Havik General Discussion

[FeverAyeAye]

Loved kano havik before the patch but after these chages the combo coversion he gets are very fun

And Kano makes neutral much easier, too.

 

[kabelfritz]

i am pretty confident that something is busted with enhanced neck snap. enhanced special moves cost no meter while your controls are reverted, but apparently they cant be canceled into from a string. which would make the whole thing pretty useless.

 

[Fr_stacckk]

i am pretty confident that something is busted with enhanced neck snap. enhanced special moves cost no meter while your controls are reverted, but apparently they cant be canceled into from a string. which would make the whole thing pretty useless.

I think the move after would be ex blood ball , blood ball neoplasm or helping hand , kind of like his final tutorial kombo challenge , my question is are they random each time or is the input scramble the same everytime

 

[kabelfritz]

I think the move after would be ex blood ball , blood ball neoplasm or helping hand , kind of like his final tutorial kombo challenge , my question is are they random each time or is the input scramble the same everytime

its just inverted, like nrs always does this. back is forward, fp is bp, block is stance switch etc.

enhanced special moves will come out raw, but not if you cancel a string into them, like b22~ENdb4 (or inverted: f11~ENuf3)

 

[Plop]

I havent had a chance to play Kaos reins yet, but I'm seeing alot about this necksnap buff and I'm confused. What does it do? What's the benefits of it scrambling MY inputs?

 

[kabelfritz]

I havent had a chance to play Kaos reins yet, but I'm seeing alot about this necksnap buff and I'm confused. What does it do? What's the benefits of it scrambling MY inputs?

enhanced specials cost no meter

 

[FeverAyeAye]

I have a first generation hitbox with a cable. How am I going to flip that around?

 

[kabelfritz]

tbh i dont like what they did to havik at all. this feels like a different character concept. combo routes and mixups are completely changed, db2 is omnipresent in his gameplan while other tools become situational at best and the execution barrier goes through the roof thanks to the EN neck snap "Buff". on the other hand bf2 is still high, as if that was somehow necessary. the only things that were asked for were the better armor and better air options thanks to air db4

 

[PrinceGoro]

@kabelfritz I like all of the changes except the buff,its dumb.The control inversion makes me not want to even lab it fuck that shit.

The whole situation is already specific to have 3 full bars stocked and ready,also the whole infinite EX special moves period is conflated with the actusl use of the base neck snap and thats to get guaranteed additional damage.The time period of the buff is short and if you go in and do the guarsnteed combo the buff passes and you cant spam ex specials.

The only use i see for using the ex neck snap would be to get another free EX bf2 and have theather again for a total expenditure of 3 bars.

 

[kabelfritz]

@kabelfritz I like all of the changes except the buff,its dumb.The control inversion makes me not want to even lab it fuck that shit.

The whole situation is already specific to have 3 full bars stocked and ready,also the whole infinite EX special moves period is conflated with the actusl use of the base neck snap and thats to get guaranteed additional damage.The time period of the buff is short and if you go in and do the guarsnteed combo the buff passes and you cant spam ex specials.

The only use i see for using the ex neck snap would be to get another free EX bf2 and have theather again for a total expenditure of 3 bars.

i have labbed this some more.

EN neck snap does:

• invert your controls
• reduce damage scaling. you do ~300 instead of ~200 from tether combos now

restrictions:

• you can not cancel strings into EN specials. they just wont come out. so the best option is probably to start a combo with (inv) ENdb1. the buff will run out by the end of that combo
• you can not re-tether when neck snap started the combo. but you can re-tether for no bar from a fresh starter during the inversion. have fun doing that though.

 

[PrinceGoro]

i have labbed this some more.

EN neck snap does:

• invert your controls
• reduce damage scaling. you do ~300 instead of ~200 from tether combos now

restrictions:

• you can not cancel strings into EN specials. they just wont come out. so the best option is probably to start a combo with (inv) ENdb1. the buff will run out by the end of that combo
• you can not re-tether when neck snap started the combo. but you can re-tether for no bar from a fresh starter during the inversion. have fun doing that though.

Thats a bummer,yeah i messed around with it a bit.To be fair the damage increase is substantial but the revers inputs are so annoying haha.Looks like the use is getting that increased damage and thats it,apart from the initial free enhanced helping hand the free EX moves are completly worthless.

