MK12 Speculation

[Eddy Wang]

They can even keep the MK11 model and improve to a gameplay that doesn't feel like it's on a leash, but for the love of god, do not bring back auto filling meters and regen fatal blows, game needs to have some consequences.

What i really want it's a fine balance of strengths and consequences between offence and defense with some things that worked well on previous MK games, while others can take some tweak here and there.

And fully fleshed characters, enough of these variations bullshit.

Other than that, i think training mode wise, and tutorial wise, NRS as peaked fighting games, what they do from what they achieved mechanicalwise in MK11 it's just polishing.

 

[Ptehu]

I just wish that the story (whatever it is - GKL era, new era etc.) is NOT chapter-based.

As it's degrading cool bad guys to the level of mindless jobbers that lose every fight they take.

 

[Juxtapose]

I just wish that the story (whatever it is - GKL era, new era etc.) is NOT chapter-based.

As it's degrading cool bad guys to the level of mindless jobbers that lose every fight they take.

Keep in mind it's not Chapters that does that, it's that in Story Mode, you never get to play as antagonists. You always play as "good" or "neutral" characters, so the "bad" guys have to lose.

This did change with "Aftermath' though, in which you finally got to play, and win, as bad guys.

 

[Marlow]

I remember playing True Crime: Streets of LA, and they used a sort of branching storyline, where there were multiple points in which the story could branch off depending on what happened with a mission. Could be kind of nice to have a storyline like that for MK. Add 3-4 inflection points. Probably a lot more work though.

 

[Law Hero]

Keep in mind it's not Chapters that does that, it's that in Story Mode, you never get to play as antagonists. You always play as "good" or "neutral" characters, so the "bad" guys have to lose.

This did change with "Aftermath' though, in which you finally got to play, and win, as bad guys.

Gonna have to disagree here. The chapter system (in its current state) forces a character to fight five or so matches in a row, and they always win. This makes the power levels all whack, and forces bizarre fights that don't make sense, and the chapter character always beats the other characters whether it makes sense or not. It's just bad.

They need to make a story mode where you play whatever character is currently on screen, and maybe make it so that even if you win the fight, the character can still lose after. I know they don't do it because people want to learn a character for a bit before switching, but still. I've said it before and I'll say it again, story mode was a mistake and probably the worst thing to happen to the MK franchise. It ruins everything about the characters and lore because of its restrictions, and is a giant money and time sink that steals resources that could be used to enhance the gameplay and extra modes.

 

[Marlow]

and maybe make it so that even if you win the fight, the character can still lose after.

So for example, I'm playing as John Cage, and I'm fighting against Sub Zero, and I win, but then there's the story cutscene where I lose? Is that what you're advocating for?

I've said it before and I'll say it again, story mode was a mistake and probably the worst thing to happen to the MK franchise.

I get where you're coming from, but NRS cinematic story mode has become one of the hallmarks of the genre, and has been a boon to the franchise. It's wildly popular, especially amongst casuals who make up the majority of the sales. So much so that now we're seeing other franchises like SF follow suit. I don't see NRS scaling their story mode back anytime soon, unless it's a resources issue.

 

[Law Hero]

So for example, I'm playing as John Cage, and I'm fighting against Sub Zero, and I win, but then there's the story cutscene where I lose? Is that what you're advocating for?




I get where you're coming from, but NRS cinematic story mode has become one of the hallmarks of the genre, and has been a boon to the franchise. It's wildly popular, especially amongst casuals who make up the majority of the sales. So much so that now we're seeing other franchises like SF follow suit. I don't see NRS scaling their story mode back anytime soon, unless it's a resources issue.

I understand that it's popular and it makes a lot of money and all that, but as a lifelong fan of the MK franchise, I can't ignore how detrimental these story modes have been.

Go all the way back to deadly alliance where konquest mode was created as a way to teach players the game while adding some extra lore/story/character development. Then in Deception, that mode was enhanced greatly to being an open world game with some combat where you could learn the game, experience the story, and get extra Info on characters and lore. Then in Armageddon, it became its own thing with its own unique combat mechanics in addition to the regular fights. Finally, in MKvDCU, we got the story mode with a focus on cutscenes with some fights sprinkled in. And the evolution ends there. The only real difference between then and now, is the quality of the cutscenes.

