Buffs and Nerfs Wish List

[GeoffBedlam]

Sareena's Kia's Blades (bR1/RB) goes away when hit by a Kounter or Punish.

 

[SixPathsOfHate]

General changes - More defensive options. More interactions on block. More back and forth. More importance on resource management.

• Increase I-frames of all kameo reversals. Increase recovery if used as a reversal.
• Kameo reversals now take the entire bar.
• If you have 2 bars and a full kameo meter, you can press Forward+Assist on hit to perform a breaker. 2 bars and your kameo meter will be drained. Your kameo will start charging after 4 seconds.
• 3 bar breaker no longer requires you to have any kameo meter.
• Using the 3 bar breaker will completely restore your kameo meter.
• Reduce HTB protection to 2 frames from 5
• Allow for Kameo reversals after a delay wakeup
• All perfect blocking benefits stay so long as you perfect block the first hit and you remain in gapless blockstun
• Perfect Blocking steals half the meter your opponent gains
• Up block acts the same as low block and can be used at any point during block stun.
• Up block has increased recovery when used during block.
• Perfect blocking/Up blocking lets you do a reversal assist that doesnt drain your entire meter.
• Meter burn uppercut no longer requires the enhance button and can be enhanced by pressing or holding up after a counter hit. Reduce the cost to 1 bar. Can be used in combos so long as the first hit of the combo was a counter hit.
• The only thing that should cost 2 bars in this game is Havik's unblockable.

Sareena

• Neutral assist shuts off meter gain for the opponent when standing on it.
• Back assist has faster travel speed but stays out the same duration. [This makes the sickles go further leaving more time before they return.]
• Flip kick now has air attack invincibility.

Motaro

• Forward assist comes out faster and pops up the opponent if done in a combo
• Back assist drains less meter when held and has regenerates faster.
• Slightly faster meter regeneration speed when using down assist

Subzero

• Neutral assist grants infinite projectile armor instead of projectile invincibility and the duration reduced to 5 seconds
• Armor is removed immediately if applied during hitstun
• Forward assist comes out faster

Darrius

• Forward assist startup is now 30 frames instead of 47
• Back assist has faster meter regeneration speed
• Slightly reduce Darrius hurtbox when doing back assist.
• Neutral assist uses 50% bar and using the follow ups spends the other 50%
• Increase how long Darrius is on the field when doing his neutral assist. If you are in front of him, he will dash to be closer to allow for easier follow ups.

Stryker

• Down assist has a slightly bigger hitbox. Hit reaction of Stryker changed to a stumble instead of a knock up when interrupted
• Remove the combo restrictions from his grenades
• Slightly increase grenade popup

Kano

• Remove the combo restrictions from his back assist
• Neutral assist now inflicts a "crumple" state
• The longer Kano ball is held the more damage he will do. If released at max charge, meter regenerates faster. It gains increased blow back if fully charged.

Sektor

• Increase meter regeneration speed when homing rocket is used.
• Up missile now has a hitbox when going up
• Slightly increase hitbox of forward assist
• Decrease start up of back assist

Goro

• Punch walk comes out faster, less recovery, higher knock up at the end of the attack
• Grab recovery reduced

Shujinko

• Shujinko heals you for a small amount when near him while he's charging.
• Forward assist becomes +2 on block and back assist becomes +6 on block when Shujinko has full meter.

Frost

• Slightly increased travel speed and duration of ice ball
• Punch walk comes out faster
• Ice slam destroys projectiles that touch the wall

Cyrax

• Decrease meter regeneration speed when using neutral and neutral hold assist. Increase damage scaling of neutral assist
• When using net, Cyrax will cast it behind his ally
• Cyrax gets 1 hit of armor when using his bomb assist. Slight faster startup and less meter drain when holding

Sonya

• Ring blast has faster start up and when fully charged, has a faster meter regeneration after use.
• Grab has more pushback
• Neutral assist has increased hit stun

Kung Lao

• Teleport comes out faster and has 2 hits of armor
• Low hat regeneration speed is slightly reduced when letting go of a held hat.

Scorpion

• Back assist has 2 hits of armor
• Overhead attack has more pushback.
• Fireballs are treated as highs and now hit grounded opponents

Geras

• BF3 no longer goes away when using teleport assists

Rain

• Water shield no longer goes away when using teleport assists

 

[Bloodfang]

Unless they first or simultaneously buff some of the characters that struggle even with a reliable kameo and can barely get going without one (Sub-Zero, Scorpion, etc.) overnerfing Cyrax is an issue. I always prefer buffs over nerfs but with all the mains in their current states I feel anything worse than Cyrax being -50 HP and a slight increase in cooldown on Kopters would just cripple too many characters that are already struggling while only being inconvenient to others.