 

[kabelfritz]

Thats a bummer,yeah i messed around with it a bit.To be fair the damage increase is substantial but the revers inputs are so annoying haha.Looks like the use is getting that increased damage and thats it,apart from the initial free enhanced helping hand the free EX moves are completly worthless.

yup. dont know if a buff ever ruined a character but here we are. im gonna try to learn this shit for a while but thats not the kind of complex that strikes me as fun. might have to drop havik after 5k matches, fuck nrs.

 

[ticklebandit!]

To me the EX neck snap is something I don't even plan on learning. If I really put the time into this character so he's more of a main and less of a secondary I would maybe figure it out for the swag factor and closing games out. But right now its more annoying than it is practical. Lots of kameo's help him get neck snap pretty consistently and I'd rather have the 1 bar for a EX projectile to help get me in again or have a wake up, or just for whatever.

I have yet to take him online after this patch, but I think db2 and air db4 will greatly help him open people up. They also increase his damage quite a bit. Like he hits hard as fuck now with Mavado, Sub, Jax. His damage just on his own has greatly increased. 1 bar 1 kameo call for like 40% is hella solid, especially off a safe launcher (bf1). I may eat these words after I hop online, but for now, these buffs seem pretty fuckin awesome.....not sure what I'm missing..?

I understand its frustrating as hell, but I don't think his EX neck snap buff being buns "ruins him." @kabelfritz. And not trying to harp on you at all man, right now I lack the experience to genuinely agree or disagree, just tryin to instill a little hope i guess, as corny as that sounds out loud lol. I feel like I'm telling someone to look for the positive side of being kicked in the balls

 

[kabelfritz]

To me the EX neck snap is something I don't even plan on learning. If I really put the time into this character so he's more of a main and less of a secondary I would maybe figure it out for the swag factor and closing games out. But right now its more annoying than it is practical. Lots of kameo's help him get neck snap pretty consistently and I'd rather have the 1 bar for a EX projectile to help get me in again or have a wake up, or just for whatever.

I have yet to take him online after this patch, but I think db2 and air db4 will greatly help him open people up. They also increase his damage quite a bit. Like he hits hard as fuck now with Mavado, Sub, Jax. His damage just on his own has greatly increased. 1 bar 1 kameo call for like 40% is hella solid, especially off a safe launcher (bf1). I may eat these words after I hop online, but for now, these buffs seem pretty fuckin awesome.....not sure what I'm missing..?

I understand its frustrating as hell, but I don't think his EX neck snap buff being buns "ruins him." @kabelfritz. And not trying to harp on you at all man, right now I lack the experience to genuinely agree or disagree, just tryin to instill a little hope i guess, as corny as that sounds out loud lol. I feel like I'm telling someone to look for the positive side of being kicked in the balls

its alright, i appreciate your input. its not that you wouldnt have valid points. imo havik is absolutely ridiculous with the buffs right now. but:

• his best damage is locked behind the control inversion. this is not a gimmick, we're talking about 100-300 damage per combo. but 5-10 second long inverted combos, both directions, better be ready when you get your 1-2 chances per match for it? i cant be bothered to learn this nonsense.
• imo it was totally unnecessary to give him a low launcher. nrs did not just do that though, they made it the center of his gameplan. mixups? db2. optimals? db2. armor? db2. it un-diversifies his gameplan and makes existing tools fringe obsolete.

quicker armor and more air options are fine buffs though.

overall i think they did not stay true to the archetype they created in the first place and now hes an albeit powerful mess. i simply dont like his gameplay much anymore.

 

[Vulgar]

yup. dont know if a buff ever ruined a character but here we are. im gonna try to learn this shit for a while but thats not the kind of complex that strikes me as fun. might have to drop havik after 5k matches, fuck nrs.

It's just practice and a fair trade off considering he has ToD's now.

 

[Vulgar]

its alright, i appreciate your input. its not that you wouldnt have valid points. imo havik is absolutely ridiculous with the buffs right now. but:

• his best damage is locked behind the control inversion. this is not a gimmick, we're talking about 100-300 damage per combo. but 5-10 second long inverted combos, both directions, better be ready when you get your 1-2 chances per match for it? i cant be bothered to learn this nonsense.
• imo it was totally unnecessary to give him a low launcher. nrs did not just do that though, they made it the center of his gameplan. mixups? db2. optimals? db2. armor? db2. it un-diversifies his gameplan and makes existing tools fringe obsolete.

quicker armor and more air options are fine buffs though.

overall i think they did not stay true to the archetype they created in the first place and now hes an albeit powerful mess. i simply dont like his gameplay much anymore.

