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Sub-Zero General Discussion

Dankster Morgan

Dankster Morgan

It is better this way
Bulletz4Breakfast said:
Yeah I'm hearing from DAB and a few pro players that they plan on doing a character patch to fix some characters. Hopefully it's slight fixes for Sub instead of a bunch of Major buffs/ adjustments.
If they make him super good the community will shift from Baraka/Cyrax is broke to Sub Zero.
I just want him to be good and have a better clone that you can hit them into. I'm fine if they make clone go away if you throw them into it, maybe give him a 13f mid starter
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Just do beta Sub! Mother fuckers! I’d respect them more if they’d just outright say they overcorrected. He was fine as he was if they plugged the gaps in his jab strings
 
Amplified$hotz

Amplified$hotz

I like Tekken 8
Dankster Morgan said:
I am so bored and unmotivated to play the game lol
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I was labbing Ashrah’s f3 to see if Sub could punish it. He can’t… an instant overhead that leads to 30%+ (with kameo) can’t be punished. There’s quite a few things like that in this game. And sub-zero has NONE of them.

He can barely punish things, yet he’s the probably most punishable character in the game.
 
Dankster Morgan

Dankster Morgan

It is better this way
Amplified$hotz said:
I was labbing Ashrah’s f3 to see if Sub could punish it. He can’t… an instant overhead that leads to 30%+ (with kameo) can’t be punished. There’s quite a few things like that in this game. And sub-zero has NONE of them.

He can barely punish things, yet he’s the probably most punishable character in the game.
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You have to punish Mileena EX sai with B34 as well. Eat shit if you’re not using Sonya or Goro I guess.

Not only is he bad a punishing things, it’s where he gets most of his damage.
 
Amplified$hotz

Amplified$hotz

I like Tekken 8
Dankster Morgan said:
You have to punish Mileena EX sai with B34 as well. Eat shit if you’re not using Sonya or Goro I guess.

Not only is he bad a punishing things, it’s where he gets most of his damage.
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Exactly. Speaking of punishes, he doesn’t get much from an anti airs either. Baraka, Raiden, etc. can standing jab anti air into 30%+. At best sub-zero gets f12 bf2.
The character just isn’t playing MK1.
MK1 is a broken game, and Sub-Zero has none of the broken stuff.
 
Amplified$hotz

Amplified$hotz

I like Tekken 8
One more complaint. On top of Sub-Zero’s moves being full of gaps, unsafe, and low damage…

His moves are very slow compared to the rest of the cast. It makes it a pain to wish punish and challenge some characters. Or to convert off of stray hits.

Seriously, next time you’re playing a Kung Lao, Johnny, Liu Kang, etc. look at how fast their moves advance them and allow them to whiff punish and stagger pressure too.

Ashrah can check you with a fast high that reaches 1/4 screen.

P.S. Giving slide standing frames also made it more reactable in my opinion.
 
Dankster Morgan

Dankster Morgan

It is better this way
Kiss the Missile said:
Would you guys prefer if Sub was buffed to play a more defensive game, or a more offensive one?
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I'd love him to be a better defensive character. But the klone and F1 nerfs make me think they don't want him to be able to do that. I don't think they're humbe enough to just revert him back to beta Sub, so they'll probably buff his offense.
 
Dankster Morgan

Dankster Morgan

It is better this way
Amplified$hotz said:
One more complaint. On top of Sub-Zero’s moves being full of gaps, unsafe, and low damage…

His moves are very slow compared to the rest of the cast. It makes it a pain to wish punish and challenge some characters. Or to convert off of stray hits.

Seriously, next time you’re playing a Kung Lao, Johnny, Liu Kang, etc. look at how fast their moves advance them and allow them to whiff punish and stagger pressure too.

Ashrah can check you with a fast high that reaches 1/4 screen.

P.S. Giving slide standing frames also made it more reactable in my opinion.
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Good thing they nerfed his mid, THANK GOD his mid is 15 frames, he would have ruined the game with that godly 12 frame mid. If he could have even a fraction of a chance of taking his turn after landing a poke, or blocking something -, he'd be able to use that BROKEN -7 mid string and maybe cancel it into his BROKEN UN-PUNISHABLE klone cancel.

You made a typo of whiff punish as "wish punish" but I urge you not to edit, it applies. Cause you wish you could punish.

