The Sindel/Jax 80% reset and NRS’ fighting game philosophy

[G82Boost]

Aaah the good old days <3..

Jax could do this shit back then too.

These players wouldn’t have survived back then, they want Mk to be a cookie cutter game, excluding 11 it was never that. MK has always been crazy that’s what makes it fun, if they want a ABC game they can go play Sam sho shit like that already exist

 

[xenogorgeous]

fuck this

this shit should be nerfed ASAP ..... anyone who second this and accept this to exist in this game, is such asshole braindead as this stupid exploit stuff itself

with the evolution of social medias and all the comunication channels avaliable today, the developers can be reported ASAP and hot fix this crap quickly, so, no excuses to keep and support this to stay in this game

anyway, fuck NRS for doing such crap Quality Assurance work for this game, lol ! Hours testing this game and selling this thing with this ?

 

[REYTHEGREAT]

I can tell your one of those who want an ABC game

can you now?

 

[Felipe_Gewehr]

MK9 Noob:

MK9 Smoke:

MK9 Cyrax:

MK9 Quan:

None of these characters were considered the best in the game, this is why nerfing shit instead of buffing others is so dumb. You can even throw Johnny cage from mk9 in there too he technically did the same shit.

Noob: only works against sheeva, in the corner, requiring 3 bars and people just casually waiting for that portal to drop.

Smoke: inconsistent. The smoke bomb would sometimes reset, sometimes not. Still dumb and probably unintended, but not easy nor guaranteed.

Cyrax: dumb and OBVIOUSLY unintended, as cyrax got patches trying to nullify his reset on every single major patch of mk9 until they stopped patching the game altogether.

Quan chi: Requires the combo to start with all three bars, otherwise this is just a 35%-something chip damage, which hey, it's not bad at all, but Quan Chi has to let go of ALL his resources and he is an ass character in this game.

None of those are quite the same case with the Sindel/Jax thing here tbh.

 

[Juggs]

MK9 Noob:

MK9 Smoke:

MK9 Cyrax:

MK9 Quan:

None of these characters were considered the best in the game, this is why nerfing shit instead of buffing others is so dumb. You can even throw Johnny cage from mk9 in there too he technically did the same shit.

I understand your point and agree to an extent. But there’s a difference between someone having something really good and just straight up broken. And there’s a difference between having something that has counterplay to it and something that doesn’t.

I of all people agree with the “buff more than you nerf” philosophy. As well as the “only nerf broken things or things that dominate the meta, and these things only need slight nerfs”. But this falls under something that is very clearly broken. And again like I said in a previous post, if it was like the Scorpion + Jax version where it could only be done in the corner and it was a frame perfect reset that was incredibly difficult to time and even more difficult to time consistently, I’d probably be okay with letting it rock. But this Sindel + Jax one is super easy to do. As I said (again in a previous post), I have only used Sindel in her combo trials and story mode and I was able to do this within 5 minutes. Not the entire combo but the reset. Meanwhile with Scorpion, my actual main, it took me hours to be able to get it down twice in a row aka in the same combo. And I still don’t have it down 100% consistently. I can get it maybe 6/10 times if I have been practicing it for like 10-15 minutes. But that’s best case scenario.

Anyway, point is, this is very easy to do and it’s completely inescapable outside of a combo breaker. Also, NRS wouldn’t leave something like this in the game anyway so it’s kind of a pointless “debate”.

 

[fr stack]

Why does ground pound hit multiple times , surely thats what should be removed?

 

[Juggs]

Why does ground pound hit multiple times , surely thats what should be removed?

How would that address the inescapable reset though?

 

[Eji1700]

Why does ground pound hit multiple times , surely thats what should be removed?

That's the most interesting part of the move.

 

[fr stack]

It wo

How would that address the inescapable reset though?

It would make it more expensive and lessen the reps of it

 

[Juggs]

Nerfing Jax when people are already complaining that most kameos aren’t used very much could be bad. Especially nerfing him for what he does with just a few characters. And nerfing Sindel may be bad too.

Maybe this won’t happen, but let’s say another unblockable reset comes up, do you think they should just nerf it every time?
Every nerf is essentially a limitation, and too many limitations make the game boring.

It’s not a traditional nerf imo, especially when what they’d be changing is something that keeps causing inescapable resets. There’s plenty of things they can do, make it not launch, make it a low instead of unblockable as SF suggested, make it cost a full bar of Kameo meter as @haketh suggested, etc. But it’s clear that Jax’s ground pound is the problem, and continuing to nerf the characters that can utilize it is definitely not the play imo. Especially when these characters tend to already be lower on the tier lists.

Regardless of what any of us want, it’s clear to me that NRS doesn’t want this type of thing in this game. Whether you agree with that or not isn’t something you should talk with me about, levy your concerns at NRS. ¯\(ツ)/¯

 

[CrimsonShadow]

It’s not a traditional nerf imo, especially when what they’d be changing is something that keeps causing inescapable resets. There’s plenty of things they can do, make it not launch, make it a low instead of unblockable as SF suggested, make it cost a full bar of Kameo meter as @haketh suggested, etc.

It might just be as simple as changing a circumstantial hit reaction, like some of the things that were adjusted in the last patch.

 

[mrapchem]

What if Jax's ground pound were simply a stun like in MK2 that didn't knock down, but made the opponent like -6 or something with the ability to block follow-ups?