DB2 is pretty unsafe on block, both versions, so I wouldn't be throwing it out there all willy-nilly like that. You can still use his strong strike/throw game, db2 is just another option.

As far as ex tether goes - as others have pointed out - you don't have to use it to be effective. It certainly helps, but off any bnb+normal tether combk you're doing over 50% if they don't break. Is it as good as doing 70% with the inverted controls? No, but that's the trade off. Big reward for a high skill ceiling.

 

[PrinceGoro]

its alright, i appreciate your input. its not that you wouldnt have valid points. imo havik is absolutely ridiculous with the buffs right now. but:

• his best damage is locked behind the control inversion. this is not a gimmick, we're talking about 100-300 damage per combo. but 5-10 second long inverted combos, both directions, better be ready when you get your 1-2 chances per match for it? i cant be bothered to learn this nonsense.
• imo it was totally unnecessary to give him a low launcher. nrs did not just do that though, they made it the center of his gameplan. mixups? db2. optimals? db2. armor? db2. it un-diversifies his gameplan and makes existing tools fringe obsolete.

quicker armor and more air options are fine buffs though.

overall i think they did not stay true to the archetype they created in the first place and now hes an albeit powerful mess. i simply dont like his gameplay much anymore.

Is db2 bloated?

Yes probably it is but idk if i would say it ruins his acrhtype,i mean the character was unfinsihed,it was mkx shinnok on release all over again.

I do agree even though the damage increase from ex neck snap is substantial,its done in such a dumb way and requires 3 full bars.
And it does feel annoying as i was reallt interestd in the buff,it could have been a cool aspect you can use,and now its just as if its not there.It does ruin the fun a bit,i hope it gets reworked maybe even made into a stand alone move not tied to theather and neck snap.

 

[kabelfritz]

DB2 is pretty unsafe on block, both versions, so I wouldn't be throwing it out there all willy-nilly like that. You can still use his strong strike/throw game, db2 is just another option.

As far as ex tether goes - as others have pointed out - you don't have to use it to be effective. It certainly helps, but off any bnb+normal tether combk you're doing over 50% if they don't break. Is it as good as doing 70% with the inverted controls? No, but that's the trade off. Big reward for a high skill ceiling.

just saw ENdb2 is really -17, the move list says its +8 . ok that puts it into perspective a bit and leaves breathing room for f13.

but still, i gotta say i always enjoyed havik as a char with focus on complex strategy instead of complex execution. but even aside of that, the new necksnap just feels thoughtless to me.

well, anyway, ive made my decision. im dropping havik at least for now and see if there will be another rework in the future. keep it up here, havik forums are amazing. meet me at sektor probably .

 

[SaltShaker]

Alright so, how do you get out of the TOD stuff lol I need to know.

 

[PrinceGoro]

Alright so, how do you get out of the TOD stuff lol I need to know.

You don't its guaranteed,it actually breaks armor so you cant armor out on wake up.
you can delay wake up and if he does the unblockable EX snap to catch armored wake up or regular wake up he will miss the reset and have his buff active(inputs reversed).but he doesnt even need to play that game,just wait call ambush kameo of some sort and the pop ex snap and that's it.

 

[SaltShaker]

You don't its guaranteed,it actually breaks armor so you cant armor out on wake up.
you can delay wake up and if he does the unblockable EX snap to catch armored wake up or regular wake up he will miss the reset and have his buff active(inputs reversed).but he doesnt even need to play that game,just wait call ambush kameo of some sort and the pop ex snap and that's it.

This explains a lot. I got armor broken thinking I was getting out of it and was like "wth is this???" after lol. So this sounds, like, kinda stupid then haha. -.-

 

[PrinceGoro]

There is a way to do a double EX neck snap.

With kano the standard setup into EX snap is to call knives as havik does the punch animation of his bf2,from there you can just block and let the knives break armor and then EX snap,or if they didnt wakeup the knives pass and you do the same timing EX snap as the get up.

What you can also do is a pre-emptive bf1 that is coverd by the knives and forces them to block it on delayed or regualr wake up or post armor break knives and then do EX snap.

If there is enough distance from you and the opponent after you do bf1,and you are able to initiate EX snap before the bf1 hits or is blocked the EX snap will get interrupted by the bf1 launch and havik will have his buff active(inputs reversed and free EX specials)but the theather will still be active and you can do another free EX snap.

Heres a video of it,showing you can still convert after:

Watch unnamed | Streamable

Watch "unnamed" on Streamable.

streamable.com

 

[just_2swift]

 

[just_2swift]

 

[just_2swift]