New Era Podcast

[SaltShaker]

I'm with you on Injustice.

I don't usually talk about this stuff, but: I paid for KDZ's registration and game fee after EMP screwed him for a major that he ultimately won. Why? Because I wanted to see good competition there. I sent money to one of our scene's best-known players so that they could go to SCR. And when I noticed that WNF and NLBC were putting on great tournaments every week that weren't being talked about, I started writing articles to help being attention to the weeklies. I even sent bread to NLBC for the pot to try to encourage people to come out.

That's what you do to help to build a scene. If our attitude was "this game isn't as big as SF, so the tournaments can't be any good" the Injustice scene would have died after 3 months.

Every game has the "new game different" troubles. When SF4 came out, a number of notable 3rd Strike players refused to play it. A bunch of people called it scrubby and criticized everything from the comeback mechanics, to option selects. The game was broken, and that's when the whole "pick a top tier" meme started. We forget all this in hindsight. Likewise with T7 > T8 there's been heavy criticism, and top players who just aren't feeling the new game. Growing pains are normal.

When all the MKX money came in (riding the Injustice hype), a lot of people forgot that scenes need to be built from the ground up. Criticising is fine, but you don't need to go overboard to the point that you are only putting out negative content, not promoting any of your events, and literally trying to discourage people from showing up. If the SF5 community didn't make excuses for SF5, we have none for MK1.

I gotta run for dinner, but wanna point out this was probably the best back and forth discussion I've had on this topic in a long while.

 

[M2Dave]

Likewise with T7 > T8 there's been heavy criticism, and top players who just aren't feeling the new game. Growing pains are normal.

Read Knee's tweet and Arslan Ash's tweet about the current state of Tekken 8.

The difference between Namco and NRS is that Namco listens to the critics while NRS largely dismisses them.

In fact, Namco has implemented more changes to Tekken 8 within two months than NRS has to Mortal Kombat 1 in almost one year.

As a side note, I dislike many of the changes to Tekken 8, so I am not biased, but there is no doubt that Namco listened to the majority of the people.

So did Capcom. Street Fighter 6 is one of the most complete day one fighting games ever released, particularly if you consider the humongous amelioration to the online gameplay.

 

[TarkatanPeriodontik]

The anime community never disparaged their community because entrants were low. If Blazblue had 49 entrants, they celebrated the top players who showed up and they still promoted hype for their scene. That's how you build a scene rather than tearing it down.

the anime community has a lot of self awareness, the way melty blood is meme’d by its own community, they say they will run their game off of a busted laptop in a bathroom stall. But anime players definitely split themselves into camps, because new games such as Granblue, DNF, or Strive don’t play like traditional anime games. The old heads by and large stick to Blazblue Central Fiction, Xrd and +R. Those old anime heads did not like the direction strive went in. Some of them messed with Under Night when Strive came out since it’s catering less to new players. Strive was created to unabashedly pursue a new audience, typically scared away by GG’s “hard game” status.

Even though @M2Dave hasn’t heard of it, the UNIS/undernight community in Boston always had a set up with players at the anime weekly there. If anime players love a game they will champion it. If you read this Dave, UNIS is a very forward thinking fighter with its own unique gtfo anime gameplay system. It might be what you’re looking for in a fighting game

Edit: I typed this interjection because anime games have been catching a lot of strays in this MK numbers discourse

 

[rifraf]

Do they? Do they know what went wrong and what went right? That's a legitimate question. Some of the most basic information we don't get sometimes, or end up hearing days, even weeks later after people have been talking online about a topic. If even just the communication was better I think it would help a lot of strife, but a lot of times we deal with ghosting or radio silence (MK11 #NeverForget) that ends up amplifying people rather than calming them. If we had the pre-MK11 communication back maybe certain things would reach the boiling points they do, that much I think is certain, but now it feels like the 180 where no one is really allowed to criticize that is a content person or player has created our new current environment.

That's the actual topic we should be discussing. It's not debatable, but the reasons are. I'm a strong believer that a few things were dumb:

1. Flipping between MK and Inj for a decade was death. I can write a book on this. Easy #1 for me.
2. No legacy is death. It's creates a situation where the new game is always under microscope to the old one because it's revamped and no one will go back to old games. You also can't build on the last game and perfect things because you're starting from scratch again and having to rectify the new issues even after fixing the old ones.
3. Best out of all FGs communication died with MK11 for reasons I still don't understand. Better communication can always address issues before they become bigger or longer. Lesser communication causes things to fester.
4. The "power level" argument is valid. Example , you know what was godlike and super duper fun? Homelander pre-patch (no infinite of course). You know what is a lot less fun? Forcing meter into the great BnBs he had while removing some pressure and fitting him "in" so he has to be optimal the same way everyone else is. If he was "too strong" in that version others should have been brought up to compensate, not bringing him down to their level. If the characters were strong it would also make the kameos more of a compliment to the character which I'd argue and upgrade.
5. Lack of concentrated effort to retain early players. It would take me too long to write on this one as well, but there's significantly less effort to keep potential competitive players who bought MK1 than there should have been, making it easier for them to walk and forget about the game.