Ashrah is safer raw dogging an armored wakeup than Sub is canceling a blocked string into klone or using one of his jailing jab strings off a connected D1. Is walk back BF2, walk back Klone, instant jump forward klone, or spam DF4 our entire game plan when we don't wanna give up our turn immediately or put our head on the chopping block?
 
Amplified$hotz

Amplified$hotz

I like Tekken 8
Also why do some projectiles like kameo Lao hat, frost ground blast, or even Reiko’s slide go through klone? You base our characters moveset around this one move and it’s not even consistent.
Lol it’s taking everything in me to not be as toxic as Sikander toward the devs, because the decisions around this character have me like “wtf…”
 
Dankster Morgan

Dankster Morgan

It is better this way
Amplified$hotz said:
Also why do some projectiles like kameo Lao hat, frost ground blast, or even Reiko’s slide go through klone? You base our characters moveset around this one move and it’s not even consistent.
Lol it’s taking everything in me to not be as toxic as Sikander toward the devs, because the decisions around this character have me like “wtf…”
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Sikander goes pretty nuts sometimes but he plays Sub every day for like 5 hours in front of people so he has my respect for that alone, it sounds miserable.
 
Bulletz4Breakfast

Bulletz4Breakfast

Sub Zero
Dankster Morgan said:
Sikander goes pretty nuts sometimes but he plays Sub every day for like 5 hours in front of people so he has my respect for that alone, it sounds miserable.
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Oh yeah Sikander gets nasty a lot. He is very good with Sub though. He was freaking out about the nerfs for a week then got shown some tech that allowed him to get around Subs issues then said Sub was good. Now he is back to Buff Sub on Xeets.

I would like Sub to be defensive instead of offensive. Clone not going being ignored and punishable by literally everything would be sufficient and plug his 12/21 starters so he can take back his turn from D1.
Maybe some sort of damage buff where he doesn't have to spend 3 bars to get 10% less than the top tiers that do 50% easy meterless.

I'm fine with plugging up weaknesses with Kameos but basic fundamentals like D1 into jailing high starters needs to be fixed.
I still don't understand why they gave him a great clone on Beta and took it away on day 1.
I know Kenshi, And others did insane stuff on Beta and none of them received the Sub Zero treatment.

Also Subs F124 low ender has a gap does 5% and knocks down. There are characters with safe if not neutral resetting low starters/launchers that have no gap.
At least Sub doesn't have as many holes as Li Mei. Christ I was liking her, felt she was A+ tier until I discovered all her holes. She can still play MK1 just wish she had better neutral. Same issue I have with Sub, his buttons are horrendously bad and no true staggers to at least fake it.

But I'll be eagerly waiting on some adjustments to Subs core gameplan. Until then I will probably use Shang and Mileena and Raiden.
God I picked up Raiden a few days ago and felt like I was God Tier and I know I'm not that good
Has insane Korner Karry and with Jax Gotcha Grab has some pretty sick combos into stuffing wakeup Armor

Let me see if I can find it in my X profile or PS5
 
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Amplified$hotz

Amplified$hotz

I like Tekken 8
F0xy was in Tom Brady’s stream chat saying that ice ball is slow because Sub-Zero has bf2 and ground freeze.

I told him those moves are good not great, especially when you factor in the rest of sub-zero’s Kit.

To which he responds “klone toss is one of the best projectiles in the game.”

I like and respect F0xy as a player, but I think he’s wrong on this. And I just hope NRS isn’t listening to stuff like that.

The concern trolling with with Sub-Zero community is getting kind of annoying.

Edit: This character is a joke! https://x.com/ic4ntbestopped/status/1709989940702884320?s=46&t=hSkiyIrskk7H7tDvqotbpg


 
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BanTheTesters

BanTheTesters

“My AGENT is tougher than you...”
Moderator
Dankster Morgan said:
Which skin are y’all rocking?

I use the default skin with that dark cyan and white palette and mask-less.

Sub is top tier for drip at least
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Im using the default skin with the color palette of the current seasons skins plus maskless..makes him look like a totally different character lol
 
Bulletz4Breakfast

Bulletz4Breakfast

Sub Zero
Amplified$hotz said:
F0xy was in Tom Brady’s stream chat saying that ice ball is slow because Sub-Zero has bf2 and ground freeze.

I told him those moves are good not great, especially when you factor in the rest of sub-zero’s Kit.

To which he responds “klone toss is one of the best projectiles in the game.”

I like and respect F0xy as a player, but I think he’s wrong on this. And I just hope NRS isn’t listening to stuff like that.

