roots" (no armored supers, no metered enhancements, etc) and they'll jump to VF6 for a more "grounded 3D game". It's pretty much where a lot of disgruntled Tekken players will jump to if it doesn't add a bunch of casual-friendly mechanics.

 

[TarkatanPeriodontik]

I think the crossover will be from Tekken to VF.

I agree. The writing is on the wall re: everything you said. So many legacy players I know from the T7 days have all complained about how different the game has become. And a lot of them are SFIV 09ers who switched to Tekken when SFV came out. Now T8 is out and they are gonna switch games again. Honestly I support it, I’m glad we have choices!

On the other hand, of the 2D games I'd argue that MK/NRS has the most in common with 3D games, just being more string based and block button based.

I honestly agree, I began my MK1 journey after playing a lot of VF5, so using a block button mid dash to reset my input reader to neutral came very easy. I was dash blocking a lot!


I wish strings in MK were more like actual strings, however. Calling them strings is kind of a misnomer although it is what the MK Kommunity has agreed to call them. A true string could be cut short at any button.

edit: just to clarify this, nothing is really being strung together in MK, you input the raging demon command and the whole thing comes out all at once


What MK has is strings that function more like elaborate command normals or raging demons.
it’s cool in that it makes offense extremely commital, like I have to dial the whole string and special and then wait to see if it connected. But there is not any more decision making process involved. It can seem shallow. I liked how the “strings” functioned in the 2D era MK games more, like the gattling/magic series of UMK3/Trilogy.
But an MK made more like virtua fighter with very fast, concise offense and combos and frequent RPS would be amazing! In theory haha

 

[Juggs]

I definitely like the approach. Make powerful versions of every archtype possible and just go nuts, and throw in an easy defensive mechanic like Breaker just to counter the offense. I do think that Crimson brings up a good point though, it's easy to try and make an "everyone is OP" roster, but you're likely going to launch with horrendous balance and have 4-5 broken characters at launch.

I also think "make every character fun to use but just be smart about it" is kind of the equivalent of telling a dev to git gud. I assume it's implied that they try to make every character fun to use in some way, and make the risk/reward make sense. The problem is that it's very hard to get right.

Yeah but again, how is that any different than what normally happens? There’s always 4-5 horribly imbalanced characters on launch regardless. Because it’s hard to thoroughly test all characters competitively without all the competitive players actually testing them. So these 4-5 characters would be balanced out just like always.

And also yes, I am telling NRS to “get good”. It’s actually not terrible advice ¯\(ツ)/¯

 

[Juggs]

This has never worked once in the history of fighting game design. Early MKX + it's DLC were a mess for attempting this, as was DBFZ.

It's impossible to make all characters equally broken. 3-4 chars will dominate, and it ends up being no more fair than the normal way of balancing.

Just because it hasn’t been done yet that doesn’t mean it’s impossible.

 

[exflyingbooty]

At this point just give kitana her normal fan toss that is a fast combo extender if they're airborne and I'll be hype

 

[exflyingbooty]

I think the crossover will be from Tekken to VF. There are a large amount of Tekken players right now begging VF to stay "true to their roots" (no armored supers, no metered enhancements, etc) and they'll jump to VF6 for a more "grounded 3D game". It's pretty much where a lot of disgruntled Tekken players will jump to if it doesn't add a bunch of casual-friendly mechanics.

And they'll be mad because of nitaku and realizing grabs are a three way guessing game lmfao

High level vf is extremely hard and unfriendly

 

[Juggs]

You know, I was thinking about something. I have no idea how plausible or possible this would be, but since competitive balance is always one of the biggest points of contention, I wonder if they could go the extended “beta” route. Meaning they release the game in a beta state at like half price or something, but it only has the tutorial modes, training mode, and the online multiplayer, and that’s it (oh and maybe offline multiplayer as well. That way you could run beta tournaments to really put the competitive balance to the test). And this would be out for a certain amount of time (I’m not sure what would be the right amount of time). And essentially the goal is for the general public to be QA testers and balance testers. Then after the beta time limit is up, they release the full game with all the other features and modes.

The reason I feel like this would be a good option is because instead of releasing a clearly unfinished game but selling and promoting it as if it is one, you instead purposely release an unfinished game and tell everyone it’s unfinished and that it’s just a beta, which is what it would be. I think the feedback would be a lot more universally constructive; there would also be an incentive to give constructive feedback, and since you’d still have to pay some sort of price for this beta, it wouldn’t be as if NRS would really be losing all that much. Because what they would do is when the beta time limit is up, the beta game would no longer work online and wouldn’t receive any more updates, and if you purchased the beta, you would either get a discount code for whatever amount off of the full release of whatever you paid for the beta, or you’d be able to upgrade from the beta for the same discounted price.

This was kind of done with MK1 with the stress test and then the beta (or vice versa, can’t remember which one was first), just on a much smaller scale and shorter time period. Where I believe in the closed stress test, so many gave their constructive criticisms that the game was too slow and also that dash blocking should be added. This feedback led to NRS listening and actually changing the game, making it SO much better by just doing these things. And again, this was such a small time frame, and despite how you feel about MK1 or how it was on launch, it made the full release of the game much better starting out.

Again, I have no idea how the logistics of this stuff would work or if this would be possible. And even if it was possible, that doesn’t mean NRS would even want to do it or try it. But in my opinion, it would be worth it to at least try it ¯\(ツ)/¯

 

[TarkatanPeriodontik]

I wonder if they could go the extended “beta” route. Meaning they release the game in a beta state at like half price or something, but it only has the tutorial modes, training mode, and the online multiplayer, and that’s it (oh and maybe offline multiplayer as well.

This reads like you’re being earnest but they already kind of did that with MK1 besides the half price thing, though the game was heavily discounted I think 30-40 days after its release.

I’m sure there’s a way to do it. A soft beta launch ended up screwing multiversus though, so wb is probably scared off

 

[Juggs]

This reads like you’re being earnest but they already kind of did that with MK1 besides the half price thing, though the game was heavily discounted I think 30-40 days after its release.

I’m sure there’s a way to do it. A soft beta launch ended up screwing multiversus though, so wb is probably scared off

Did you not read the full post? lol

 

[YagamiFire]

I don't think casuals abandoned MK1 because of lack of single player content. MK1 has as much or more content as MK9/MKX/MK11. I think casuals "abandoned" MK1 because they don't like the assists, and Invasions is too clunky and grindy.

The 'single player content' is Invasions...and it's borderline unplayable trash. That is the single player content after clearing the terrible story mode. Casuals had nothing to do.

 

[Juggs]

The 'single player content' is Invasions...and it's borderline unplayable trash. That is the single player content after clearing the terrible story mode. Casuals had nothing to do.

I just really don’t get it. So many people complained about the silly towers in MK11 with all the extra stupid crap that they threw into each fight. That plus the AI being terrible, the fights are super boring and just more annoying than anything. Because they’re made artificially difficult. Making them have way more HP or “defense”, do more damage, then on top of that you have random fireballs flying at you from the sky. Then they made an entire SP mode that had nothing but these annoying ass fights that everyone already complained about and hated in your previous game. And they made them even worse! Like seriously, who actually finds this fun other than Jynks?