Other than that the only characters I really play enough to feel comfortable talking on would be Kitana, Sub, and Scorp.

Kitana? I think she's pretty good. I think her only area where she could improve to be more in line with other characters is speed. Specifically either startup or recovery frames on certain normals to be a little more safe or just to feel less like I should be one of the fastest characters in the game but I have so much start/recovery that I feel outspeeded. She and Sindel would be pretty insane zoners with a slight (and I mean SLIGHT) buff to their projectiles. Too much will absolutely make them OP but I dunno just normals, strings, fan moves should be slightly faster. imo.

Sub and Scorp my thoughts are connected to each other on. Both NEED some kind of buff badly. Sub is obvious. Scorp is only seemingly viable with one kameo and the most boring to play gameplan he could have. Winning entirely on chip damage alone is not fun for either player.
IMO, Sub has always been a counter/defense powerhouse. That could just be how every friend I've had who played Sub used him though, lol. His damage I'd adjust to between current and beta BUT adjust Ice Clone back to how it was in MK3 & 4 where it was just the best defense/counter in the game.
IF his being more aggressive is because he is Bi Han and not Kuai Liang, then he should be more like his Beta self with Ice Clone still at least a little better than it is now but his damage being on par with everyone else. IF that is the argument though, Scorpion needs to be more defensively capable then, lol.

Scorpion when you play as him feels like a lower tier trash character who with some minor adjustments could be just as good as the other A tier + characters who feel solid and complete without kameos rather than utterly dependent on specific ones like Cyrax just to be A tier competitive. Alot say he is A or higher but just with Cyrax otherwise a B. In a game like this one the A+ tiers should all feel solid on their own with kameos being able to be complimentary and freely swapped around to add variation and utility. Play your character with ANY kameo and mix up the playstyle a bit. IF the character needs specific ones and can't mix it up freely I don't feel they should be placed in the same tier as those who can.

In conclusion, Scorp Buffs I can only hope for (even some and not all of these): B3 special cancel between 1st and 2nd hit, f2 becomes a mid, f3 with how short range it is should be faster like 10 frames not 13, some kind of new 11-13 frame overhead as a b1 command normal, make d3 special cancelable on hit or block (or hell d4 so that button has SOME reason to use it). Are abort cancels during a special (like his ground ex teleport) a meter burn for other characters? I can't remember right now but if others do get move cancels for free his should be like press b,b during it to not attack and his ground ex should just function exactly like his air ex allowing buttons to be pressed after it. I dunno boy needs some help.

Unnecessary Scorp nerfs he's much more likely to get: less chip on the Spin move and given how much NRS wants him to be kept low tier, his active frames will get adjusted so all of his normals are somehow gap punishable, lmao.

 

[Eji1700]

...

With more time on the game, I think my main balance changes would be (similar to before just cleaner looking)-

0. No health change from kameos. I think it's too small of a number to do anything interesting, and the last thing I want is a cast full of Akuma's because everyone takes the really powerful, do everything, kameos and dies in half a hit. I get that's exaggerating, but it's still the same idea.

1. Cooldown nerf to cyrax blades and a look at how it affects damage/scaling.
It's a very good move, and I'm fine with it being good, but it's silly when compared to say, goro up punch. The biggest issue is that it's overshadowing his bomb move, which is by far the more interesting option, so I think a small nerf to get people to do bomb setups more should be healthy.

2. On similar logic of it overshadowing the rest of his kit, a small tweak to lao hat.
Cd again seems like the main lever to tweak here because I think it's fine to have a really good move like that, but when you're never touching his other moves it seems almost silly.

3. Related to lao hat, I think a general buff pass over other kameo cd's and usefulness would help.
I like goro because he's got two "ok" moves in punch walk and toss, and one amazing move in up punch, but with a hellish cd. If you're just relying on up punch you play half the match without kameo meter, so finding uses for his other tools is great because it leaves you with access to his up punch when you really need it. I think a similar logic for some characters, and more aggressive tooling for others like kano, would help make them more attractive choices. Kano really is a great example when looking at kano ball vs lao hat and what it's costing/netting you.