The evolution of the MK storytelling vehicle has been stifled for over a decade, and even worse, has likely become so expensive and time-consuming that other single player options have suffered. I know it makes a lot of money and it's not going away any time soon, but I hate what is done to the franchise. There are so many other avenues with which we can experience the Mortal Kombat story, but we're just stuck with the same suffocating story mode every time.

 

[The Hex Man]

Have no expectation they'd bother going back into the 3D space considering how the 3D-era went and it not being their shtick, but just in case: same. Not my cup of tea. Have tried 3D-era MK, Tekken, and Soul Calibur. Not a fan of any of them in the slightest.

To chime in on the meter situation some have touched on, I'm gunna be controversial and say that I loved the split meter. Could remove the regenerating aspect and I'd be down with that (more similar to 9/X, especially reintroducing First Hit Bonus). I think the split meter has a ton of room for growth so it'd be a shame to see it replaced with the old standard, boring, easily responsible for most balance issues in 9/X meter system. Some ideas so yall can see what I mean on split meter:

1. Remove regeneration. Reintroduce First Hit Bonus. Make taking damage add to defensive meter, make dealing damage / hitting on block add to offensive meter.
   1. Still split 2/2. Could make it to where the first bar regenerates, but you have to manually build to the second one. Maybe just defensive bar regenerates up to the first. Lots of options to define game flow.
2. Certain specials can be defensively amplified, others offensively amplified, a select few can do both at once.
   1. Defensive amplifications can add things like armor, defensive buffs after use (think IJGAU Grundy), healing / leech on damage (think MK11 Skarlet), further knockback, greater distance on blinks / teleports, temporary debuffs to enemy's offense on hit, etc.
   2. Offensive amplifications can add the standard things like damage, additional hits, juggling, safe(er) on block; but can also add things like longer knockdown timer for oki, bleed bonus damage after (like certain MK11 KBs), temporary debuffs to enemy's defense on hit, etc.
   3. Moves where you can amplify via both could have unique properties when spending both bars. Maybe a parry that only works on mids/overheads can now parry lows and grabs too. Maybe a delayed trap attack no longer goes away when you're hit or block when it's arming.
3. Some situations could introduce temporary meter regen akin to wall break in Guilty Gear Strive. Losing a round could grant a few seconds of defensive meter regen at the next round start. Landing a super / X-ray / Fatal Blow could grant offensive meter regen for a few seconds. Getting hit by an opponent's breaker could grant offensive meter regen for a few seconds. Landing a KB could grant one bar's regen depending on the KB type.
4. Combo Breakers (breakaway begone.. please) could be similar to the 3D-era days where you have tokens but also include scaling cost. You still have a limited # of them for a match (4 total), but also have the stipulation of needing the prerequisite defensive meter to use. First breaker could be free, second breaker costs 1 defensive bar, third and fourth breakers cost 2 defensive bars each. No more past that (you should be 100% dead by that point anyway).

The world is NRS' oyster with split offensive/defensive meter. Super cool idea that's quite unique against other games' usual meter systems.

Dude this is the type of information and ideas I used to love on this site. This is a good Post. Great ideas right here

 

[Juxtapose]

Gonna have to disagree here.

And I'll agree to disagree .

This makes the power levels all whack,

The only fight in the entire modern trilogy that's "whack" is Kitana beating Shao.

I get where you're coming from, but NRS cinematic story mode has become one of the hallmarks of the genre, and has been a boon to the franchise.

^This. It's always possible they'll change the format as they've been doing this now since Mortal Kombat vs DC Universe, but Story Mode has done overwhelming good for the franchise, not bad.

Go all the way back to deadly alliance where konquest mode was created as a way to teach players the game while adding some extra lore/story/character development.

The problem here is it's the 3D era. All Mortal Kombat media tends to avoid said era, and for good reason. It's the low point of the franchise.

 

[Law Hero]

And I'll agree to disagree .



The only fight in the entire modern trilogy that's "whack" is Kitana beating Shao.



^This. It's always possible they'll change the format as they've been doing this now since Mortal Kombat vs DC Universe, but Story Mode has done overwhelming good for the franchise, not bad.



The problem here is it's the 3D era. All Mortal Kombat media tends to avoid said era, and for good reason. It's the low point of the franchise.

I think you may have just forgotten just how many terrible fights there are. Sonya beating Raiden, Stryker beating Goro, Sheeva, and Kintaro back-to-back, and Kung Jin beating Kotal (I know some people don't mind, but you can't deny it's contentious). That's just off the top of my head, but go through the games, and there's a bunch that just don't make sense. That's not to mention the opposite, where a bunch of characters just become eternal jobbers because they have no real part in the story.

