How they can turn mk1's image around and bring hype for their next gsme

[LEGEND]

If MK1 just functioned like a AAA title should and had industry standard modes/features/netcode none of the talking points you see on social media or that Tom spout out would even be 1% of a factor.

Passed that, the only thing remaining is to get rid of Fatalities, Brutalities, Animalities and Fatal Blows. We are decades past any of these being shocking or cool. If you still like these things I'm sorry your brain stopped developing. You can still have the MK aesthetic and beloved characters without the gore.

The game needs to be opened up to the rest of the world and for competitive play to have more of a focus. Otherwise it'll always be the unwanted stepchild of the FCG

 

[Marlow]

As Brady has mentioned many times, make the characters BROKEN. ALL OF THEM. Take the best version of the character and turn it up to 11. Adjust the balance after release.

I get that, but when that happens the reaction from the community is "Character X is too good and is ruining the game by making it boring" and then people complain that NRS can't balance their games and that the game was released in a broken state.

 

[Marlow]

One question I think NRS needs to answer is whether they want to be more of a casual FGC title, in which case just get rid of Tag/Assist stuff and go back to the MKX ham and focus on better single player content, or if they want to be more like SF/Tekken Competitive fighters. In which case put fewer resources into single player content and more resources into online lobbies and promoting pro tours and competition.

 

[Vulgar]

SHILLgar

Spoiler

Most characters and kameos have received buffs, so they are in a respectable place. A handful have received significant nerfs and could benefit from frame data adjustments and/or new strings/special moves.

The most recent DLC characters (i.e., Cyrax, Ermac, Ghostface, and Sektor) are particularly well-designed and represent some of NRS's finest work ever. They follow an archetype, have conspicuous strengths and weaknesses, and are high tier, but none is broken and/or braindead.

While power levels were absurdly low for lots of characters yet incredibly high for a handful upon the game's release, the "low power levels" talking point is now obsolete and no longer valid.

Although I would personally love to see more buffs for zoning/defensive characters like Peacemaker and Sub Zero, Mortal Kombat 1 is a fun game if you can tolerate the kameo system.

Fortunately, the "kusoge" days are over.

I'm never going on your podcast, no matter how much you want me to.

Nice try, tho.

 

[Vulgar]

If MK1 just functioned like a AAA title should and had industry standard modes/features/netcode none of the talking points you see on social media or that Tom spout out would even be 1% of a factor.

Passed that, the only thing remaining is to get rid of Fatalities, Brutalities, Animalities and Fatal Blows. We are decades past any of these being shocking or cool. If you still like these things I'm sorry your brain stopped developing. You can still have the MK aesthetic and beloved characters without the gore.

The game needs to be opened up to the rest of the world and for competitive play to have more of a focus. Otherwise it'll always be the unwanted stepchild of the FCG

Just play Street Fighter.

 

[YagamiFire]

if they want to be more like SF/Tekken Competitive fighters. In which case put fewer resources into single player content and more resources into online lobbies and promoting pro tours and competition.

But that doesn't make sense. Both Tekken 8 and SF6 have more single player content than MK1 and do more to support competitive shit.

 

[superbn0va]

he is currently broke with sektor, and was never a bottom tier character even before the buffs.

Kung lao lacks the very basic tools to be a real threat. The fact that he needs to spend meter or kameo to mix-up, pressure (both very basic) and combo makes kung lao very predictable and repetetive in gameplay. IMO A kameo like Sektor won't make any difference in that regard

 

[Tom Brady]

Gonna have to disagree with you here. No one was happy with the, "obnoxious and insufferable" power of on release Deadshot or Deathstroke or MKX on release Tanya/Alien, or many other vanilla versions of NRS characters that were out of pocket strong.

I think releasing a balanced game with interesting character designs is more important than giving everyone looping 50/50s or 0 recovery fire balls or what have you.

I guess what i'm trying to say is a "good balanced" game that isn't fun is actually a bad game. A "broke" game that is very fun and enjoyable is actually a good game.

Could they make a balanced-ish game thats fun? Sure.. just that they havent ever. Its either out of hand and fun for most (not all) or toned down and not fun for most (not all).

To quote Lord Aris back in MK11 - "MK has always been SICK!!... Not always good... In fact, rarely good, but ALWAYS fun.. Until now". I think ppl for the most part feel the same about MK1. Again, definitely not all ppl because there is no such thing as "all" or "every", there are certainly ppl who still enjoy MK1 every day. However, I'd say more ppl than not feel this way atm.

 

[Juggs]

You can make a fighting game where most characters are super strong AND it can also be balanced. For some reason people think “balance” means that every or most characters are mid tier. Where no characters are weak, but none are strong either. This is what causes FG’s to be incredibly boring imo. There’s nothing wrong with a FG where all characters have their own dirt. Imagine a game where instead of trying to make every character mid tier, they instead try to make every character top tier? It’d still be balanced, but it’d also be super fun. Even if the characters had broken shit.