Everything you pointed out here, I fully agree with. Idk why they stopped communicating with the community during MK11 because I wasn't around, but it seems to me they may have gotten really sour with the community for some reason. They are using the silent treatment towards us which is a very toxic way of dealing with it, unfortunately.

The NRS model of releasing games is unique in the fighting game genre. On the plus side it's highly profitable for them, it offers their design team and artists a broad spectrum of creativity, and arguably it never gets boring. The obvious negatives are there's very little legacy between games, features may differ wildly, there's no space for a core playerbase to develop.
In another thread, some members suggested for NRS to re-release older MK titles like MK9 so these players can revisit their favourite MK. It's a suggestion. In an ideal world, NRS would have 2 different MK games. 1 legacy, and 1 experimental like they have right now. The problem is NRS is a small studio that has a model that's working for them, in the expense of not being able to expand its core fanbase from game to game. It's a hit they're obviously willing take. Changing their model to a more traditional legacy release seems unlikely imo.

 

[LEGEND]

Here's the best Shang playing in MK9

This is funny. Obviously the clip was going to be WoundCowboy, but I didn't expect it to be:

1. A match that I am literally in the crowd for.
2. At an event where he stayed at my place to attend.
3. Vs my teammate who actually entered that SCR as FR Xblades.

Its unfortune that the match went by so quickly. I think a FT3 would have gone alot longer as Xblades started to get used to the style he was dealing with towards the end there. I probably caused a bit of accidental sabotage here with having such a different approach to the matchup.

Thanks for the nostalgia trip.

 

[SaltShaker]

Everything you pointed out here, I fully agree with. Idk why they stopped communicating with the community during MK11 because I wasn't around, but it seems to me they may have gotten really sour with the community for some reason. They are using the silent treatment towards us which is a very toxic way of dealing with it, unfortunately.

The NRS model of releasing games is unique in the fighting game genre. On the plus side it's highly profitable for them, it offers their design team and artists a broad spectrum of creativity, and arguably it never gets boring. The obvious negatives are there's very little legacy between games, features may differ wildly, there's no space for a core playerbase to develop.
In another thread, some members suggested for NRS to re-release older MK titles like MK9 so these players can revisit their favourite MK. It's a suggestion. In an ideal world, NRS would have 2 different MK games. 1 legacy, and 1 experimental like they have right now. The problem is NRS is a small studio that has a model that's working for them, in the expense of not being able to expand its core fanbase from game to game. It's a hit they're obviously willing take. Changing their model to a more traditional legacy release seems unlikely imo.

Yea good point. The consistency I think would have solved some of the arguments we're having in this very thread. We always talk about MK, but it's the same company that made two amazing games in Inj1 and Inj2. There was slight variation between Inj1 and Inj2, but it clearly was a legacy game between the two versions. I'm not sure it was ever explained why Injustice is a legacy game and MK is a restart game, but the Injustice base doesn't have the same split we see in MK. Most people who love Injustice like both games a lot even if they liked the first better and aren't as harsh about the game or their feedback, whereas with MK there are endless arguments about which one was the best and ruthless criticism because they're all so different from the other and some people want it to play like previous versions.

And to double down there, I think what you're saying is if they did something like say "Mainline MK Games", which are legacy, and then "MK Alt games", which are different. Funny enough, I think it was done already, but in reverse. Imo, MK should have been the legacy game, and Injustice the restart game. But Inj1 to Inj2 was pretty much a legacy game with updates, whereas each MK is very different and unique. It probably should have been in reverse considering we didn't get Inj3 and went from MK11 to MK1. Similar to something like Tekken Tag that comes out every 3 Tekken games and is very different from mainline Tekken. I do hope that in the future even if they removed kameos next game, they build on the MK characters in their current form rather than another redo. Tbh it's not even a fair position to be in if each game is brand new from the last vs building on your last game and enhancing it because you can improve it a lot late stage (like MKX and MK11) but all those improvements are lost when you crack open a brand new game.