This way the move would still be good with an entirely new purpose in the game, but not lead to anymore resets and whatnot.

It would still be a half Kameo bar and keep all its current properties and frame data.

Thoughts?

 

[Felipe_Gewehr]

What if Jax's ground pound were simply a stun like in MK2 that didn't knock down, but made the opponent like -6 or something with the ability to block follow-ups?

This way the move would still be good with an entirely new purpose in the game, but not lead to anymore resets and whatnot.

It would still be a half Kameo bar and keep all its current properties and frame data.

Thoughts?

It would function as Stryker's restand, then. Not against the idea, but it would perhaps make using Jax over Stryker a little bit redundant?

 

[just_2swift]

If they nerf it just make it like havik neck snap and scale the dmg and cost full bar so it wont loop. Easy fix and you’re welcome.

next.

 

[mrapchem]

It would function as Stryker's restand, then. Not against the idea, but it would perhaps make using Jax over Stryker a little bit redundant?

Isn't the Stryker re-stand a Summon? If it is, then perhaps it makes Jax compelling over Stryker for some characters.

 

[darklightjg1]

I'm all for keeping the setup. Only thing I'd suggest is maybe if the opponent is hit by a true unblockable type of kameo move into a follow-up combo, then slightly increase the meter they gain from the combo, so they'll be guaranteed a break opportunity towards the end if it's going to be that long of a loop.

 

[SixPathsOfHate]

This shouldnt be a massive discussion.
Literally just let the down input register on hit like how your block button is still registered even when taunting. This would let you force splat yourself.

THE END

 

[NoCharge]

MK9 Noob:

MK9 Smoke:

MK9 Cyrax:

MK9 Quan:

None of these characters were considered the best in the game, this is why nerfing shit instead of buffing others is so dumb. You can even throw Johnny cage from mk9 in there too he technically did the same shit.

Does it mean this is ok, though? People are discussing things now because its soon and can be patched out. If this were to be found five years from now, when thecgame was no longer serviced then maybe it would've been another discussion.

 

[NoCharge]

Also, can anyone say with their hand to the heart that after the patch the game is less enjoyable? I, and the majority of people I see talking about it, enjoy the game way more without broken cyrax and raiden damage.

 

[DixieFlatline78]

Also, can anyone say with their hand to the heart that after the patch the game is less enjoyable? I, and the majority of people I see talking about it, enjoy the game way more without broken cyrax and raiden damage.

I have seen such a rise in character variety since the nerf. For me, it's less that they were so overpowering and more that they were the easy and obvious choice for most players.

 

[Felipe_Gewehr]

Also, can anyone say with their hand to the heart that after the patch the game is less enjoyable? I, and the majority of people I see talking about it, enjoy the game way more without broken cyrax and raiden damage.

I still hate that all it did was gut Baraka and cyrax to the point NO ONE ever uses them anymore. Raiden is still annoying as fuck and doing 50% combos with jax/sektor. Johnny is unchanged, as is Ashrah and Kenshi. I've seen zero rise in the use of Reptile, Scorpion, Nitara and Sub-Zero, which are still the bottom 4.

 

[NoCharge]

I still hate that all it did was gut Baraka and cyrax to the point NO ONE ever uses them anymore. Raiden is still annoying as fuck and doing 50% combos with jax/sektor. Johnny is unchanged, as is Ashrah and Kenshi. I've seen zero rise in the use of Reptile, Scorpion, Nitara and Sub-Zero, which are still the bottom 4.

I get bodied by good baraka players still, but I feel outplayed now instead of outgunned. Cyrax maybe got a little overnerfed, but there are still players using him. I see a lot more Reptile and nitara now. Don't know what ur talking about.

 

[Immortal]

He is not wrong about Baraka, i seen maybe 1 in 40 games, almost nobody wants to play him coz why bother when Raiden, Cage and others have WAY better base kit of moves, better kameo synergy and gets higher damage. Cyrax did for Baraka the same as he did for Rain, made him able to compete with top tiers, now he is just another mid tier character which will see little to no tournament play(even before nerfs he was not considered very good for offline tournament play and now he doesn't even exist in that conversation).

 

[NoCharge]

He is not wrong about Baraka, i seen maybe 1 in 40 games, almost nobody wants to play him coz why bother when Raiden, Cage and others have WAY better base kit of moves, better kameo synergy and gets higher damage. Cyrax did for Baraka the same as he did for Rain, made him able to compete with top tiers, now he is just another mid tier character which will see little to no tournament play(even before nerfs he was not considered very good for offline tournament play and now he doesn't even exist in that conversation).

Are you saying baraka/cyrax was fair before the patch? And I'm pretty sure Johny and Kenshi's time is coming. And others. One thing I agree with nrs is no char should do 50+% damage in one hit except maybe using maximum resourses including fatal blow...and except Shao, cause it's his schtick

 

[Trini_Bwoi]

I don't know why this has become such a big deal. Jax ground pound doesn't normally work if your opponent is in hitstun or crouched. There is obviously something wrong with state that Sindel string leaves the opponent in and Sindel's string will be fixed. Jax should not be adjusted because of this at all and the fact that that has even been suggested boggles the mind. Now if NRS wants to fix Jax for the frame perfect launch (I'm assuming this Sindel thing is not frame perfect), there's a discussion to be had there.