To put it another way, if every character is OP, no characters are.

Why would people not want this approach? Imagine not being competitively handcuffed into only using top tier. And instead being able to use whatever character you want because they all are viable AND fun to use.

 

[YagamiFire]

Why would people not want this approach?

This approach also tends to build a feeling of agency in the player. Feeling strong is good. A good non-FGC comparison relevant right now is Marvel Rivals. Characters tend to feel VERY strong in that game (generally speaking) and playing them feels powerful and awesome. An FGC capturing that kind of feeling is always for the best. In Mvc2, for example, it's not just that the top tiers are strong, it's that they fundamentally play the game better and, in doing so, feel better when playing the game.

 

[SaltShaker]

I guess what i'm trying to say is a "good balanced" game that isn't fun is actually a bad game. A "broke" game that is very fun and enjoyable is actually a good game.

Could they make a balanced-ish game thats fun? Sure.. just that they havent ever. Its either out of hand and fun for most (not all) or toned down and not fun for most (not all).

To quote Lord Aris back in MK11 - "MK has always been SICK!!... Not always good... In fact, rarely good, but ALWAYS fun.. Until now". I think ppl for the most part feel the same about MK1. Again, definitely not all ppl because there is no such thing as "all" or "every", there are certainly ppl who still enjoy MK1 every day. However, I'd say more ppl than not feel this way atm.

Yea, I actually think Injustice got much closer to this than recent MK games from launch+patches too. Both games never reduced the fun and wild factors just did patches that were either great or controversial lol. Inj1 for example you only needed to remove the stupidity that a Top tier had but buff the low tier (i.e. no need for MMH to have a safe, fast, combo starting teleport lol and buff a couple of scrub characters up to those top). In INJ2 yea Fate and Firestorm and Manta or whoever were strong, but they had very specific playstyles so you really just needed to buff the Deadshots of the world than nerf them. Etc.

MK11 and MK1 on the other hand started out "safe", which made their early version of the game much more rough than it had to be. If you look at MK1 now a year later the gameplay isn't even recognizable to 2023. It would have been better for everyone to start like this and then make adjustments after. Hopefully it's a lesson learned for next time.

 

[Marlow]

To put it another way, if every character is OP, no characters are.

Why would people not want this approach? Imagine not being competitively handcuffed into only using top tier. And instead being able to use whatever character you want because they all are viable AND fun to use.

I mostly agree with this. But I think that no matter what, people are going to play and complain about top tiers. There's always going to be a top tier, regardless of balance and power levels. At least at launch. Then, the older the game gets, the more time people spend with it, the roster starts to feel like it opens up and more characters feel viable.

 

[Marlow]

But that doesn't make sense. Both Tekken 8 and SF6 have more single player content than MK1 and do more to support competitive shit.

Maybe for SF finally in SF6. But the huge cinematic story mode, towers, things like invasions/krypt stuff that NRS typically includes in their games, they put a ton of resources into that. For the longest time SF story mode, if they even had it beyond Arcade endings, was a joke.

 

[YagamiFire]

Maybe for SF finally in SF6. But the huge cinematic story mode, towers, things like invasions/krypt stuff that NRS typically includes in their games, they put a ton of resources into that. For the longest time SF story mode, if they even had it beyond Arcade endings, was a joke.

Which has always cost it with casuals where casuals are now far happier with SF6 and are angry at MK for abandoning single player content.

MK also has the (by far) larger casual base. It makes no sense for them to go after a competitive focus...especially when NRS is largely bad at doing competitive shit

 

[Tom Brady]

You can make a fighting game where most characters are super strong AND it can also be balanced. For some reason people think “balance” means that every or most characters are mid tier. Where no characters are weak, but none are strong either. This is what causes FG’s to be incredibly boring imo. There’s nothing wrong with a FG where all characters have their own dirt. Imagine a game where instead of trying to make every character mid tier, they instead try to make every character top tier? It’d still be balanced, but it’d also be super fun. Even if the characters had broken shit.

To put it another way, if every character is OP, no characters are.

Why would people not want this approach? Imagine not being competitively handcuffed into only using top tier. And instead being able to use whatever character you want because they all are viable AND fun to use.

This is exactly the point that I’ve been trying to make for years. If everyone is OP, then no one is OP.

 

[LEGEND]

Just play Street Fighter.

The gore really does not impact the gameplay or aesthetic of MK much imo. I would play SF alot more if there were any cool characters in the game and if I enjoyed the art style.

MK9 and Tekken 8 both achieve a visceral impact for in-game hits, that are much more satisfying than landing an end match brutality in MK1. MK9 was played with the no blood code like 90% of the time and Tekken 8 is rated T.

idk I just think that holding on to the M rating is a net negative. It can still have the dark, brutal style with satisfying combat without it.

 

[Marlow]

Which has always cost it with casuals where casuals are now far happier with SF6 and are angry at MK for abandoning single player content.