4. Buffs.
I know there's a couple of characters who are certainly seen as weaker, like reptile, but still have someone putting up half decent results with them so far (honeybee), so touches for them wouldn't hurt. I only really know sub, and the kit sure feels unfinished and I think that's because of the last minute nerfs breaking some of his core tools. I think the big focus should be on the "knowledge" issues that don't show up early in a games life but the dedicated mains already know about. Thinks like smokes cancel/subs "pressure"/etc being fake/risky but not a ton of people are abusing yet.

Of note, rain is an odditiy in that I think moves like his portals should probably be better, because they're really interesting, but I'm not sure how that's going to affect his overal game since he seems to have a pretty strong one not using them.

5. Nerfs.
I feel like the kameo nerfs would affect the entire top tier heavily and probably be enough. IF there was more needed, i'd prefer very small tuning nerfs. I don't think any of the top tiers is so oppressive (so far) that we need to break their legs (at least considering kameo nerfs first), and if we can instead get more characters near their power level it'd be healthier for the game.

 

[Gito666]

I just wish Sub was good

 

[mrapchem]

General Shao

make axe f1 a mid and do nothing else

Fuck yes. The character is a buff away from being Strong.

 

[kabelfritz]

Give Nitara a real voice actress

i'm sure they are way too scared to hurt megan foxs pride to do that. even though they ruined a character we will probably not see anytime soon again.

 

[ShaolinGunFu]

- a projectile parry is an essential component of NRS era human smoke, unless cyber smoke is coming for kameo this was a huge design flaw. Motaro is my kameo, and I understand he has one, but Shake is a specific type of parry quintessential to modern human smoke

 

[Eji1700]

i'm sure they are way too scared to hurt megan foxs pride to do that. even though they ruined a character we will probably not see anytime soon again.

To be a little fair, it's not like a better voice actor is suddenly going to make her interesting. Everyone has been "liuized" since it's the liu kang universe, so they're all just misunderstood or fighting for what they think is right. It makes sense in the plot but it's almost funny that the only outright evil people seem to be Shang/Quan (which uh...sure fucking would be if i was sent to the mines by god), and oddly, Sub Zero.

 

[kabelfritz]

To be a little fair, it's not like a better voice actor is suddenly going to make her interesting. Everyone has been "liuized" since it's the liu kang universe, so they're all just misunderstood or fighting for what they think is right. It makes sense in the plot but it's almost funny that the only outright evil people seem to be Shang/Quan (which uh...sure fucking would be if i was sent to the mines by god), and oddly, Sub Zero.

well, aside from megan fox, the way NRS tapped into any form of potential backstory of nitara/vaternus is a joke. i dont think she was liuified, shes really not that different from MKDA; but there are like 2-3 sentences about her background in the story which is way too jobber-ish.

 

[SixPathsOfHate]

well, aside from megan fox, the way NRS tapped into any form of potential backstory of nitara/vaternus is a joke. i dont think she was liuified, shes really not that different from MKDA; but there are like 2-3 sentences about her background in the story which is way too jobber-ish.

I swear Nitara was at the bottom of the list for returns and the last character to be worked on. She aint got no love.
Her VA is trash
Her kit is wack
Her backstory is basically non-existent

Simply having the name Nitara was enough to get the starving Nitara fans to buy the game. Nitara literally feels like a marketing tactic first, character second.

 

[Bloodfang]

When was Nitara ever not a gimmick first and a character second? And ruined? They never put any work into the character. Her story is totally true to her origins. In fact, it's one of the least changed ones in the game so if you were a fan of her original backstory than you got that? She had less characterization and plot in MKDA than Hsu Hao and Dramin, lol. That's just sad. Other than that she's been represented as being effortlessly surfboarded into a saw hat by Kung Lao who then was effortlessly killed minutes later? Her old Moves? She never had much of an identity there either. She spit blood, flew, and clawed. All back. All still poorly and unoriginally implemented. I WAS hoping that if they HAD to bring her back they would at least make her non-generic with blood moves like Scarlet or hell, like Killer Instinct's Mira (IMO the least generic and most interesting to play vampire character in any fighting game). But no she's still just a vanilla, basic bitch, phoned in Vampire trope. Now voiced by Megan Fox so she even SOUNDS plain when she talks. At least she's got Megan's face so she's pretty... they gave her something. ugh. She honestly feels to me like the only "wasted slot" character in the game because if they needed to bring her back instead of better characters they could have at least put some thought into her and made her actually better. I mean, ok, she's arguably better than in MKDA or the Mortal Kombat movie but that is a very low bar, sorry vamp fans.