The concern trolling with with Sub-Zero community is getting kind of annoying.

Edit: This character is a joke! https://x.com/ic4ntbestopped/status/1709989940702884320?s=46&t=hSkiyIrskk7H7tDvqotbpg


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Ask Foxy to do a Sub Zero guide show how to play him and circumvent his weaknesses.
If Foxy is saying some of subs tools are strong there must be something there. I've never known Foxy to talk about projectiles without knowing every trade, negated projectile and what counters every fireball in the game.
I also think Sub is bad but it's possible I don't know the right tech to fix my gameplan with him.
I was thinking Sindel was a very good zoner and Foxy showed how easily you can beat her zoning with Kitana/Lao Kameo, I was very surprised.

But I feel ya, he seems pretty bad and has so many flaws. Just wish the top players would publicly share their tech early like Sonic/Rewind has.

This has happened in so many NRS games. Remember when Dvorah was nerfed to bottom tier and for months like twice as long as this game has even been out every top player claimed she was trash. Sonic found tech, shared it and won majors with it.
Cetrion had some of the slowest moves and projectiles and look what Dragon did.
Same with Kitana and Joker both saved by Tech and small adjustments.

I'm hoping something is done to slightly plug subs gaps and make him more fun to play. Some sick corner carry potential with multiple clones would be awesome. If he hit for 500 in the corner I could get something going for sure. Just need 12/21 gaps plugged. These changes I don't feel are OD or will drastically make him obnoxious.

With the dirt I've seen in MK9/X/1 I don't understand why so many people are afraid of clone. I mean throws into clone is strong but who doesn't have HTBs with Kameos in 1
 
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Dankster Morgan

Dankster Morgan

It is better this way
Amplified$hotz said:
F0xy was in Tom Brady’s stream chat saying that ice ball is slow because Sub-Zero has bf2 and ground freeze.

I told him those moves are good not great, especially when you factor in the rest of sub-zero’s Kit.

To which he responds “klone toss is one of the best projectiles in the game.”

I like and respect F0xy as a player, but I think he’s wrong on this. And I just hope NRS isn’t listening to stuff like that.

The concern trolling with with Sub-Zero community is getting kind of annoying.

Edit: This character is a joke! https://x.com/ic4ntbestopped/status/1709989940702884320?s=46&t=hSkiyIrskk7H7tDvqotbpg


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I can agree that BF2 is one of the best projectiles in the game and saying that in a vacuum isn’t a problem but in context it pisses me off as if a half screen projectile excuses why Sub is so ass
 
Amplified$hotz

Amplified$hotz

I like Tekken 8
Bulletz4Breakfast said:
Ask Foxy to do a Sub Zero guide show how to play him and circumvent his weaknesses.
If Foxy is saying some of subs tools are strong there must be something there. I've never known Foxy to talk about projectiles without knowing every trade, negated projectile and what counters every fireball in the game.
I also think Sub is bad but it's possible I don't know the right tech to fix my gameplan with him.
I was thinking Sindel was a very good zoner and Foxy showed how easily you can hear her zoning with Kitana/Lao Kameo, I was very surprised.

But I feel ya, he seems pretty bad and has so many flaws. Just wish the top players would publicly share their tech early like Sonic/Rewind has
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I hope he makes one. I’m all ears, but I don’t think he has anything.

For like the past two weeks people keep saying Sub-Zero is fine but they’re not competing with him.
 
Amplified$hotz

Amplified$hotz

I like Tekken 8
Dankster Morgan said:
I can agree that BF2 is one of the best projectiles in the game and saying that in a vacuum isn’t a problem but in context it pisses me off as if a half screen projectile excuses why Sub is so ass
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Characters that have as good or better projectiles to me: Reiko, Lao, Liu Kang, Tanya, Kenshi, Sareena, Kano, frost, rain, Havik, Shang Tsung, motaro, sektor. Maybeee Scorpions spear.
 
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E

Eji1700

Kombatant
The big thing to me is that slide just… doesn’t make sense.

If I need to stay half screen and throw clones, fine, but this feels like older fighting game stuff. The kind where they make a grappler which sucks but turns out they’ve got great buttons so you just push those or whatever.

slide leaving you right next to them strikes me as that’s where he’s supposed to be, but as it stands it feels like a trap and you’re better off ending In something else because he’s weak there.

And I mention slide because in literally every other game it pushed them away from you, which is what sub wanted. He might have a viable strat but I don’t think he’s working as intended
 
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