That being said, we'll agree to disagree on everything EXCEPT the last statement. Being part of an era that has a negative reputation is not an argument against good ideas. Just because a game is terrible or unpopular does not mean that every aspect of it is irredeemable or that you should do the polar opposite of it. The purpose of my post was to show that, beginning in the 3D era, the single player modes were constantly evolving to better tell stories and add extra content that didn't just involve the main fighting system.

The story mode in its current format was fun for a game, but there are so many problems with it that have not been addressed, and for lore fans like me, it really sucks that what used to be an integral part of the Mortal Kombat experience has taken a backseat to what amounts to a 3D movie each game to tell the story.

 

[Pizza]

One of my favorite fights was when Johnny was being annoying, so Jax got so pissed off that he beat him to a pulp because he wouldn't shut up

 

[Nickolaidas]

One of my favorite fights was when Johnny was being annoying, so Jax got so pissed off that he beat him to a pulp because he wouldn't shut up

I hated that. It was so blatantly obvious they didn't know how to think of a story-related reason for the 4-fights the character must have, so they did that.

 

[Juxtapose]

I think you may have just forgotten just how many terrible fights there are.

Nah, I remember them just fine.

Sonya beating Raiden...

Raiden let her win. That was very obvious.

Stryker beating Goro, Sheeva, and Kintaro

He actually fights Reptile, Mileena, Kintaro, and then Ermac. It's Cyber Sub-Zero who fights Sheeva and then Goro and Kintaro after he removes Kano from the equation in a cutscene.

Kung Jin beating Kotal

As I've said before, Kung Jin is a properly trained Shaolin, and a relative from the Great Kung Lao's family. The Shaolin have proven their ability as skilled kombatants time and time and time and time and time again. Jin beating Kotal is 100% plausible. The problem with Kotal is people's perception of him and trumping up his "power level" and justifying his continual bad decisions. Or put more simply, people constantly overrate Kotal.

Just because a game is terrible or unpopular does not mean that every aspect of it is irredeemable or that you should do the polar opposite of it.

While that is indeed true and done right, I agree that it could be good, I just don't expect that's how it will turn out. Mortal Kombat: Deception is considered the "best" of the 3D era, and it's Konquest Mode is really bad. It's new characters were also really bad.

The 3D era solidified my complete abandonment of the franchise until Mortal Kombat (2011) came along, so if they did go back to it, that would give me serious pause on continuing with the franchise now. I firmly stand by my opinion that the 3D era is bad and should not be revisited. Ever.

and for lore fans like me, it really sucks that what used to be an integral part of the Mortal Kombat experience has taken a backseat to what amounts to a 3D movie each game to tell the story.

I'm a huge lore fan as well, and the original trilogy was pretty basic in terms of story. The modern trilogy and it's story conventions and methods have been a resounding success. A little tweaking to the format would address many of your concerns, as would more consistent writing and maturing of the characters personalities.

 

[Juxtapose]

One of my favorite fights was when Johnny was being annoying, so Jax got so pissed off that he beat him to a pulp because he wouldn't shut up

And yet when Johnny went to tell Jax that Jacqui had enlisted, Jax broke his jaw. Clearly, Jax does have a temper and Johnny is good at pressing those buttons.

 

[Afk Skinny]

Eh chapter system absolutely should disappear. Supposedly great/ threatening fighters don't end up doing anything (justice for Noob). And the scaling is honestly all over the place, Kitana gets her ass kicked along side Jade by Sonya, but can somehow take on Smoke and Johnny at the same time. An injured Takeda and Jacqui holding off Earth's greatest undead warriors plus Sindel.

And more 3d reps. A lot of them didn't even get a real chance to do anything. If you asked younger me pre-NRS era if I would ever want Stryker or Sheeva back, that would be a thunderous NO, but MK9 sparked some life into them. Hell even 3d era sparked some new life into trilogy characters like Ermac, Kabal, Sindel, Noob, Jade, and especially Mileena. Characters aren't always instant hits and they need to be worked on. If they can take story and lore beats from 3d era, then they can try to re-invigorate some long gone characters and actually diversify the roster a bit

 

[Ptehu]

Not sure how anyone can justify in any way Kung Jin beating Kotal. That's the part of the story that should never happen. And to be fair, I kinda like Kung Jin. Always thought he was quite good addition to the cast and I really don't mind having him in the next MK game.