 

[Digestia]

I wish Havik had a fast mid, F4 isn’t very fast and is non-hit confirmable. But i’d honestly be fine with D4 being more plus on hit. It’s only +9, which is lower than like every D1 in the game. Shao and Havik are the only characters that have a D4 that’s less than +14 on hit (10 and 9 respectively).
Shao can at least jail a S2 from his D4, although it’s not the easiest thing. Havik however cannot jail any buttons from his D4 besides a F4, which is not hit confirmable. This is due to D4 having pushback on hit, which wouldn’t be an issue if it was more plus on hit.

He’s very fun to play but it seems like every other character can enforce their buttons after landing D4 when Havik cannot.

d4 isn't there to give you advantage (though it still does, at the range you should want to use it). The reason it's +9 is a weird decision to make you want to use your other pokes close up and plays into his f4 and b2 frames. d4 feels more like a frustration tool to make your b22 hit more in the midrange. If you've ever fought a good Shao you'll understand how useful it is.

 

[xenogorgeous]

Damn, such a lot fo good suggestions here by TYM members

This thread is one of the best ever created so far for MK1 gameplay and moveset mechanics, when discussed in serious way .... keep going with this ultra high quality level here, fellows !

Yep, I know that MK1 is only 1 month old inside its life cycle, but the discussion about nerfs and buffs seems pretty much very relevant , so, a lot put here make a lot of sense ..... let's hope NRS see this anyhow and make something

Cyrax Kameo seems to be a bit abusive, so yeah, I think almost all suggestions said in this thread regarding him, stands and are valid

Sub-Zero demands a huge overhaul , he looks like crap and is a shame such iconic character to be relegated to low tier already in this game .....

Scorpion strings are a fucking joke, he needs help as well

And Mileena not having a full screen projectile is just another fucking joke coming from the developers ..... who was the fucking dumbass asshole in charge that took that final decision and put that in the game ? Just fire that dickhead , damn you !

And sure, nerf the fucking god damn Raiden combo damage, is not fun seeing that , and is totally unbalanced seeing Ninja Killa doing touch of death using this shit, lol !

 

[Bloodfang]

Damn, such a lot fo good suggestions here by TYM members

This thread is one of the best ever created so far for MK1 gameplay and moveset mechanics, when discussed in serious way .... keep going with this ultra high quality level here, fellows !

Yep, I know that MK1 is only 1 month old inside its life cycle, but the discussion about nerfs and buffs seems pretty much very relevant , so, a lot put here make a lot of sense ..... let's hope NRS see this anyhow and make something

Cyrax Kameo seems to be a bit abusive, so yeah, I think almost all suggestions said in this thread regarding him, stands and are valid

Sub-Zero demands a huge overhaul , he looks like crap and is a shame such iconic character to be relegated to low tier already in this game .....

Scorpion strings are a fucking joke, he needs help as well

And Mileena not having a full screen projectile is just another fucking joke coming from the developers ..... who was the fucking dumbass asshole in charge that took that final decision and put that in the game ? Just fire that dickhead , damn you !

And sure, nerf the fucking god damn Raiden combo damage, is not fun seeing that , and is totally unbalanced seeing Ninja Killa doing touch of death using this shit, lol !

Yeah, honestly about Mileena, I haven't played too much of her even though she's definitely in my top 5 favs in the game. My one major takeaway was that she felt really fun and I love her as an acrobatic, speed based grappler-esque type character. The grab moves in throw strings and especially the ExRoll, ExSaiToss, and ExTelekick ones are so viceral and satisfying to land. But as much as I love the new auto-command grapple follow up to ExSaiToss, having that also being the only way to get even close to full screen on her Sai Toss just felt kinda dumb. Other than that range issue with Sai/Low Sai she feels like such a fun character that I definitely at some point will put in the work to be good with instead of just berserk, yolo moves into command grabs, lmao.

 

[just_2swift]

Leave cyrax as he is. It's not his fault the other Kameos aren't worth picking.

Buff the kameos to compete instead of nerfing one.

If cyrax is gutted players are going to go lao then the witch hunt continues. Rinse and repeat till the kameos are neutered - this will kill the game.

Also inb4 "you play cyrax" no I use goro.

Also kenshi shouldn't build meter during sento block strings.

Kenshi sento when hit his meter drains faster till it wakes up. ----- or each sento move depletes his meter similar to zato from guilty gear or atrocitus from ij2

Nitara her heals need an increase.