But if we do have MK1 for a few years I hope they take some risks with bigger changes like opening up the kameos a bit more so they can feel like stronger versions of variations we used to have being accessible at the same time. Give me a reason to not pair Kano with Homelander. I see no reason why Sektor for example can't have teleport be an ambush or tracking missile be the default half bar. Make Frost Ice Slide and/or Ice Ball an ambush. Darrius half a bar for all kameo usage. Shujinko is loaded at the round start. Etc etc. More things like that that open up creativity and less of the Cyrax "rinse and repeat" style that we hated. Buff these kameos up and make it a little hectic that way, more of that and you won't have to worry as much about Khameleon or Kano bandwagons and more characters will get more out of kameos. I see the intention was making them a more simple version of an assist but I think that is limiting their potential. It reminds me of how much better MK11 was AFTER it was opened up more.

 

[rifraf]

Tbh it's not even a fair position to be in if each game is brand new from the last vs building on your last game and enhancing it because you can improve it a lot late stage (like MKX and MK11) but all those improvements are lost when you crack open a brand new game.

It's... unique. To put it mildly.

On one hand, the core MK scene is crumbling, divided and confused. And on the other end, the franchise is as strong as ever. I wonder why Ed Boon bothers going in all those tournaments, since NRS shows no interest in anything community related. If at some point they want to rebuild trust, they will need to put a lot effort into it. No one likes to be snubbed.

 

[SaltShaker]

It's... unique. To put it mildly.

On one hand, the core MK scene is crumbling, divided and confused. And on the other end, the franchise is as strong as ever. I wonder why Ed Boon bothers going in all those tournaments, since NRS shows no interest in anything community related. If at some point they want to rebuild trust, they will need to put a lot effort into it. No one likes to be snubbed.

Yea and tbh they aren't too far off already. If they make MK2 (or whatever they call it) next, likely kameos are gone, and build on the current core gameplay of the individual characters, keeping what works best and tweaking what needs adjustments, no one can tell me it wouldn't be great as it would literally be an enhancement to the current game with a much bigger window to enhance. This game is a game that is good but can be great. But, if the next game comes in a couple of years and is Inj3 then I dunno haha. We'll be right back here for square one again.

 

[LEGEND]

I wonder why Ed Boon bothers going in all those tournaments, since NRS shows no interest in anything community related. If at some point they want to rebuild trust, they will need to put a lot effort into it. No one likes to be snubbed.

I think the easy answer is that he enjoys it. Nothing further.

 

[rifraf]

Yea and tbh they aren't too far off already. If they make MK2 (or whatever they call it) next, likely kameos are gone, and build on the current core gameplay of the individual characters, keeping what works best and tweaking what needs adjustments, no one can tell me it wouldn't be great as it would literally be an enhancement to the current game with a much bigger window to enhance. This game is a game that is good but can be great. But, if the next game comes in a couple of years and is Inj3 then I dunno haha. We'll be right back here for square one again.

NRS is the epitome of a wild card. You just can't predict their next move.

Once upon a time, back in 2011, they decided to release MK 2011. A complete reboot to the franchise that came out of nowhere. Equally out of nowhere was its success amongst... everyone. It spawned a whole worldwide scene, it got massive sales, the casuals loved it. The natural, most sane step forward would be to build upon this game. What did NRS do? They scrapped everything You can't make this shit up.

The only thing I expect from NRS in terms of future MK releases is that I may love it or hate it.

 

[CrimsonShadow]

This is funny. Obviously the clip was going to be WoundCowboy, but I didn't expect it to be:

1. A match that I am literally in the crowd for.
2. At an event where he stayed at my place to attend.
3. Vs my teammate who actually entered that SCR as FR Xblades.

Its unfortune that the match went by so quickly. I think a FT3 would have gone alot longer as Xblades started to get used to the style he was dealing with towards the end there. I probably caused a bit of accidental sabotage here with having such a different approach to the matchup.

Thanks for the nostalgia trip.

That's pretty cool. It was such a great event, and one of my favorite MK9 tournaments ever.

Like you, I have some personal reasons to be nostalgic for that SCR. Found out a few days before the tournament that both MIT and DJT were not going to be able to drive up and make it. Was trying to figure out how to fix things, because I figured it'd be a shame for two of our best players not to make it, and the tourney wouldn't be the same without Vegas.

Ended up scrambling all over to find a Western Union, got them the bread, they both made the event, and Denzell ended up having that crazy match vs. Wound in Losers Finals where everybody jumped up and exploded at the end. Feels like yesterday, but that was more than 10 years ago.

Here's a thread with the whole crazy situation and how it worked out

 

[SaltShaker]

That's pretty cool. It was such a great event, and one of my favorite MK9 tournaments ever.