I don't think casuals abandoned MK1 because of lack of single player content. MK1 has as much or more content as MK9/MKX/MK11. I think casuals "abandoned" MK1 because they don't like the assists, and Invasions is too clunky and grindy.

Also worth considering that while MK1 has disappointed in sales relative to it's own standards, I think it's still mostly outsold SF6 and Tekken. So it's not like the audience for MK has completely collapsed or anything.

 

[Marlow]

I'd play SF6 more but I'm having a hard time picking up the drive gauge stuff. Seems fun though.

 

[LEGEND]

This is exactly the point that I’ve been trying to make for years. If everyone is OP, then no one is OP.

While I personally enjoy that style of game I think its from a by-gone era that will not translate to a modern success.

 

[Marlow]

This is exactly the point that I’ve been trying to make for years. If everyone is OP, then no one is OP.

I agree, but there will still always be tiers. There will always be a top 5, and people will always complain about the top 5. Or the bottom 5.

 

[Tom Brady]

I agree, but there will still always be tiers. There will always be a top 5, and people will always complain about the top 5. Or the bottom 5.

Of course, tiers are inevitable in fighting games. What Juggs is saying is that if they are all OP then the difference between the very best and the very worst is still minimal because they are all OP

 

[CrimsonShadow]

This is exactly the point that I’ve been trying to make for years. If everyone is OP, then no one is OP.

This has never worked once in the history of fighting game design. Early MKX + it's DLC were a mess for attempting this, as was DBFZ.

It's impossible to make all characters equally broken. 3-4 chars will dominate, and it ends up being no more fair than the normal way of balancing.

 

[Vulgar]

The gore really does not impact the gameplay or aesthetic of MK much imo. I would play SF alot more if there were any cool characters in the game and if I enjoyed the art style.

MK9 and Tekken 8 both achieve a visceral impact for in-game hits, that are much more satisfying than landing an end match brutality in MK1. MK9 was played with the no blood code like 90% of the time and Tekken 8 is rated T.

idk I just think that holding on to the M rating is a net negative. It can still have the dark, brutal style with satisfying combat without it.

I disagree. I think the M rating and the blood and gore are synonymous with MK. It's what people think of when they think of MK and what makes it distinct. Sure, they had the no blood code but that was primarily for tournament. Casuals kept the blood on, beef sets still did brutals and fatals; it's just part of the franchise.

I think the no blood code is a good compromise, but the game would feel very watered down without the gore. I mean even the most casual of casuals associates "Finish Him" with MK.

Not having that would feel terrible.

So just play Street Fighter.

 

[Vulgar]

"Making everyone OP" has never really worked.

Injustice tried to do that very thing. On paper, even a scrub like Solomon Grundy seems super strong, but then you look at vanilla Superman or Deathstroke or Black Adam and realize that Grundy never stood a chance.

A game where "every character is OP" just creates a wider gap between the top tier and everyone else.

And I've never really believed the power level talk about these games, relative to the systems they're interacting with. What is notable is that with each MK, character diversity gets higher. Sure, you're got low tier shitters but welcome to fighting games. There will always be shitter characters.

 

[TarkatanPeriodontik]

, Cyrax, Ermac, Ghostface, and Sektor) are particularly well-designed and represent some of NRS's finest work ever.

That’s what is so bittersweet about MK1! It IS a fun mortal kombat game, it’s really the out of date features, that make it stick out to me.

In T8 or SF6 I just get more matches more often, I can practice while I’m waiting for a match and I can easily friend request other people and play lobbies. Even the casual modes on offer like Tekken ball or avatar battle are actually deep little diversions compared to what MK offers.

One theory I have is if MK1 was ready to ship maybe closer to when Guilty Gear Strive came out in 2020, it would have been better received. The fighting game genre in 2024 however is very competitive, and MK is sorely behind the times when it comes to features. Unless all you want to do is grind kombat league there’s not a lot of fun things to do in the game. The lobby system needs some work. In other fighting games they’ve gone the extra mile to make casual play feel social with chat rooms, avatars, emotes, in SF they even have vintage arcade games on offer in the battle hub where you get casual PVP. You end up turning randoms into sparring partners and friends. The experience of playing MK1 is very lonely comparatively. In T8 or SF I could go to their hubs and play casuals against particular character-users. MK1 online infrastructure is even worse than Capcom Fighting Collection online, a glorified emulator with netcode tacked on afterwards.

MK has netcode alright but it’s like they created the online features without any knowledge of what’s working in other AAA fighting games they’re competing with.

Edit: this issue of being on par with their competitors while also trying to differentiate themselves is going to be even more pronounced when MK2 comes out if it’s being released 2 years from now when the genre is even more crowded with games like 2XKO (the riot game), and Virtua Fighter 6 coming out - both of those are expected to be game changing. MK2 is going to have to take many extra steps to ingratiate itself with new buyers and also offer something different than the 5 or 6(!!!) other options for AAA fighting games we have.