Nitaras specials should heal her similar to Rangna the blood edge from BlazBlue.

I have more ideas.

 

[zerosebaz]

Give Reptile his old forceballs.

 

[just_2swift]

Reptile—— EX cloak now applies a damage buff.

this would give the move more utility while at the same time plays into the fear of reptile going invisible. Would definitely fit the character.

 

[Shawi]

Geras

Not had any representation for Geras here so......super interesting character that is quite well balanced but really fun to play. Here are a few suggestions:

1. 1000 base hp (up from 950).
2. Update d1 animation - easily the worst d1 in the game, practically useless at the moment.
3. Reduce hourglass charge (Countdown) start-up frames from 71 to 51. Currently can be punished full screen on reaction by some characters.

Also, Enhanced Sandstorm feels rather wasted and not practically useable. Not sure what can be done to change it though.

 

[Bulletz4Breakfast]

Reduce HTB protection to 2 frames from 5

It is 2 frame HTB protection currently. The issue is sometimes 2/20 times the protection doesn't work and you can do a 2 frame HTB.
If you set it up in lab, use Lao Kameo low hat with Mileena or anyone with a overhead and set it up to hit low first and second and rerecord until it's crazy close. If you block the low(first hit) you will see the character auto block the overhead without standing. That's the NO HTB protection.
But the game is very glitchy and I've found several ways to break the game rules of specific moves, functions, moves and mechanics.

I slightly moved backwards to change the timing of hat and overhead to 2 frames.
You could use this to auto guard against Mileena/Laos HTB if you see the hat is placed right outside of D4 range.

 

[SixPathsOfHate]

It is 2 frame HTB protection currently. The issue is sometimes 2/20 times the protection doesn't work and you can do a 2 frame HTB.
If you set it up in lab, use Lao Kameo low hat with Mileena or anyone with a overhead and set it up to hit low first and second and rerecord until it's crazy close. If you block the low(first hit) you will see the character auto block the overhead without standing. That's the NO HTB protection.
But the game is very glitchy and I've found several ways to break the game rules of specific moves, functions, moves and mechanics.

I slightly moved backwards to change the timing of hat and overhead to 2 frames.
You could use this to auto guard against Mileena/Laos HTB if you see the hat is placed right outside of D4 range.

I want it to be 2 frame HTB. I thought it was 5 frames after Tom Brady mentioned.

 

[Bulletz4Breakfast]

I want it to be 2 frame HTB. I thought it was 5 frames after Tom Brady mentioned.

It is 2 frame protection. Brady is wrong if you get hit by a 1 or 2 frame HTB link it's a glitch for sure, I asked the game testers.
I've confirmed it in lab. But with how buggy the game is maybe my copy is different than yours?

Not gonna lie I did a water beam cancel, + Cyrax call + 11xxBF[1](full charged water beam) into BF4xxF32 with rain and got it to do a 2 frame link where it was very hard to block. It was a glitchy. Had it on record and it went back to auto block 18/20 times. But when I set it to 1 frame on same setup it blocked every time, and other buttons and characters always blocks the 2 frame.
I'm sure there is other glitches with how many I've found so far, but being honest there are so many Rain glitches with his portals that are not good for him.

 

[John_NX]

Leave cyrax as he is. It's not his fault the other Kameos aren't worth picking.

Buff the kameos to compete instead of nerfing one.

If cyrax is gutted players are going to go lao then the witch hunt continues. Rinse and repeat till the kameos are neutered - this will kill the game.

Also inb4 "you play cyrax" no I use goro.

Also kenshi shouldn't build meter during sento block strings.

Kenshi sento when hit his meter drains faster till it wakes up. ----- or each sento move depletes his meter similar to zato from guilty gear or atrocitus from ij2

Nitara her heals need an increase.

Nitaras specials should heal her similar to Rangna the blood edge from BlazBlue.

I have more ideas.

Cyrax should definitely not stay the way he is right now. People get rewarded for doing unsafe things with meter + chip. It's completely braindead, and should have never existed in the first place.

 

[ShaolinGunFu]

There is nothing more certain than cyrax robocopter move needing a nerf, the question is how hard to nerf it. Literally every game in tournament is block string- cyrax ad infinitum.

 

[Immortal]

Lets not forget about Lao Kameo, Low hat needs to be normalized the same time as Cyrax, so we won't see people just switching from one to the other.