 

[Marlow]

I used an AI chat bot to figure out the plot to MK12, here you go. This is obviously 100% guaranteed accurate, so sorry to ruin the suspense.


In mortal Kombat 12, The tournament takes place in a world where death has been temporarily suspended, and no one is able to die. The combatants, however, are still able to feel pain and injury, and the battles are still just as intense as before.

Kai, a skilled warrior, enters the tournament with the deep sense of despair and hopelessness. He has lost all motivation to fight, as he believes that there is no real consequence to the battles.

As the tournament progresses, he witnesses the pain and suffering of his fellow kombatants, and begins to see the value of life in a new light. He realizes that life is not about avoiding death, but about finding meaning and purpose in the face of it.

Through his battles and introspection, Kai finds peace with his own mortality, and comes to understand that death is an inevitable part of life. He uses his skills to teach his fellow kombatants that life is valuable precisely because it is limited, and that the pursuit of glory and victory is meaningless without a sense of purpose.

As the tournament comes to an end, Kai emerges victorious not because of his martial prowess, but because of his wisdom and understanding of the true nature of life. He leaves the tournament with a renewed sense of purpose, determined to use his newfound knowledge to help others find meaning in their lives.

 

[Nickolaidas]

Not sure how anyone can justify in any way Kung Jin beating Kotal. That's the part of the story that should never happen. And to be fair, I kinda like Kung Jin. Always thought he was quite good addition to the cast and I really don't mind having him in the next MK game.

One of the main disadvantages of the story mode template NRS uses, and one of the main reasons people didn't respect Kotal.

 

[Juxtapose]

Not sure how anyone can justify in any way Kung Jin beating Kotal.

Not sure how anyone can continually downplay a Shaolin and continually up play Kotal, but it happens all the time.

 

[Trustful_Whale]

Not sure how anyone can justify in any way Kung Jin beating Kotal. That's the part of the story that should never happen.

Why?

 

[Nickolaidas]

Why?

Because if a rookie shaolin kombat kid can beat the ruler of Outworld (the next Shao Kahn), anyone can.

 

[Juxtapose]

Because if a rookie shaolin kombat kid can beat the ruler of Outworld (the next Shao Kahn), anyone can.

You're undervaluing Kung Jin's training and skills too much, and overvaluing Kotal's significantly.

 

[Pizza]

I used an AI chat bot to figure out the plot to MK12, here you go. This is obviously 100% guaranteed accurate, so sorry to ruin the suspense.


In mortal Kombat 12, The tournament takes place in a world where death has been temporarily suspended, and no one is able to die. The combatants, however, are still able to feel pain and injury, and the battles are still just as intense as before.

Kai, a skilled warrior, enters the tournament with the deep sense of despair and hopelessness. He has lost all motivation to fight, as he believes that there is no real consequence to the battles.

As the tournament progresses, he witnesses the pain and suffering of his fellow kombatants, and begins to see the value of life in a new light. He realizes that life is not about avoiding death, but about finding meaning and purpose in the face of it.

Through his battles and introspection, Kai finds peace with his own mortality, and comes to understand that death is an inevitable part of life. He uses his skills to teach his fellow kombatants that life is valuable precisely because it is limited, and that the pursuit of glory and victory is meaningless without a sense of purpose.

As the tournament comes to an end, Kai emerges victorious not because of his martial prowess, but because of his wisdom and understanding of the true nature of life. He leaves the tournament with a renewed sense of purpose, determined to use his newfound knowledge to help others find meaning in their lives.

Sounds very in-character for Kai tbh

 

[Law Hero]

lol imagine if Kung Jin had actually finished off KK after beating him (as KK intended). All those dudes in the background halfway through building the giant statues in KK's likeness would be pissed. Actually, imagine being literally anyone in KK's court as you watch him fight some rookie Shaolin in public, lose, then willingly offer up his life, essentially throwing away everything he and his allies worked and bled for over the last 25 years.

I refuse to believe someone at NRS DOESN'T have a giant hateboner for old KK. Kotal has a great design, but he's such a bitch in story mode(s).

 

[Rice]

Kung Jin is a Shaolin Monk and the oldest of the "Kombat Kids".

If Liu Kang can beat Shao Kahn then it shouldnt be farfetched that Kung Jin can beat Total Yawn.

But yeah it was too early in the story and in terms of storytelling NRS is terrible in building up characters.