Like you, I have some personal reasons to be nostalgic for that SCR. Found out a few days before the tournament that both MIT and DJT were not going to be able to drive up and make it. Was trying to figure out how to fix things, because I figured it'd be a shame for two of our best players not to make it, and the tourney wouldn't be the same without Vegas.

Ended up scrambling all over to find a Western Union, got them the bread, they both made the event, and Denzell ended up having that crazy match vs. Wound in Losers Finals where everybody jumped up and exploded at the end. Feels like yesterday, but that was more than 10 years ago.

Here's a thread with the whole crazy situation and how it worked out

I can't believe this was over 10 years ago, that's awesome. We are getting old lol.

 

[Tom Brady]

Truly mind blowing that ppl have come up with every possible reason why things are they way they are EXCEPT for maybe ppl just do not like the game. Maybe the DE-POWERING of Mk didnt go well. Hoping for the best come Tuesday. Actually excited for MK for the first time in quite a while.

 

[rifraf]

Truly mind blowing that ppl have come up with every possible reason why things are they way they are EXCEPT for maybe ppl just do not like the game. Maybe the DE-POWERING of Mk didnt go well. Hoping for the best come Tuesday. Actually excited for MK for the first time in quite a while.

You should thank people like us sitting in the middle providing constructive feedback, unlike people like you being in constant hyperbole.

So, you're welcome MKTomBrady.

 

[Tom Brady]

You should thank people like us sitting in the middle providing constructive feedback, unlike people like you being in constant hyperbole.

So, you're welcome MKTomBrady.

My friend, I did tons of tech and all kinds of positive content from the 90s-2021, so much content that I did on forums that arent even around anymore LONG before YT. MK11 ended up up abandoned and MK1 thus far has not been a good product. Im not in the middle because MK1 is NOT in the middle. Hopeful for a great patch though because I do want MK to return to being a game with powerful characters again

 

[rifraf]

My friend, I did tons of tech and all kinds of positive content from the 90s-2021, so much content that I did on forums that arent even around anymore LONG before YT. MK11 ended up up abandoned and MK1 thus far has not been a good product. Im not in the middle because MK1 is NOT in the middle. Hopeful for a great patch though because I do want MK to return to being a game with powerful characters again

I'm old, but you're a dinosaur

I get you, but what makes me mad is that you have all this MK knowledge and it all goes to waste because you choose to indulge in hyperbole. I expect more from MKTomBrady. But I digress, I hope NRS has something good for all of us in the next patch.

 

[Son ov Timett]

Brady just preaches gospel bref. Half the cast are incomplete. Has this not been proven by Ermac and Takeda? I'm hoping that the ENTIRE cast gets some love, even if they're a character who doesn't need it. Half the cast need more expression. Too many useless strings or not enough options without Kameo dependency.

 

[M2Dave]

Hoping for the best come Tuesday. Actually excited for MK for the first time in quite a while.

Me too.

The buffs that people are reporting look good.

 

[M2Dave]

 

[rifraf]

Cool podcast guys. I liked Tom's suggestions and your criticisms Dave were mostly fair. I hope NRS keeps on with supporting the game in meaningful ways. I think there's still a lot of work to be done.

 

[Tom Brady]

Cool podcast guys. I liked Tom's suggestions and your criticisms Dave were mostly fair. I hope NRS keeps on with supporting the game in meaningful ways. I think there's still a lot of work to be done.

Its TYM so SOMEHOW they will find a way to say i'm hating on the game in this episode

 

[rifraf]

Its TYM so SOMEHOW they will find a way to say i'm hating on the game in this episode

You're a divisive figure my guy. It is what it is.

 

[Tom Brady]

You're a divisive figure my guy. It is what it is.

I have said since the game launched that it needs power, and a lot more of it.

 

[TarkatanPeriodontik]

.

You have fans on this forum as well, I am one of them.

Your retrospectives and interviews from a while ago are awesome. Like this one:

 

[Subby Z]

Its TYM so SOMEHOW they will find a way to say i'm hating on the game in this episode

Tom I watch you pretty regularly and consider myself a casual but thoroughly enjoy your content even though I’m not a huge fighting game enthusiast but more of an Mk enthusiast.

My problems with this game are outside of the gameplay. I hate what they did with all the characters. Hated the huge changes completely and another reboot with multiverse shenanigans was just not needed.

My problem is this doesn’t even “feel” like a Mortal Kombat game but rather they tried to make something light and fluffy with Liu Kang’s Universe and it doesn’t fit at all.

I feel like this part of the game isn’t talked about enough. They alienated a part of their fanbase.

P.S. you’re right about kameos as well. As a kasual I detest the kameos.